NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed. Part 3

[Wosh]

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

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[peetoo]

I'd argue the point about whether society has shifted towards progressive as you have suggested.

As the results from the Voice referendum showed their are massive divisions between inner city and outer suburban / rural electorates.

That's my main gripe about the ABC at the moment, it's being almost solely run to appease its inner city base (as let's face it that is where 90% of the presenters live and work) whilst ignoring the rest of Australia.

And as we all pay taxes that fund its existence that's not kosher in my book.

Can remember when the bush had the ABC and one other channel which seeemd to hve video movies on repeat. Nothing more

The abc has county focussed programs which I can’t remember seeing on sky for example

 

[sr36]

I'd argue the point about whether society has shifted towards progressive as you have suggested.

As the results from the Voice referendum showed their are massive divisions between inner city and outer suburban / rural electorates.

That's my main gripe about the ABC at the moment, it's being almost solely run to appease its inner city base (as let's face it that is where 90% of the presenters live and work) whilst ignoring the rest of Australia.

And as we all pay taxes that fund its existence that's not kosher in my book.

But the ABC is the only major outlet that creates any media designed for rural Australia.

88% of the population live in urban areas and 75% in the major cities - being representative means the city perspective is more prevalent.

I wouldn't use the voice vote as an example. Initial polling had 70% in favour of the voice. The no campaign basically ran an infinitely more effective campaign than the yes campaign. I don't think it means that the country hasn't become less "conservative" in its social views.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

But the ABC is the only major outlet that creates any media designed for rural Australia.

88% of the population live in urban areas and 75% in the major cities - being representative means the city perspective is more prevalent.

I wouldn't use the voice vote as an example. Initial polling had 70% in favour of the voice. The no campaign basically ran an infinitely more effective campaign than the yes campaign. I don't think it means that the country hasn't become less "conservative" in its social views.

Big difference between inner city (ie Brunswick) and outer suburban (ie. Cranbourne).

I'd say more people live in the outer suburbs than inner yet I don't see this reflected in the ABC in their coverage. I just don't think issues like indigenous rights, LGBT rights, etc are front of mind for a lot of people in the outer suburbs (they are more focused on core issues like cost of living, healthcare, transport, etc) yet the ABC spends an inordinate amount of time covering them.

Yes I will give you that the ABC does have the Country Hour, which is actually a pretty decent show.

 

[sr36]

Big difference between inner city (ie Brunswick) and outer suburban (ie. Cranbourne).

I'd say more people live in the outer suburbs than inner yet I don't see this reflected in the ABC in their coverage. I just don't think issues like indigenous rights, LGBT rights, etc are front of mind for a lot of people in the outer suburbs (they are more focused on core issues like cost of living, healthcare, transport, etc) yet the ABC spends an inordinate amount of time covering them.

Yes I will give you that the ABC does have the Country Hour, which is actually a pretty decent show.

They give a lot of time to those issues on the ABC radio stations that I listen to on my morning commute. Obviously they have recently given a lot of time to Aboriginal issues. Can't remember the last time during my commute that LGB was a focus. Comes up in some of their tv shows. But I think it's the reaction to it from conservatives that is more prevalent than the actual content. 11% of the population identify as LGBTQ - pretty similar percentage to the rural Aussies who you're advocating for. Their rights aren't a small issue when you also factor in the families affected.

 

[Liam Boy]

They give a lot of time to those issues on the ABC radio stations that I listen to on my morning commute. Obviously they have recently given a lot of time to Aboriginal issues. Can't remember the last time during my commute that LGB was a focus. Comes up in some of their shows. But I think it's the reaction to it from conservatives that is more prevalent than the actual content. 11% of the population identify as LGBTQ - pretty similar percentage to the rural Aussies who you're advocating for. Their rights aren't a small issue when you also factor in the families affected.

not to mention it's way harder to live a safe and happy life as an LGBTQ person if you're also poor and/or rural. not mutually exclusive issues.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Hi mate. I know you believe the testimony of the players and families.

But may I ask if you believe any important facts or additional contextual information was not included in their version of events?

I have been privy to a different side of events than most but will leave it to higher powers than me to work out what is right and what is wrong.

 

[peetoo]

Any media which just focuses on cost of living and boring droll isn’t going to last long

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Any media which just focuses on cost of living and boring droll isn’t going to last long

When I was growing up, any program presented both sides of the story.
I have not seen this in probably 15 years.

 

[Chief]

When I was growing up, any program presented both sides of the story.
I have not seen this in probably 15 years.

You don't think the ABC has been running both sides of, say, the climate change/global warming story to the point of ridicule?

 

[faible]

You don't think the ABC has been running both sides of, say, the climate change/global warming story to the point of ridicule?

When most of the MSM is very, very right leaning, the ABC would seem pretty radical by comparison just for airing anything to the left of that.

 

[sr36]

When I was growing up, any program presented both sides of the story.
I have not seen this in probably 15 years.

There's been an idealogical change in this regard. The ethos used to be to give equal time to both sides of an argument, but that's flawed too - imagine giving equal time to the flat earth society compared with those scientists who have concluded the earth is round. Well, we basically saw that with climate change for a couple of decades - when a handful of scientists who published studies funded by energy companies were given ridiculously disproportiantate weighting against the findings of a huge percentage of independent studies.

The weighting has shifted towards those who are independent experts in a field and as a consequence you get all these complaints of "intellectualism": as though the opinions of iindependent experts shouldn't be given more weighting than an uneducated or financially compromised opinion.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

There's been an idealogical change in this regard. The ethos used to be to give equal time to both sides of an argument, but that's flawed too - imagine giving equal time to the flat earth society compared with those scientists who have concluded the earth is round. Well, we basically saw that with climate change for a couple of decades - when a handful of scientists who published studies funded by energy companies were given ridiculously disproportiantate weighting against the findings of a huge percentage of independent studies.

The weighting has shifted towards those who are independent experts in a field and as a consequence you get all these complaints of "intellectualism": as though the opinions of iindependent experts shouldn't be given more weighting than an uneducated or financially compromised opinion.

Giving air to Amy and all research without thorough investigation is also flawed. Look at the vaccine debates that all started due to a dodgy "report"

 

[sr36]

Giving air to Amy and all research without thorough investigation is also flawed. Look at the vaccine debates that all started due to a dodgy "report"

You'll need to elaborate. I'm not sure what you're talking about with "giving air to Amy" or the dodgy vaccine report.

 

[Chief]

Look at the vaccine debates that all started due to a dodgy "report"

Where are you going with this? I really don't like having to chase down vaccine misinformation.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

You'll need to elaborate. I'm not sure what you're talking about with "giving air to Amy" or the dodgy vaccine report.

Should've said any...

The dodgy vaccine report that said vaccines cause autism... it ran for a day unchallenged, and now look where we are

 

[sr36]

Should've said any...

The dodgy vaccine report that said vaccines cause autism... it ran for a day unchallenged, and now look where we are

Going to be a big issue going forward as media companies have cut staffing so much that it's hard to get expert verification to decide whether a scientific study or any other study is legit or dodgy. And that's before you look at outlets that publish stuff that they know to be dodgy.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Going to be a big issue going forward as media companies have cut staffing so much that it's hard to get expert verification to decide whether a scientific study or any other study is legit or dodgy. And that's before you look at outlets that publish stuff that they know to be dodgy.

It's already happened (wage gap, DV stats etc)
Both exists, but with context don't paint anywhere near the same picture the media makes out

 

[Makeshift Park]

Going to be a big issue going forward as media companies have cut staffing so much that it's hard to get expert verification to decide whether a scientific study or any other study is legit or dodgy. And that's before you look at outlets that publish stuff that they know to be dodgy.

I take your point about the effects of the contracted industry, but on the other hand, its not exactly hard for anyone to ask themselves "is this study coming from a peer-reviewed journal" and "are its authors and the people on the journal's editorial board actually employed by reputable universities in the field they profess to have expertise in". Takes all of about 2 minutes.

 

[HairyO]

Oh God. Make a list of factual errors, character assassinations, and plain old lies from Murdoch and co that they REFUSE to apologise for.

They arent funded by taxpayers with a charter which requires neutrality.

Would you really object to having to behave more like the BBC ?

 

[JackOutback]

When I was growing up, any program presented both sides of the story.
I have not seen this in probably 15 years.

If one person tells you it's raining and another person tells you it isn't raining, a journo's job isn't to present both arguments equally. It's to stick his or her head out the window and report the facts.

 

[Chief]

They arent funded by taxpayers with a charter which requires neutrality.

Did he talk about that? He seemed to just throw up a list of retractions.

And what difference does that make if it is a licensed broadcaster? With journalists working under a code of ethics?

MEAA Journalist Code of Ethics

MEAA Journalist Code of Ethics MEAA initiated Australian media self-regulation in 1944 when it created the MEAA Journalist Code of Ethics (see the FAQs tab below). Under MEAA’s rules, registered with the Fair Work Commission, MEAA’s Journalist Code of Ethics only applies to MEAA Media’s...

www.meaa.org

What do you think broadcast licensing is for?

Do you think just because they are for-profit companies it doesn't matter if they lie, bully, destroy people's lives?

 

[HairyO]

Did he talk about that? He seemed to just throw up a list of retractions.

And what difference does that make if it is a licensed broadcaster? With journalists working under a code of ethics?

MEAA Journalist Code of Ethics

MEAA Journalist Code of Ethics MEAA initiated Australian media self-regulation in 1944 when it created the MEAA Journalist Code of Ethics (see the FAQs tab below). Under MEAA’s rules, registered with the Fair Work Commission, MEAA’s Journalist Code of Ethics only applies to MEAA Media’s...

www.meaa.org

What do you think broadcast licensing is for?

Do you think just because they are for-profit companies it doesn't matter if they lie, bully, destroy people's lives?

I think we have standards and courts which take care of things like that. BTW: is it any different in your mind if a for profit organisation destroys a life vs a public funded organisation destroys a life?

Also, you skipped my question about whether it would be so bad if the ABC simply had the same standards and oversight as the BBC?

 

[Chief]

BTW: is it any different in your mind if a for profit organisation destroys a life vs a public funded organisation destroys a life?

It seems different in your mind.

 

[HairyO]

It seems different in your mind.

Of course its different. Government organisations shouldnt ever be expected that they would destroy lives. Private companies do it literally all the time.

And still you avoid the question on the ABC vs BBC. Is the BBC really that badly run? Or you know your argument falls apart if you have to acknowledge the differences between the ABC and BBC?

 

[Chief]

And still you avoid the question on the ABC vs BBC. Is the BBC really that badly run? Or you know your argument falls apart if you have to acknowledge the differences between the ABC and BBC?

I don't know a ton about the BBC.