Play Nice Hawthorn culture and Fagan

[dlanod]

This is going to be a very touchy subject.

There will be a very broad range of opinions about the correct way to handle this.

I'll remind everyone to post respectfully at this time - sniping at each other is not going to help.

Any continued pointless back and forth will get a day or more to cool off. If you want to avoid this fate, let it go.

 

[Elixuh]

I am not going to name player names, but there was one around at the time who was on meth his whole career. Hypothetically doing something like trying to sort out his personal life by suggesting that he Moving in with the coach and getting him away from bad influences, could seem a bit more understandable under specific context like that. Might I add there is no context at all that I would support telling a player to have an abortion.

I'm so confused lol. I don't know what that has to do with anything I have posted.

 

[CarterS]

I'm so confused lol. I don't know what that has to do with anything I have posted.

You made a post to someone else asking what benefit there could be in knowing who the the player is. It could provide context if there was an extreme situation like that.

 

[Elixuh]

You made a post to someone else asking what benefit there could be in knowing who the the player is. It could provide context if there was an extreme situation like that.

Oh right, yeah but those conducting the AFL review will know their names. The general public doesn't, IMO, need to know. That is all I am saying.

 

[Hollow Knight]

You made a post to someone else asking what benefit there could be in knowing who the the player is. It could provide context if there was an extreme situation like that.

I believe that people have ascertained that that hypothetical player is not one of the three based on timing and duration of playing career referenced in the article.

 

[Saucery]

The Federal Government will be ropable after announcing the Indigenous voice to Parliament, Gil will under pressure from head office to deal with this convincingly and I am assuming they won't consider any further AFL grants until they see some heads on pikes. Someone's got to hang and not hard to see who it will be.

 

[martinson]

So true. If anyone ever picks up on these vibes in a job interview they should run.

Family often = do what you're told and toe the line otherwise there will be consequences.

 

[Sausages]

Oh right, yeah but those conducting the AFL review will know their names. The general public doesn't, IMO, need to know. That is all I am saying.

I get your position mate, I honestly do.

And in many cases, I would otherwise support that position.

But given the conduct and the environs, do you not agree that institutionalised racism in the halls of the nations biggest sport and all that that represents, is in the national interest to be fully, fairly and exhaustively investigated, irrespective of any pariahs that might be uncomfortably slain along the way?

 

[Saucery]

I get your position mate, I honestly do.

And in many cases, I would otherwise support that position.

But given the conduct and the environs, do you not agree that institutionalised racism in the halls of the nations biggest sport and all that that represents, is in the national interest to be fully, fairly and exhaustively investigated, irrespective of any pariahs that might be uncomfortably slain along the way?

No, there is a big difference between what's in the publics interest and what the public is interested in.

 

[Sausages]

No, there is a big difference between what's in the publics interest and what the public is interested in.

Which is exactly part of the problem.

 

[Elixuh]

I get your position mate, I honestly do.

And in many cases, I would otherwise support that position.

But given the conduct and the environs, do you not agree that institutionalised racism in the halls of the nations biggest sport and all that that represents, is in the national interest to be fully, fairly and exhaustively investigated, irrespective of any pariahs that might be uncomfortably slain along the way?

It is being fully, fairly and exhaustively investigated. That process is underway.

 

[Sausages]

It is being fully, fairly and exhaustively investigated. That process is underway.

Sure - but that doesn't answer my question

 

[martinson]

I believe that people have ascertained that that hypothetical player is not one of the three based on timing and duration of playing career referenced in the article.

I've got a feeling the media will nut out who they are and then it could get a little ugly.

Any competent investigator would work it out reasonably quickly.

SM being what it is will have all the answers before too long.

I'm hoping it doesn't degenerate in that fashion. The AFL needs to be ready for all contingencies.

 

[Fitzroy bears]

It was never a review that was intended to include white people from the club. It was a review commissioned to give indigenous players a chance to tell their stories. It was not an investigation, it’s was their chance to allow potential victims have their say.

If it was proposed, ‘you tell your story and then powerful white males will tell theirs, and we will release the findings and see who people think is right?’ - do you think they would have participated?

The review was also a fact finding mission, no one’s job was riding on it at the time it was commissioned, because of the gravity of the claims, they have sort higher guidance.

From this point, if Fagan and Clarko where not included that would be outrageous, but to this point - the First Nations review did not require intervention and participation from the accused.

I honestly didn't know that it was a "no white person" review.
It seems an interesting way to repair relationships in an integrated society such as football club, but if it works so be it.

 

[Saucery]

Which is exactly part of the problem.

It means what Elixuh was saying, it's import that this be a proper, authentic investigation by the members of the review panel and they will of course need access to the witnesses, if they choose to come forward. If we have faith in the investigator and process then we don't need to know who was involved. Governments often use this path to protect sensitive information getting into the wrong hands. Talk of slaying pariahs is sounds like sacrificing the victims to me.

 

[Elixuh]

Sure - but that doesn't answer my question

I can't agree with your question because I have no idea how you're using the word pariah.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Is a dead Kennedy coming into AFL house to denounce Cripps and talk of Neale as the righteous winner?


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Jello Biafra? East Bay Ray? Klaus Flouride? D H Peligro? Ted?

 

[Fitzroy bears]

So how long do you want a journalist to sit on a story for, twiddling their thumbs by the phone, waiting for a call? In the general forum thread yesterday, people with some knowledge of the news media industry said that journalists rarely give more than 24 hours notice, sometimes 12 hours, sometimes less.

I would prefer the journo not use names of the alleged before he/she has the full facts....but it wouldn't sell as many papers then. Fagan and Clarkson make for a much juicy story.
No problems with time frame

 

[Tom14]

I would prefer the journo not use names of the alleged before he/she has the full facts....but it wouldn't sell as many papers then. Fagan and Clarkson make for a much juicy story.
No problems with time frame

If you have sufficient information to identify, and you aren’t specific you potentially smear others who were at hawthorn but weren’t part of what is alleged. So not so easy.

If you say ‘football staff at hawthorn’ everyone assumes clarko anyway.

 

[Sausages]

It means what Elixuh was saying, it's import that this be a proper, authentic investigation by the members of the review panel and they will of course need access to the witnesses, if they choose to come forward. If we have faith in the investigator and process then we don't need to know who was involved. Governments often use this path to protect sensitive information getting into the wrong hands. Talk of slaying pariahs is sounds like sacrificing the victims to me.

But then this clearly wasn't classified as sensitive information - it was thrust into the public sphere other wise unceremoniously.

Is this how we approach the issue?

To simply accept that the current standards, lurking beneath the entirety of the umbrella of our current understanding, are satisfactory in solving the problem?

That the incident, as alleged, is beyond racism and borders on ethnic removal? And we're taking our moral direction from a sporting body.....

If we accept the gravity of the situation for all parties, does that not suggest that bringing forth a more conclusive, public investigation is warranted?

 

[Fitzroy bears]

Oh right, yeah but those conducting the AFL review will know their names. The general public doesn't, IMO, need to know. That is all I am saying.

Unfortunately this should have included Fagan and Clarkson too (anonymity) until a full investigation took place and findings handed down.

 

[Saucery]

I would prefer the journo not use names of the alleged before he/she has the full facts....but it wouldn't sell as many papers then. Fagan and Clarkson make for a much juicy story.
No problems with time frame

So the article is based upon an independent report commissioned by Hawthorne to look into the Cyril Rioli case and any others they found whist interviewing Indigenous players. Pretty sure they name themselves, or would actually cast a shadow over the whole coaching group through that period.

Bolton
Simpson
Cameron
Hardwick
Beveridge
Dew

and of course Fagan.
Will be interesting to see what else crawls out from under that rock they kicked over and whether any others are implicated.

 

[Sausages]

I can't agree with your question because I have no idea how you're using the word pariah.

Lol.

I'm sure you can figure it out

 

[Fitzroy bears]

If you have sufficient information to identify, and you aren’t specific you potentially smear others who were at hawthorn but weren’t part of what is alleged. So not so easy.

If you say ‘football staff at hawthorn’ everyone assumes clarko anyway.

Better for the public to assume and afford them some deniability then to "smear" potentially innocent people.....this sort of stuff sticks for a very long time even if they are vindicated

 

[Saucery]

But then this clearly wasn't classified as sensitive information - it was thrust into the public sphere other wise unceremoniously.

Is this how we approach the issue?

To simply accept that the current standards, lurking beneath the entirety of the umbrella of our current understanding, are satisfactory in solving the problem?

That the incident, as alleged, is beyond racism and borders on ethnic removal? And we're taking our moral direction from a sporting body.....

If we accept the gravity of the situation for all parties, does that not suggest that bringing forth a more conclusive, public investigation is warranted?

No the Federal government are all over this, there will be no white wash (pun intended).

'Inconceivable': Indigenous Australians Minister tells AFL to take Hawthorn club allegations seriously

Linda Burney says all sporting clubs and codes should carefully examine their relationships with First Nations players following allegations about Hawthorn Football Club.

www.abc.net.au

Minister for Indigenous Australians Linda Burney is backing further investigation into historical allegations against coaching staff at Hawthorn Football Club. "It is inconceivable in this day and age … the allegations that have been made by the players involved, the families involved, the communities involved with the Hawthorn Football Club," she said.
Ms Burney has spoken with AFL boss Gillon McLachlan and social policy and inclusion lead Tanya Hosch regarding the subsequent investigation the AFL ordered into the club.

"The discussions were around what the AFL was going to immediately do and that is, of course, the investigation that Gill McLachlan announced today," she said.

"He also made a commitment to keep me abreast of those investigations, which I welcome. This has to be taken seriously."

 

[lioninthesand]

I honestly didn't know that it was a "no white person" review.
It seems an interesting way to repair relationships in an integrated society such as football club, but if it works so be it.

It wasn’t to repair relationships, it was to see if the indigenous players had experienced racism whilst at the club. As the white Australians at the club where unlikely to have suffered from racism, there was no reason to interview them. Now that accusations have been made, another investigation has been launched which will include both sides.