Autopsy Hawks vs Cats - Do the autopsy here.

[Cursed Cat]

I can't help but think it's all my fault.

I figured that a Cat had 9 lives, and this being number ten their chances had run out.

But what I didn't think of is there are 22 Cats in that team. So this streak has just begun. 188 more to go....

I dont reckon this talk of 'curses' and '9 lives' helps much - my little brother, passionate Hawthorn supporter, shredded a Geelong scarf pre-game thinking it would help
It's all superstitious bullshit - we're just a better club
I might ask him for some scarf shreds as a momento to celebrate The 10.

 

[Hand]

I'm thinking that I'm to blame for the 10 losses in a row.

For I was at York Park in Round 4? 2007, where Hawthorn beat Geelong. I was on holiday in Round 17, 2008, when we narrowly lost in the biggest home & away game of that year. Was Hand present at the 08' Grand Final? Yes. In the front row on the wing, to be exact. My 14 year old voice would've been heard by our soldiers that day, giving them that extra motivation to get over the line.

Coincidentally, I haven't been to a Hawthorn vs Geelong game since. I'll be doing everything in my power to be at the G' in Round 15, in all my voice. the.streak.will.end.

 

[Hawkie_McHawkHawk]

Another thing that irks me about the side is when we have someone running towards goal from 50 out why do they look for a pass every time?Whats wrong with kicking the goal from 50 out?The forward line is giving nothing so kick it over their heads and make them make the most of any opportunity that comes their way.Clinton Young is a squib but at least he could raise his eyes and have a shot instead of kicking to 3 on 1 pop star or big soft roughy.Speaking of Roughy,what is wrong with this bloke?He is a piss ant in a grizzly bear body last couple of years and i'd seriously consider giving him a rest in the 2's for now.

Someone has to nip this shit in the bud but again it seems the coaching staff think they can flick this imaginary switch again and she'll all be right.

Seems like finishing second when they should have won last year is good enough

agreed about roughead, in 2008 he looked as though he was developing the belief he needed to be an elite forward, but ever since he kicked 8 goals against carlton in '09 he has dropped off and never got his confidence back.

in 2008 he was a monster who had vice grip-like hands in marking contests but these days to me he looks like hed rather not mark it so he doesn't have to deal with the stress of expectations having a shot on goal.

so frustrating because you know if he had the attitude of some of the geelong blokes he could be a world beater

 

[Rev08]

Righto, I've just watched the replay after being at the game on Monday and here are my thoughts (without mentioning the obvious like Mitchell was good, Hill was amazing etc etc) having had time to calm down:

* Ben Stratton was amazing. Back to some of his best work from 2010. Some goal saving defensive work.
* Schoey looked like a different player. Seems to be growing in confidence, and his defensive effort on Hawkins in front of the Hawthorn faithful in the 2nd quarter would have done wonders for him.
* Isaac Smith has copped too much on this forum considering his output. Granted he was quiet in the third quarter, but was of our better midfielders for the day.
* Savage has plenty of work to do to be best 22 for mine. If picked this week should be given a run with role on either Pearce or Hill.
* Why was Puopolo moved from the midfield in the second half? Seemed to be our best player to half time, then spent a lot of time up forward after that. Strange.
* Max was our best big man and Hale wasn't as awful as some are making out.
* After Lewis passed the ball off just before quarter time he was barely sighted. The Cats players went to him at quarter time, and unfortunately he didn't respond as we would have hoped.

Plenty of work to be done, but from an individual player point of view, it is not as doom and gloom as some are making out. Of course from a mental point of view, it is.

 

[QuietB]

Hawks are just dumb. They have been beaten 10 times in a row by Geelong now and except for the ones where the Cats led from the start every game has basically been identical.

1. Hawks take no defensive marks - Cats take plenty
2. Buddy gives away cheap frees and 50's all game
3. Hawks refuse to take responsibility for kicking at goal - if you are good enough to hit a target amongst geelongs zone you are good enough to kick it between two sticks 6.4m apart.
4. Hawks continue time and time again to kick long balls to outnumbered forwards who are not capable of marking the thing even if they weren't outnumbered.
5. Geelong smash the hawks over the back in the second half EVERY SINGLE TIME. They know its going to happen, we know its about to happen, and no one does anything to stop it happening. Every game is the 08 GF in reverse. We taught them how to do it FFS!

We are just plain dumb.

 

[Hodge is God]

Assuming he was suspended then?

Did you forget about Mitchell hitting Varcoe? Nothing wrong with that one either, but hey, if you dislike one you dislike the other.

And what does a players age have to do with anything?

Slightly off topic but loving your sig

 

[Jayd19]

One thing out of Monday's , game we won't have many clubs lining up offering to make Buddy a $1mil + pa player at the end of the year on that performance.

Unlike goldfish and some "supporters" on here, opposition clubs are capable of remembering more than just his most recent game and having some regard for the 159 he played before that. Seriously the crap posted on here about buddy is embarrassing. Every year buddy has a game or a few games where he falls short of the very high standard expected of him and idiots jump on him. He is entitled to get the best deal he can. Anyone that thinks players should be loyal to the club or the jumper when the club would cut any player in 1 second who ceases being useful is naive about the way the game works these days. Enjoy watching an all time great play for the hawks while you can.

 

[Skeppersap]

Skeppers, ease up.

Chappy (biggest nugget on the ground) tried to take out the smallest, lightest guy on the ground. He did it well, but it was the softest target chapman could find. I did think he had more courage than that.

There are not a huge amount of chances that a player gets to lay a solid hit on someone in the run of play. Chapman was approx 1 step too late. No doubt he meant it, but Hill cut us apart in the first quarter. Why not target him?

If we are talking about big guys picking on small ones (and therefore apparently gutlessness), what about 6 foot 6 (????) Franklin on Selwood when he wasnt expecting it. What about everyones love child Rioli, who took out Taylor Hunt after the kick with 13 minutes to go in the second quarter. That was just as bad and late as Chapmans. But no........it is just Chapman who is gutless..............

By the way, I am not trying to troll here. Just trying to understand if it is just the pain of the loss or do posters here genuinely believe that Chapman is cowardly?

 

[toomanysquibs]

By the way, I am not trying to troll here. Just trying to understand if it is just the pain of the loss or do posters here genuinely believe that Chapman is cowardly?

I don't think anyone with their brain in gear would think that he was.

I'm not sure the hit connected properly though did it? A minute later Hill was celebrating Franklin's goal.

 

[TAITA]

I'm not sure the hit connected properly though did it? A minute later Hill was celebrating Franklin's goal.

What the ****?

Do not give that campaigner oxygen on this board for a start.

 

[Phil McCreviss]

There are not a huge amount of chances that a player gets to lay a solid hit on someone in the run of play. Chapman was approx 1 step too late. No doubt he meant it, but Hill cut us apart in the first quarter. Why not target him?

If we are talking about big guys picking on small ones (and therefore apparently gutlessness), what about 6 foot 6 (????) Franklin on Selwood when he wasnt expecting it. What about everyones love child Rioli, who took out Taylor Hunt after the kick with 13 minutes to go in the second quarter. That was just as bad and late as Chapmans. But no........it is just Chapman who is gutless..............

By the way, I am not trying to troll here. Just trying to understand if it is just the pain of the loss or do posters here genuinely believe that Chapman is cowardly?

Are you looking for some Chapman love on the Hawthorn board? Hang on a sec. Just let me ask your board if Franklin is a a great bloke too. What a pointless bloody exercise. Really.

 

[toomanysquibs]

What the ****?

Do not give that silly oxygen on this board for a start.

Firstly, apologies if I have. But that's a fact about that guy - he was just doing what our guys would have done.

I never said that I liked Chapman, just that he's not a coward. Big bloody difference. Do I like him – not at all, far from it. A lot closer to hate.

And that's a legitimate question, Hill was up and about smiling a minute later, and on the replay it looks like Chapman was not entirely committed to the hit.

Wasn't there to see, so I'm asking the question - did he actually nail him anyway?

 

[Adebisi]

Gutless is a derogatory term. You would use it if he dogged a contest, pulled out of running with the flight of the ball (remember that hit he took at Etihad?) etc. He doesn't shirk a contest and never has. He had a shi* GF as did Roughead and Hodge. Because Hodge underperformed in the GF is he gutless? No, he had a cra* day.

When we needed Lewis in the Adelaide prelim (as captain), he created goals at the death. One knock on to Rioli that ended up with Franklin for a goal. So he has performed in big games. It's because the Geelong game is fresh in your mind that you forget what some of our boys have done in the past. They are one game from turning this around, how about getting behind them instead of taking pot shots?

I think souther urchins comment makes perfect sense. His point is the word 'gutless' comes in different forms. And he was pointing out that JL needed to go back and slot the goal instead of shirking the responsibility. Hence the gutless comment.

 

[Phil McCreviss]

I think souther urchins comment makes perfect sense. His point is the word 'gutless' comes in different forms. And he was pointing out that JL needed to go back and slot the goal instead of shirking the responsibility. Hence the gutless comment.

Ok well then I would define gutless as singling out individual players in their "why we lost" summary. That's my definition of gutless. All in the interpretation really.

 

[Southern Urchins]

I think souther urchins comment makes perfect sense. His point is the word 'gutless' comes in different forms. And he was pointing out that JL needed to go back and slot the goal instead of shirking the responsibility. Hence the gutless comment.

Thanks, that's exactly what I meant
I just want our leaders to lead, not palm off responsibility!

 

[Southern Urchins]

Ok well then I would define gutless as singling out individual players in their "why we lost" summary. That's my definition of gutless. All in the interpretation really.

Fair point Phil, as I said earlier, maybe poor leader or lacking moral courage is a better description to use towards him palming off shots? But he is a repeat offender and it's not good enough!

No, we did not lose because of Lewis, but if he wants the gig of skipper, he needs to lead and is going to cop more scrutiny. This is where Crawford performed time and time again. He kicked those goals and never shirked this responsibility as skipper.

Lewis is hard as nails, but lets himself down when he won't step up and take those shots. I hate the belief (not aimed at you) the Captain is a coin tosser and Jordan needs to work harder on his goal kicking at training if he's not confident taking these shots. Maybe as a leader this will inspire others to do the same? Heaven knows, we need all the goal kicking practice we can get! Don't worry, the other Vice Captain is not immune from this spray either!

 

[Phil McCreviss]

Fair point Phil, as I said earlier, maybe poor leader or lacking moral courage is a better description to use towards him palming off shots? But he is a repeat offender and it's not good enough!

No, we did not lose because of Lewis, but if he wants the gig of skipper, he needs to lead and is going to cop more scrutiny. This is where Crawford performed time and time again. He kicked those goals and never shirked this responsibility as skipper.

Lewis is hard as nails, but lets himself down when he won't step up and take those shots. I hate the belief (not aimed at you) the Captain is a coin tosser and Jordan needs to work harder on his goal kicking at training if he's not confident taking these shots. Maybe as a leader this will inspire others to do the same? Heaven knows, we need all the goal kicking practice we can get! Don't worry, the other Vice Captain is not immune from this spray either!

Agree with everything you have said.

But there is something you need to remember with Lewis. The whole of last year he carried our team as captain while Hodge sat on the sidelines. He has been given that duty again this season for exactly the same reason. Our captain still isn't fit. Now I am not having a go at Hodge here but Lewis led the team admirably in Hodge's absence. So much so that we ended up minor premiers. Not a bad job considering he was just a fill in. Hodge managed to come back on GF day but he can thank Lewis for getting us there in the first place.

I will admit I am a little bias but Lewis does a lot of things that go unnoticed. Hence the reason I saw red when I saw the word gutless

 

[Pessimistic]

Lewis never took a short step from his very first game

 

[Bardo State]

No one should ever doubt Lewis' physical courage, or his contribution to the greater team game

But he has the potential to really grab games by the balls and he rarely seems to achieve this, rather playing a long string of 'quite good' games

 

[Procrastinator35]

Whats really annoying is all these media pundits saying we are too slow and that the Cats out-paced us??? Are these guys serious??? Do they know anythiong about the game at all. The 2 blokes who killed us inside were Selwood & Chapman who fed the ball to their outside runners. Selwood & Chapman are hardly Quick just smarter than our players & clarkos absurd game style/ Plan. Just no idea what so ever these blokes. Pace is not our issue. The Game plan is whats at issue. PERIOD!!!

 

[Prudster]

The other problem which made us look slow, is that when the ball is bombed in as it was, it makes it so easy for Geelong to cut it off, resulting in an extremely quick rebound. That means we don't have enough time to set up defensively, allowing them to easily get it to their forward line, making our midfielders look unaccountable, and our team slower than it actually is.

It's funny, the commentators mentioned in the first half how Hawthorn made Geelong look slow with our run and spread. Since our team didn't really get slower in the second half, it really says that it has nothing to do with the speed of the team, and everything to do with how the game was being played out.

 

[Harper_Hawk]

Just watched the replay. Those six unanswered goals. If could have withstood the pressure in that period. We would have won. Nothing to do with speed.. but our ability to absorb pressure when the tide is perceived to be turning. I still believe we stand a chance to win this week in the west. Roughead needs to lift. I single him out because I know he can be better than he is.

 

[realhawk]

Hawks are just dumb. They have been beaten 10 times in a row by Geelong now and except for the ones where the Cats led from the start every game has basically been identical.

1. Hawks take no defensive marks - Cats take plenty
2. Buddy gives away cheap frees and 50's all game
3. Hawks refuse to take responsibility for kicking at goal - if you are good enough to hit a target amongst geelongs zone you are good enough to kick it between two sticks 6.4m apart.
4. Hawks continue time and time again to kick long balls to outnumbered forwards who are not capable of marking the thing even if they weren't outnumbered.
5. Geelong smash the hawks over the back in the second half EVERY SINGLE TIME. They know its going to happen, we know its about to happen, and no one does anything to stop it happening. Every game is the 08 GF in reverse. We taught them how to do it FFS!

We are just plain dumb.

All of this is correct, but apart from injuries the biggest problem which is costing our club victory is simply conversion. We convert at around 40% while the other top clubs covert at around 60%, thats the ball game right there, amazing considering we are regarded as the best field kicking side in the comp.

 

[La Vache]

I watched the replay and did my stoppage rankings from both sides.

In short we demolished them in there. Sewell got his hands on it a lot but was ordinary with double grabs and didn't create much. Apart from him several of our guys were among the most effective of the round. Lewis was probably the best performer of the week at the stoppages and Poppa and Mitch were up there. Breust scored 2 goals from clearances and Rioli made good things happen. Burger and Birchall as the first receiver were effective too with Birch a little more measured with his passes instead of just bombing it.

Where every attacking stoppage contribution is ranked out of ten these were our top 10 totals with the average contributions in brackets:

Lewis 75 (6.25)
Sewell 57 (4.75)
Mitchell 52 (6.50)
Puopolo 41 (6.83)
Rioli 34 (6.80)
Burgoyne 32 (5.33)
Birchall 27 (6.75)
Breust 25 (8.33)
Bailey 24 (6.00)
Guerra 21 (5.25)

A contribution of 7 or higher is deemed to be obviously advantageous to your side.

8 - Lewis. 5 - Poppa. 4 - Mitch. 3 - Rioli, Sewell, Breust. 2 - Birchall

were the main ones

 

[Bosk]

No one should ever doubt Lewis' physical courage, or his contribution to the greater team game

But he has the potential to really grab games by the balls and he rarely seems to achieve this, rather playing a long string of 'quite good' games

I think overall Lewis has done a great job as acting captain in Hodge's absence. He kicked plenty of clutch goals for us last year and was one of our most reliable set shots inside 50.

If you're asking him for the same heroics Selwood delivered then that may be beyond him. Lewis is a different type of player, and it isn't always necessary for a captain to be a team's best player - just look at someone like Ling for Geelong.

Lewis probably could stand to get more of the ball but I've never had a problem with him as acting captain. If anything we need our other experienced players like Roughead, Hale, Franklin and (though he's younger) Rioli to step up more. Perhaps Osborne can even make it back into the side, we've certainly missed his aggression. (though not the frees he'd often give away)