Play Nice Hawthorn culture and Fagan

[dlanod]

This is going to be a very touchy subject.

There will be a very broad range of opinions about the correct way to handle this.

I'll remind everyone to post respectfully at this time - sniping at each other is not going to help.

Any continued pointless back and forth will get a day or more to cool off. If you want to avoid this fate, let it go.

 

[Nunez]

Chris Scott won a flag in his first year in charge of the Cats. Maybe Brad can repeat it with us.

Brad is warming on me.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Just wondering, if this accusation was made against you would you be happy with the process?

Yes.

And pretty sure both statements allude to the fact they haven’t been given due process.

Due process is a legal term. What are you intending it to mean in this context?

Now I’m standing up for his right to reply to a serious accusation before being named as a culprit and let it play out appropriately before having the world hang him and assume it’s all true. As has played out in media.

He had a right to reply. He was given 24 hours notice and contact was attempted with him by two different methods. If the article had omitted the names of any Hawthorn figure of the time but still mentioned the name of the club, would that have been acceptable?

Got nothing to do with loyalty. Got to do with being logical, fair/equal and grounded.

Okay, I accept that's your personal perspective. Others in this thread have attacked anyone who they deem to not be displaying sufficient loyalty to Fagan.

The abc journo himself says he used the lions general email and provided 24 hours notice. I would need more than 24 hours to respond properly to such serious allegations.

Okay, that's your personal feeling. I've heard from multiple people now that 24 hours notice is pretty standard in the journalism industry before publishing a breaking news story.

Anything he says would of had to have been run by the club, AFL etc. can’t just have a chin wag on the phone

I doubt straightforward denial or "I don't recall" needs a meeting. But if it does, then he could have said he was unable to give an answer.

 

[LionsMaw]

Chris Scott won a flag in his first year in charge of the Cats. Maybe Brad can repeat it with us.

Yeah but Bomber laid the foundations.

 

[Nunez]

Yeah but Bomber laid the foundations.

As did Fagan?

 

[LionsMaw]

As did Fagan?

My reply was to do with the, implied, point made that the cats won bcos Scotty was some sort of super coach. He didn't create the team that won, bomber did. He was just at the helm on GF day.

 

[Nunez]

My reply was to do with the, implied, point made that the cats won bcos Scotty was some sort of super coach. He didn't create the team that won, bomber did. He was just at the helm on GF day.

That wasn't implied at all. I think you've misread PattyK.

 

[Nuggo]

My reply was to do with the, implied, point made that the cats won bcos Scotty was some sort of super coach. He didn't create the team that won, bomber did. He was just at the helm on GF day.

I think Chris Scott has earnt the reputation of being a very good coach and not just somebody at the helm.

 

[_Gin]

Yes.


Due process is a legal term. What are you intending it to mean in this context?


He had a right to reply. He was given 24 hours notice and contact was attempted with him by two different methods. If the article had omitted the names of any Hawthorn figure of the time but still mentioned the name of the club, would that have been acceptable?


Okay, I accept that's your personal perspective. Others in this thread have attacked anyone who they deem to not be displaying sufficient loyalty to Fagan.


Okay, that's your personal feeling. I've heard from multiple people now that 24 hours notice is pretty standard in the journalism industry before publishing a breaking news story.


I doubt straightforward denial or "I don't recall" needs a meeting. But if it does, then he could have said he was unable to give an answer.

Journalists are rewarded for breaking a story.

This incentivised them to minimise the time that other parties can interfere or respond.

Just because 24 hours is standard doesn't make it right.

There are lots of things that have been "standard" that are not morally right.

 

[Nunez]

Chris Scott won a flag in his first year in charge of the Cats. Maybe Brad can repeat it with us.

Forgetting today's result, if Craig Starcevich would be up for a caretaker role I'd absolutely back him in to get the most out of the team.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Journalists are rewarded for breaking a story.

This incentivised them to minimise the time that other parties can interfere or respond.

Just because 24 hours is standard doesn't make it right.

There are lots of things that have been "standard" that are not morally right.

Take it up with the industry then. Or ask your MP to introduce a bill mandating longer notice requirements for journalists before publishing.

 

[McIvor]

Chris Scott won a flag in his first year in charge of the Cats. Maybe Brad can repeat it with us.

Can we have Chris instead?

Couldn't stand it if Brad Scott and his antics comes back to Brisbane.

 

[western royboy]

Not much faith in WorkSafe tbh. Didn't they give the Crows the all-clear after their camp?

Vic v SA…very different beasts

 

[Brett C]

I find it a bit odd that the author of the report is now providing commentary on said report

Especially when as a consultant I’m sure he’s aiming for some of the $$$ that would come from reviews at each club.

But of course we can’t assume he’d have a vested Interest

 

[Requiem]

I got the same read on this as you. Hawthorn commissioned a First Nations Consultants to Interview past First Nations Footballers from the club, 20 of them. That came from the current Hawthorne President in a letter to members yesterday.

That report identified some issue that needed further investigation remembering the interviews were under anonymity. That report went to the AFL as Hawthorne didn't think they had the resources necessary to fully investigate. That bit I believe given the amount of people involved and employed all across the AFL

Somewhere in that process the ABC got wind of it and did their own interviews based on anonymity. Who leaked the story, even the hint of it, and to whom, will become evident later.

It seems to me, people are angry with whoever the reporter was/is because it's just a one sided article, Fagan and Clarkson have been hung out in public while the accusers have anonymity. That wont be the case going forward.

The anger is at the injustice where Fagan and Clarkson have been accused, openly without the opportunity to defend themselves. They hadn't been afforded the right to defence by the Hawthorne Club, the AFL or the ABC. Because no one knows the how, why, when and whom. Personally I've no doubt these sort of conversations happened to all young footballers in all the clubs in some contextual way.

I sit here as a keyboard warrior thinking what I would do if I read some accusations about myself that just came out in the national press from un-named sources, at some time, some where. I think my first reaction would be - give me the details so I can at least answer my critics and defend myself. Thats where the frustration comes from, Clarkson and Fagan cant fight this at the moment as their accusers remain protected in the shadows and the public, some of them, are lashing out at the process, not individuals in particular.

It's a very tricky situation for anyone to navigate, given the reputation Fagan has built up over the years and a genuinely caring coach who gets invested into the lives of his players, and the reputation of Russell Jackson as a journalist who fights for those who have been abused by people in power. It's hard to discredit one or find fault with the other at this point in time, not like if Jon Ralph had written a hit piece for example.

 

[LionsMaw]

I think Chris Scott has earnt the reputation of being a very good coach and not just somebody at the helm.

He has now but the 1st GF the cats won with him in charge, it wasn't bcos of him that they won. All the hard work had already been done.

 

[LionsMaw]

That wasn't implied at all. I think you've misread PattyK.

How? Don't think so.

 

[LionsMaw]

Forgetting today's result, if Craig Starcevich would be up for a caretaker role I'd absolutely back him in to get the most out of the team.

No to Starce being caretaker. He's the women's coach. Men's team needs to find someone else.

 

[PattyKwasagun]

How? Don't think so.

Yep, you’ve misread me there - that’s exactly what I was saying. That both Brad & Chris might win flags in their first seasons at new clubs off the foundation another coach has built.

 

[Nunez]

Yep, you’ve misread me there - that’s exactly what I was saying. That both Brad & Chris might win flags in their first seasons at new clubs off the foundation another coach has built.

I'm pretty sure you meant Brad is a super coach...

 

[Requiem]

I don’t know why we blow wind up this guys backside. He still didn’t get both sides of the story. Fact.

We profess that this guy is all about justice and equality, yet he hasn’t afford it to both sides. Respect all human beings equal and afford natural justice to all parties. He hasn’t done that.

We can spin it any which way we want. He made a half baked attempt to contact Fagan and even his justification for that is completely amateur and cringeworthy. I couldn’t care less what this guy has done in the past with this writing. He also has his own agenda.

From what I understand, Jackson's attempts to contact Fagan with 24hrs notice via email (and left a voicemail message offering to extend the deadline) is an industry standard time frame for such an article.

Funnily enough - and I might have missed something here - reading through Clarkson's and Fagan statements again, neither of them have denied receiving the contact for interview from the ABC prior to the article being published, only referencing the Hawthorn Commissioned External Review.

 

[LionsMaw]

Yep, you’ve misread me there - that’s exactly what I was saying. That both Brad & Chris might win flags in their first seasons at new clubs off the foundation another coach has built.

Ok, apologies.

 

[mighty_lions]

Lethal Injection: Why clubs and coaches become like family - 3AW is Football

Listen back to the final edition of the Lethal Injection for season 2022.

omny.fm

Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[SRH17]

Lethal Injection: Why clubs and coaches become like family - 3AW is Football

Listen back to the final edition of the Lethal Injection for season 2022.

omny.fm

Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Lethal….”would trust Chris with my kids and grandkids“

 

[T Rick]

Lethal….”would trust Chris with my kids and grandkids“

So good to hear Lethal provide unqualified character support for Fages!

 

[_Gin]

Take it up with the industry then. Or ask your MP to introduce a bill mandating longer notice requirements for journalists before publishing.

Or I can take the view that 24 hours is not a reasonable period to respond and feel sympathy for Fagan.

The pressure involved in these situations is immense.

The story is important, there is an issue that needs to be addressed. But delaying publication by days or even a couple of weeks wasn't detrimental to the public interest.

Given the ramifications to the individuals involved Jackson should have been very sure that his story can be substantiated. Perhaps he is and time will tell.

But I will have no sympathy for him if he has rushed it and overstepped.