NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed. Part 3

[Wosh]

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

Process Plan - https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/do...erms-of-Reference-and-Process-Plan-FINAL-.pdf

AFL Ends Investigation - 'Imperfect resolution' as Hawks probe ends, no one charged

DO NOT QUOTE THREADS FROM OTHER BOARDS

 

[Chief]

Private companies do it literally all the time.

And is this acceptable?

 

[Mitchell Madness]

If one person tells you it's raining and another person tells you it isn't raining, a journo's job isn't to present both arguments equally. It's to stick his or her head out the window and report the facts.

A good journalist tells you where it's raining, how heavy, flooding, etc, not "it's raining, do your research"

 

[Simon Crawshay]

If one person tells you it's raining and another person tells you it isn't raining, a journo's job isn't to present both arguments equally. It's to stick his or her head out the window and report the facts.

Yes, that's correct report the facts. No one here would have an issue if they did just that.

But very little in this world can be considered as absolute truth (ie. Facts). Certain physical constants such as the speed of light and the atomic weight of Hydrogen, etc.

But much of life is grey and the truth usually falls somewhere in the middle (where l think we will eventually find this whole sorry saga of Hawthorn lies).

And that's where the ABC cocked up big time with Rusty's article (and a lot of reporting if late), they are dishing up ideology and only reporting one side of a story and saying it's "fact" and not open to debate.

 

[western royboy]

Yes, that's correct report the facts. No one here would have an issue if they did just that.

But very little in this world can be considered as absolute truth (ie. Facts). Certain physical constants such as the speed of light and the atomic weight of Hydrogen, etc.

But much of life is grey and the truth usually falls somewhere in the middle (where l think we will eventually find this whole sorry saga of Hawthorn lies).

And that's where the ABC cocked up big time with Rusty's article (and a lot of reporting if late), they are dishing up ideology and only reporting one side of a story and saying it's "fact" and not open to debate.

Where are the defamation actions resulting from the article?

 

[JackOutback]

Of course its different. Government organisations shouldnt ever be expected that they would destroy lives. Private companies do it literally all the time.

And still you avoid the question on the ABC vs BBC. Is the BBC really that badly run? Or you know your argument falls apart if you have to acknowledge the differences between the ABC and BBC?

Exposing corruption, sexual abuse, racism always comes with the risk of 'destroying lives'. You're saying a government-run media organisation shouldn't cover corruption, sexual abuse, racism?

 

[sr36]

I take your point about the effects of the contracted industry, but on the other hand, its not exactly hard for anyone to ask themselves "is this study coming from a peer-reviewed journal" and "are its authors and the people on the journal's editorial board actually employed by reputable universities in the field they profess to have expertise in". Takes all of about 2 minutes.

The Lancet - where the autism link was claimed - and then mainstream media ran with - is a reputable peer reviewed publication. It would be nigh impossible for a mainstream media company to decide that was dodgy info without an extremely skilled scientist analysing the study.

some stuff just gets through ...

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Giving air to Amy and all research without thorough investigation is also flawed. Look at the vaccine debates that all started due to a dodgy "report"

Sigmund would be proud.

 

[Makeshift Park]

The Lancet - where the autism link was claimed - and then mainstream media ran with - is a reputable peer reviewed publication. It would be nigh impossible for a mainstream media company to decide that was dodgy info without an extremely skilled scientist analysing the study.

some stuff just gets through ...

Having spent most of my life studiously avoiding anti-vaccine propaganda, I'm just reading about it now. Had no idea it was originally from the Lancet.

Lancet retracts 12-year-old article linking autism to MMR vaccines - PMC

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Lancet retracts 'utterly false' MMR paper

After medical council ruling last week that MMR doctor Andrew Wakefield was dishonest, journal finally quashes paper

www.theguardian.com

Wakefield "was dishonest", said Horton. "He deceived the journal." The Lancet had done what it could to establish that the research was valid, by having it peer-reviewed. But there is a limit, he said, to what peer-review can ascertain.

"Peer review is the best system we have got for checking accuracy and acceptability of work, but unless we went into the lab or examined every case record, we can't ever finally rule out some element of misconduct. The entire system depends upon trust. Most of the time we think it works well, but there will be a few instances – and when they happen they are huge instances – where the whole thing falls apart."

Its a pretty interesting case. A rare instance where fraudulent research got the green light. Still, the bolded bit isn't very comforting. The skeptic in me wonders whether the peer-review actually tested his claims properly.

I forget - was there much mainstream media take up when his 1998 article came out?

I've done a Google history search for "lancet autism vaccine" articles prior to 2010, the year when the Lancet retracted it, but its come up with bugger all.

 

[Rusty Brookes]

Having spent most of my life studiously avoiding anti-vaccine propaganda, I'm just reading about it now. Had no idea it was originally from the Lancet.

Lancet retracts 12-year-old article linking autism to MMR vaccines - PMC

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Lancet retracts 'utterly false' MMR paper

After medical council ruling last week that MMR doctor Andrew Wakefield was dishonest, journal finally quashes paper

www.theguardian.com

Its a pretty interesting case. A rare instance where fraudulent research got the green light. Still, the bolded bit isn't very comforting. The skeptic in me wonders whether the peer-review actually tested his claims properly.

I forget - was there much mainstream media take up when his 1998 article came out?

I've done a Google history search for "lancet autism vaccine" articles prior to 2010, the year when the Lancet retracted it, but its come up with bugger all.

Peer review isn't perfect which is why retractions in journals happen. It's quite common for papers to be published and subsequently retracted. Despite the idea that some nuffies have that scientists are all in some big conspiracy, they often love taking down a colleague when they are fraudulent (or just plain wrong). It's actually one of the strengths of the scientific process.

Retraction Watch

Tracking retractions as a window into the scientific process

retractionwatch.com

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Peer review isn't perfect which is why retractions in journals happen. It's quite common for papers to be published and subsequently retracted. Despite the idea that some nuffies have that scientists are all in some big conspiracy, they often love taking down a colleague when they are fraudulent (or just plain wrong). It's actually one of the strengths of the scientific process.

Retraction Watch

Tracking retractions as a window into the scientific process

retractionwatch.com

Peer review isn't what it used to be either.
Old peer-reviews used to go put of their way to disprove a theory to the point where you'd have 100 pages stating why it might not be the case, or showing inconclusive evidence. These days it seems more like "yep, we read it, give us money"

 

[CharacterFirst]

Back on topic people.

Start again from here.

Hawthorn are racist.

 

[Makeshift Park]

Peer review isn't perfect which is why retractions in journals happen. It's quite common for papers to be published and subsequently retracted.

It’s not so common that straight out fraudulent research gets approved in a mainstream science journal though, which is what happened in the Wakefield-MMR case. Beggars belief why someone would green light an article making landmark claims about something as contentious as vaccines causing autism without the veracity of the results being tested properly, which the EiC admits didn’t occur there.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Chief has been wonderful in spreading the word about this amazing Aboriginal fundraiser for the Victorian Aboriginal Child Care Agency for VACCA. VACCA do incredible work with struggling Aboriginal families. My daughter in law and best mate are running it through their school. Many wonderful big footy posters have contributed. If you would like to make a donation please do so in the link below.

https://community-hub-vacca.raisely.com/seansimpsonloyolacollege

 

[ferball]

So you seem happy to reduce a complex set of events to those vindicated and those sent to the naughty corner. I think most fair minded folk get the complexities of human behaviours.

There are no winners here, least of all Kennett. Maybe the one thing everyone can agree on is that Jeffrey Gibb Kennett should be permabanned from attending the footy.

Its pretty rare I agree with you but well said.

 

[ferball]

You hear old fogies make this claim as if This Day Tonight wasn't riling up conservatives in the seventies.

But yet, even still, I can't remember the last time a national survey found any media organisation in this country was more trusted than the ABC.

From just last week:

It’s Official: Woolworths is Australia’s Most Trusted Brand - Roy Morgan Research

www.roymorgan.com

And over the past decade:

View attachment 1843031


Fair enough if you don't like its news coverage, that's fine, but the actual numbers tell a different story to the one you're describing.

This is way off track but ABC radio knew more about the Black saturday fires in Kinglake and faster than CFA HQ in Melbourne. if you're in rural Australia and experience some sort of disaster the ABC is the source you trust. Whatever your politics.

 

[ferball]

Can you give some examples of the media leaning right.

I primarily watch ch10 news and read the age. And they are both very progressive.

Sure sky news speaks to conservatives and the herald sun has many op Ed’s by conservatives.

But what other examples can you provide

(I’m not disagreeing just interested in what the media I don’t consume says)

Privatisation is a scam, we should own all of our resources instead of selling the rights to them offshore and without unions we'd still be serfs. But the media won't tell you that because its so far to the right economically. Anyway enough of this...

Oh wait. Australia voted No in that latest referendum...

Anyway back to crucifying Clarko et al.

 

[Soggy2112]

Can you give some examples of the media leaning right.

I primarily watch ch10 news and read the age. And they are both very progressive.

Sure sky news speaks to conservatives and the herald sun has many op Ed’s by conservatives.

But what other examples can you provide

(I’m not disagreeing just interested in what the media I don’t consume says)

They’re progressive on social issues like LGBTQ because it makes them look good and hides their true intent. The same way big corporations will jump on these corporations.

When it comes down to it they’re mostly right wing/conservative because that’s what’s good for the people paying their wages.

 

[ferball]

You don't think the ABC has been running both sides of, say, the climate change/global warming story to the point of ridicule?

That might be the only example tho.

 

[western royboy]

That might be the only example tho.

Current situation in Gaza?

 

[ferball]

Current situation in Gaza?

Honestly I couldn't say. I don't consume much msm including the abc very much these days.

Once upon a time the ABC would have prominent Palestinian and Israeli spokespeople on Lateline, often at the same time. That stopped years ago. It may have started again but I wouldn't know.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Chief has been wonderful in spreading the word about this amazing Aboriginal fundraiser for the Victorian Aboriginal Child Care Agency for VACCA. VACCA do incredible work with struggling Aboriginal families. My daughter in law and best mate are running it through their school. Many wonderful big footy posters have contributed. If you would like to make a donation please do so in the link below.

https://community-hub-vacca.raisely.com/seansimpsonloyolacollege

Thanks to the poster who made a $2 donation. It is much appreciated. If everyone who came into this thread made a $2 donation a significant difference would be made to Aboriginal children. Every cent counts.

 

[yodellinhank]

Thanks to the poster who made a $2 donation. It is much appreciated. If everyone who came into this thread made a $2 donation a significant difference would be made to Aboriginal children. Every cent counts.

Victorian Aboriginal Child Care Agency has a direct donation link on their page
Vacca.org/donate

 

[Engimal v3]

Can you give some examples of the media leaning right.

I primarily watch ch10 news and read the age. And they are both very progressive.

Sure sky news speaks to conservatives and the herald sun has many op Ed’s by conservatives.

But what other examples can you provide

(I’m not disagreeing just interested in what the media I don’t consume says)

I don't think I'd consider The Age or Channel 10 progressive, let alone very progressive.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Victorian Aboriginal Child Care Agency has a direct donation link on their page
Vacca.org/donate

The link I have shared is a direct donation link to their page. It goes direct to their page and direct to their account and when you go to donate on their page and then find a friend you will find the exact link I gave you

 

[the big lebowski]

I don't think I'd consider The Age or Channel 10 progressive, let alone very progressive.

They are very progressive on race, gender and trans issues imo