NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed. Part 3

[Wosh]

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread.
Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the report button, please and thank you.

If you feel upset or need to talk you can call either Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 or Lifeline on 13 11 14 at any time.

- Crisis support for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders 13YARN (13 92 76) 13YARN - Call 13 92 76 | 24 /7

This is a serious topic, please treat it as such.

Videos, statements etc in the OP here:

NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

Process Plan - https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/do...erms-of-Reference-and-Process-Plan-FINAL-.pdf

AFL Ends Investigation - 'Imperfect resolution' as Hawks probe ends, no one charged

DO NOT QUOTE THREADS FROM OTHER BOARDS

 

[Crankyhawk]

It’s interesting that the Club is saying that the alleged meeting between Peterson and the coaches in which Clarkson told him he needed to tell his partner to terminate her pregnancy didn’t actually occur.

Not that Peterson misconstrued the advice given to him from the coaches or something similiar, they are saying that it didn’t occur at all.

That’s pretty big. This whole saga to my mind hinges on whether this meeting took place and what was said in it.

All the other incidents (Jeff’s torn jeans comment, Cyril being called Humphrey, Clarko asking about the skin colour difference) are to most independent observers more bad taste / possibly culturally insentitive but wouldn’t pass the threshold of being racist.

All the initial reporting was centred around that alleged meeting in which the player was instructed to terminate their partners pregnancy. And the club has now said that no such meeting ever occurred.

There can’t be any middle ground with this one, one of the two sides is flat out lying.

or Peterson was under influence of substances and so can't accurately recall - which is different to flat out lying ie he believes what he is saying to be true, but doesn't have corroborative evidence..

 

[Elixuh]

Skybus comes every 10 minutes.

Doesn’t it say he said he had no money

 

[peetoo]

Sounds like we keep better records than Tullamarine do

 

[sr36]

Doesn’t it say he said he had no money

Good point.

 

[HairyO]

Sounds like we keep better records than Tullamarine do

This is just social records too. I imagine our medical records are best practice.

 

[skipper kelly]

This is just social records too. I imagine our medical records are best practice.

Did make me laugh (not directed at your club). I heard supporters of another club say that a while back.

 

[The Feeder Club]

This is just social records too. I imagine our medical records are best practice.

You mean you're not leaving them in the bin outside for channel seven to pick up any longer?

 

[HairyO]

You mean you're not leaving them in the bin outside for channel seven to pick up any longer?

Dont think that was the club. Wasnt it a nurse breaking the law for $5k ?

We are seeing how good the Hawks are at maintaining records.

 

[campbell]

Gawd, here we go again.

Duck and cover guys, you know who I mean.

 

[Rob R]

What does that have to do with it?

If shown to be true, then Hawthorn will probably it goes to-
-Diminishing credibility
-Attacking the damages argument by saying Petersens failure to have a successful career was his own fault due to long standing issues
-Club asking him about drugs and finances was justified and meant to assist.

On SM-A136B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Simon Crawshay]

or Peterson was under influence of substances and so can't accurately recall - which is different to flat out lying ie he believes what he is saying to be true, but doesn't have corroborative evidence..

Given the severity of the claim (being told to terminate a pregnancy) you'd have to think he would remember when that particular meeting did (or possibly did not) go down.

The whole case to my (albeit non legal) view seems to be narrowing down to what was said at that meeting.

If Peterson can't recall when the meeting occurred/ who was even present at it then the players (and the ABC) are in some serious strife.

 

[parsons nose]

Peterson is a troubled young man. His troubles started well before he landed at Waverley. Hawthorn would be ruing the day they sent him a lifeline after his failed attempt at a career at Jolimont.

 

[demondavey]

I’d just call it poor journalism.

I remember at the time when this first broke hearing Caroline Wilson state that she was surprised that the ABC published the story given the lack of hard evidence to back it up (or words to that effect).

And yes there is a trend with the ABC lately that there journalistic standards do falter when they feel like they can champion one of their causes. They are a long, long way from being the impartial broadcaster that they are meant to be.

I’d say the odds of the ABC being on the wrong end of a lawsuit from the coaches has increased quite a bit after what I’ve read today.

I guess they need to keep up with media being flooded with right wing Murdoch press that is designed to champion the right at all costs.

 

[demondavey]

Going the character assassination angle is interesting given he's already admitted to addiction issues.

They are reinforcing it and going harder than ever to try and totally deconstruct him. This leads into ‘you can’t be believed re anything you say’ hence the conversation re termination is put in total doubt.

 

[parsons nose]

I guess they need to keep up with media being flooded with right wing Murdoch press that is designed to champion the right at all costs.

You might be surprised to learn Aunty has been moving steadily to the right for a number of years now. It’s no longer the bastion of left wing politics it once was.

 

[Toump Ass]

That claim especially about the forced termination, now it appears that the meeting didn’t even occur? That blows my mind TBH. How can you publish a claim that damaging without hard evidence?

Wait "hard evidence' is there that Carl is lying about the meeting taking place?

 

[Tonythetiger]

For mine, that's the saddest part about this whole thing. As fans, we lost 3-4 seasons of Cyril (maybe another premiership) to early retirement. For Cyril, he lost basically everything.

Even his family and community appear to be (or have been) against him. It's Cyril and Shannyn against the world.

JML and Peterson now have elements of their passed put into print - elements that they would obviously have preferred to keep out of the public eye. It may have been 'known' to some Hawthorn fans, but there's a big difference between ITK's sharing rumours on a message board, and a declaration of fact in court documentation.

..After all this time I don't think the Rioli's will have achieved anything they hoped to. If anything they have worsened the potential of future First Nation people having AFL careers.

Agree with what you have said except for the last part, in what way have they worsened the potential of future First Nation people having careers?

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Wait "hard evidence' is there that Carl is lying about the meeting taking place?

Someone stating something occured is not hard evidence. Hard evidence would be audio recording, meeting minutes, corroborating statements from someone else at the meeting, etc.

And the club has now denied the meeting ever took place.

Without any kind of actual evidence it is Carl's word against an AFL club and I get the feeling Carl will not come across as a very reliable witness in any kind of legal proceeding.

 

[peetoo]

Wait "hard evidence' is there that Carl is lying about the meeting taking place?

Surely we’ve seen enough to tv about legal stuff real or fictional to know courts try to discredit witnesses, blur the ‘truth’

 

[South of the Yarra]

No surprise. Textbook response to racism claims against Aboriginals.

1. Deny it took place
2. If it is still pursued discredit the Aboriginal with stereotypical accusations
3. Repeat and Rinse

Happens over and over

 

[Tonythetiger]

Surely we’ve seen enough to tv about legal stuff real or fictional to know courts try to discredit witnesses, blur the ‘truth’

I would think that basically a lot of it would hinge on whether Peterson can or can't be believed. Even if the meeting did happen, I don't think it's a slam dunk kind of thing where it proves that this was racially motivated or anything. It's obviously a horrible thing for someone to go through and very traumatising but if we took race completely out of the equation you would probably say It's more a gross overstepping of a boundary.

Abortion is a weird issue, high support for legal abortion in Australia, women's empowerment movements about body autonomy but then that someone could suggest to another person it's the right thing feels pretty abhorrent.

I'd also question if Clarko ever said this to Peterson out of hours and not in a workplace setting, like just as a mentor giving him life advice, I'm not sure how Hawthorn get dragged into that.

 

[Toump Ass]

Someone stating something occured is not hard evidence. Hard evidence would be audio recording, meeting minutes, corroborating statements from someone else at the meeting, etc.

What do you do for a job? Have you had a meeting before? Do you have audio recordings of them?

Me personally, I have meetings all the time, occasionally there'll be a follow up email, but usually I just say something polite and **** off back to bigfooty. And the minutes are very rarely recorded unless it's a major project meeting with multiple departments/ clients etc.

Why would you take notes that you told a player to terminate their unborn child lmao.

And the club has now denied the meeting ever took place.

And you believe them, because why?

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Agree with what you have said except for the last part, in what way have they worsened the potential of future First Nation people having careers?

A very loud, very close warning shot has been fired towards club coaches/staff "meddling" in player's private lives. (Where are the Player Managers in all this? They should be right in the middle)

Clubs will be less willing to take risks in recruitment, as they will have less control or willingness to influence a players attitudes and professionalism. A greater emphasis will be placed on "values" (based on whose definition?). Players will be held to a higher standard of professionalism in future - for draftees especially.

Less risks will be taken on players with perceived negative influences (alcohol, drugs, commitment to training, social groups, etc) - the further a player is away from being "local, middle-class, private school, hard worker from a good family (insert your own stereotype)" the less likely they are to be given a chance. The truly elite players will have their transgressions overlooked as it always has - it's the 'average' draftees will be the ones most affected.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

A very loud, very close warning shot has been fired towards club coaches/staff "meddling" in player's private lives. (Where are the Player Managers in all this? They should be right in the middle)

Clubs will be less willing to take risks in recruitment, as they will have less control or willingness to influence a players attitudes and professionalism. A greater emphasis will be placed on "values" (based on whose definition?). Players will be held to a higher standard of professionalism in future - for draftees especially.

Less risks will be taken on players with perceived negative influences (alcohol, drugs, commitment to training, social groups, etc) - the further a player is away from being "local, middle-class, private school, hard worker from a good family (insert your own stereotype)" the less likely they are to be given a chance. The truly elite players will have their transgressions overlooked as it always has - it's the 'average' draftees will be the ones most affected.

Ive seen this with Hawthorns recruitment policies the last four or so years.

The recruitment team has placed a real emphasis on recruiting kids from good families, solid backgrounds, etc (Josh Ward, Josh Weddle, Cameron McKenzie, etc).

It makes sense, when you have a choice between two similar talented kids it makes sense to choose the lower risk option.

Of course as you say for the exceptional level talents exceptions will always be made.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

What do you do for a job? Have you had a meeting before? Do you have audio recordings of them?

Me personally, I have meetings all the time, occasionally there'll be a follow up email, but usually I just say something polite and **** off back to bigfooty. And the minutes are very rarely recorded unless it's a major project meeting with multiple departments/ clients etc.

Why would you take notes that you told a player to terminate their unborn child lmao.

And you believe them, because why?

Most meetings I've had in the past have usually had meeting minutes, never audio I admit. From what I am reading it seems the club was actually quite good at documenting player welfare discussions with players.

It would be a pretty big thing for the club to lie about the meeting not taking place at all. I doubt an AFL club would have either the desire or ability to pull that level of deception.