NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed. Part 3

[Wosh]

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

Process Plan - https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/do...erms-of-Reference-and-Process-Plan-FINAL-.pdf

AFL Ends Investigation - 'Imperfect resolution' as Hawks probe ends, no one charged

DO NOT QUOTE THREADS FROM OTHER BOARDS

 

[jj15]

No surprise. Textbook response to racism claims against Aboriginals.

1. Deny it took place
2. If it is still pursued discredit the Aboriginal with stereotypical accusations
3. Repeat and Rinse

Happens over and over

No surprise. Textbook response against Non- Indigenous peoples denying being racist.

1. Say it took place.
2. If evidence is given to the contrary that provides context then claim that it is just a stereotypical accusation.
3. Claim those defending themselves are repeating historical injustices of denial.

 

[South of the Yarra]

No surprise. Textbook response against Non- Indigenous peoples denying being racist.

1. Say it took place.
2. If evidence is given to the contrary that provides context then claim that it is just a stereotypical accusation.
3. Claim those defending themselves are repeating historical injustices of denial.

And there is the predicted and expected response. How could an accusation of racism against Aboriginals ever be true when the accused are wealthy middle aged white men. Just couldn’t happen.

 

[HairyO]

No surprise. Textbook response to racism claims against Aboriginals.

1. Deny it took place
2. If it is still pursued discredit the Aboriginal with stereotypical accusations
3. Repeat and Rinse

Happens over and over

Text book response being the showing of actual evidence to refute claims.

I mean, how DARE Hawthorn show evidence that its all a load of crap. How VERY DARE they !!

1. Fanciful claims made which most assume are grossly exaggerated but some believe 100% based on vibe/ideology/Clarko = evil whitey
2. 2 years goes by and still zero evidence exists to back up even one of the claims and more are now seeing it for what it is but that small group of believers still 100% hang to them as true
3. Court case finally happens and the defence sets out its case showing over and over that there is zero foundation to anything which even more now see, with that small group of delusionals shouting "SEE RACISM !!"

No, we see the truth.

The truth is the claims were bullshit in the beginning and they are bullshit now.

Rather than focus on real issues which need real solutions this has just been a shitshow from the moment Jeff hired a charletan to write a report and Rusty rushed a terribly researched article.

We knew it then and know it now.

 

[HairyO]

A very loud, very close warning shot has been fired towards club coaches/staff "meddling" in player's private lives. (Where are the Player Managers in all this? They should be right in the middle)

Clubs will be less willing to take risks in recruitment, as they will have less control or willingness to influence a players attitudes and professionalism. A greater emphasis will be placed on "values" (based on whose definition?). Players will be held to a higher standard of professionalism in future - for draftees especially.

Less risks will be taken on players with perceived negative influences (alcohol, drugs, commitment to training, social groups, etc) - the further a player is away from being "local, middle-class, private school, hard worker from a good family (insert your own stereotype)" the less likely they are to be given a chance. The truly elite players will have their transgressions overlooked as it always has - it's the 'average' draftees will be the ones most affected.

Rendell was sacked for saying this is what is happening. Everyone knew it. The AFL for sure knew it. But he said it so they had to discredit him.

Mifsud for sure knew it but saw a chance to further his own career and leapt at it. 12 years on and its the same today as it was then.

 

[Toump Ass]

Most meetings I've had in the past have usually had meeting minutes, never audio I admit. From what I am reading it seems the club was actually quite good at documenting player welfare discussions with players.

It would be a pretty big thing for the club to lie about the meeting not taking place at all. I doubt an AFL club would have either the desire or ability to pull that level of deception.

Didn't the meeting take place at the players house?

Coaches and players meet up for coffees etc. all the time id be stunned if there was documentation on ten percent of this at any club.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Text book response being the showing of actual evidence to refute claims.

I mean, how DARE Hawthorn show evidence that its all a load of crap. How VERY DARE they !!

1. Fanciful claims made which most assume are grossly exaggerated but some believe 100% based on vibe/ideology/Clarko = evil whitey
2. 2 years goes by and still zero evidence exists to back up even one of the claims and more are now seeing it for what it is but that small group of believers still 100% hang to them as true
3. Court case finally happens and the defence sets out its case showing over and over that there is zero foundation to anything which even more now see, with that small group of delusionals shouting "SEE RACISM !!"

No, we see the truth.

The truth is the claims were bullshit in the beginning and they are bullshit now.

Rather than focus on real issues which need real solutions this has just been a shitshow from the moment Jeff hired a charletan to write a report and Rusty rushed a terribly researched article.

We knew it then and know it now.

So, a player being allegedly drunk / drug affected at an airport is evidence that racism did not take place. Unfortunately, you are so naive to what happens with racism accusations. You really have no idea the cover ups that take place.

 

[South of the Yarra]

'We' lol. the old mythical 'We'. So, a player being allegedly drunk / drug affected at an airport is evidence that racism did not take place. Unfortunately, you are so naive to what happens with racism accusations. You really have no idea the cover ups that take place.

 

[HairyO]

So, a player being allegedly drunk / drug affected at an airport is evidence that racism did not take place. Unfortunately, you are so naive to what happens with racism accusations. You really have no idea the cover ups that take place.

No. Did anyone say this?

A number of claims have been made, with the key one being racism saw their welfare being ignored. Hawthorn listed the times the player screwed up on their own but the club tried to help.

We are seeing some of the coverups. Us general public types had no idea he had drug and alcohol problems, money problems, or any other problems which the club tried to help him through.

The 2 saddest parts of this saga are that clubs will generally keep away from players with problematic histories and clubs will be more inclined to not go out of their way to help players who are in trouble.

While you jump at shadows and see racism everywhere. Because vibe.

 

[South of the Yarra]

No. Did anyone say this?

A number of claims have been made, with the key one being racism saw their welfare being ignored. Hawthorn listed the times the player screwed up on their own but the club tried to help.

We are seeing some of the coverups. Us general public types had no idea he had drug and alcohol problems, money problems, or any other problems which the club tried to help him through.

The 2 saddest parts of this saga are that clubs will generally keep away from players with problematic histories and clubs will be more inclined to not go out of their way to help players who are in trouble.

While you jump at shadows and see racism everywhere. Because vibe.

I see racism everywhere, because racism is everywhere.

 

[Mercy Seat]

No surprise. Textbook response to racism claims against Aboriginals.

1. Deny it took place
2. If it is still pursued discredit the Aboriginal with stereotypical accusations
3. Repeat and Rinse

Happens over and over

Not to discredit your post because this has typically been a response to racism towards Aboriginals for a long long time. I certainly empathise with the accusers and have kept a really open mind with this.

But are you open to the idea that the Peterson claims may be false at all?

I’ve spoken with people at the club throughout that period and have heard indirectly that the guy is just not an honest person and deeply troubled. Most people at hawthorn and from what I understand, most Aboriginal players who played with him believe this about him.

I think some of the other claims have merit and know for a fact that there were some things that we as a club could have done a lot better throughout that period. But I honestly think that tying the other claims with Peterson’s have done a massive disservice to this whole thing and it really is a giant mess accordingly.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Rendell was sacked for saying this is what is happening. Everyone knew it. The AFL for sure knew it. But he said it so they had to discredit him.

Mifsud for sure knew it but saw a chance to further his own career and leapt at it. 12 years on and its the same today as it was then.

Id say it's even more true today than it was 12 years ago. The Hawks have shown a definite preference for drafting kids with good character recently (Sam even mentioned stated that himself).

List spots are tighter than ever these days, clubs really can't afford to take a risk on players with those types of issues (unless of course they are a rare talent like Dusty or Buddy).

 

[HairyO]

Id say it's even more true today than it was 12 years ago. The Hawks have shown a definite preference for drafting kids with good character recently (Sam even mentioned stated that himself).

List spots are tighter than ever these days, clubs really can't afford to take a risk on players with those types of issues (unless of course they are a rare talent like Dusty or Buddy).

Yep there will always be the exception. Stengle an example. And the Cats had to go into coverup overdrive after he slipped.

 

[Osho]

It's playing on character. I can't say I find it either sensational or remotely damning of character.

Yep, but character assassination more than character analysis, they may have left out lots of good bits.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Didn't the meeting take place at the players house?

Coaches and players meet up for coffees etc. all the time id be stunned if there was documentation on ten percent of this at any club.

From what I have read it seems it took place at and office at the club. Someone can correct me on this if they know otherwise. The Hawks appear to be very good at keeping records relating to player welfare discussions (look at what they have on hand about Peterson's issues).

As I said before if they can't prove this specific claim I think they (the players and also the ABC) are in trouble.

All of the other claims (calling Cyril Humphrey, Jeffs bad taste joke, etc) I doubt would come close to passing any legal threshold of racism.

 

[jj15]

And there is the predicted and expected response. How could an accusation of racism against Aboriginals ever be true when the accused are wealthy middle aged white men. Just couldn’t happen.

You’re the only one saying that you realise?
Who else here is saying that?

You just use broad grandiose statements that have nothing to do with the particulars of this case.

 

[burge13]

No surprise. Textbook response to racism claims against Aboriginals.

1. Deny it took place
2. If it is still pursued discredit the Aboriginal with stereotypical accusations
3. Repeat and Rinse

Happens over and over

Couldn't possibly be lying, simply not an option.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Yep there will always be the exception. Stengle an example. And the Cats had to go into coverup overdrive after he slipped.

And of course being a ratbag crosses all racial / cultural groups.

And having good character is not the sole domain of upper, middle class private school kids either. The Hawks have a bunch of absolutely awesome Indigenous role models at the club at the moment (Impey, Amon) and the recent past (Burgoyne, Wingard, Bateman)

But it's hard to deny that clubs are seeming to be a lot more risk adverse recently at taking a punt on kids with troubled backgrounds / behavioural issues. And as you say this whole mess won't be helping in making them change their minds on that strategy.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

On a separate note I remember watching Peterson play against the Doggies at the MCG years ago and thinking to myself that this guy has a bit of talent.

And then being surprised when they let him go the next year so quickly.

Obviously it is coming to light now just why that was unfortunately for Carl. Just a sad waste of talent.

 

[HairyO]

And of course being a ratbag crosses all racial / cultural groups.

And having good character is not the sole domain of upper, middle class private school kids either. The Hawks have a bunch of absolutely awesome Indigenous role models at the club at the moment (Impey, Amon) and the recent past (Burgoyne, Wingard, Bateman)

But it's hard to deny that clubs are seeming to be a lot more risk adverse recently at taking a punt on kids with troubled backgrounds / behavioural issues. And as you say this whole mess won't be helping in making them change their minds on that strategy.

Of course. All clubs will have gone out of their wsy to coverup for players screwing up.

But now they are less likely to do this and more likely to palm it over to the AFL and make them responsible.

 

[Soggy2112]

The point of the drug stuff is to show they were only trying to take care of him and were trying to teach him to live the right way.

Because football clubs are well known for being places where people choose to abstain from drugs and alcohol…

 

[South of the Yarra]

Couldn't possibly be lying, simply not an option.

Couldn't possibly be telling the truth, not an option.

 

[Kram]

No surprise. Textbook response to racism claims against Aboriginals.

1. Deny it took place
2. If it is still pursued discredit the Aboriginal with stereotypical accusations
3. Repeat and Rinse

Happens over and over

That's it bro.

 

[sr36]

No surprise. Textbook response to racism claims against Aboriginals.

1. Deny it took place
2. If it is still pursued discredit the Aboriginal with stereotypical accusations
3. Repeat and Rinse

Happens over and over

This stuff isn't Aboriginal specific. That's any case. Probably is more effective with an Aboriginal claimant though

 

[JackOutback]

No. Did anyone say this?

A number of claims have been made, with the key one being racism saw their welfare being ignored. Hawthorn listed the times the player screwed up on their own but the club tried to help.

We are seeing some of the coverups. Us general public types had no idea he had drug and alcohol problems, money problems, or any other problems which the club tried to help him through.

The 2 saddest parts of this saga are that clubs will generally keep away from players with problematic histories and clubs will be more inclined to not go out of their way to help players who are in trouble.

While you jump at shadows and see racism everywhere. Because vibe.

The player having his own problems and being the victim of racism are not mutually exclusive.

 

[HairyO]

The player having his own problems and being the victim of racism are not mutually exclusive.

The player claiming a number of things with racism as the reason is being shown to be mutually exclusive with the truth.