NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

[Wosh]

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread.
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Videos, statements etc in the OP here:

NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

 

[EconomicDecline]

Who knew that the real issue in all this was what someone said about Sonia Hood.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

.

Weird how there seems to be more people who have a problem with her comments than those who've called out Jeff Kennett for flat out complaining that the leaking of the allegations was "unfair," and describing the revelation an indigenous Hawks player was allegedly told to have a pregnancy terminated as "a bump along the highway".

I wonder what possible reason there could be for that double standard.

??

Have you read any other threads besides this one??

Jeff Kennett gets flamed. Constantly.


Your comment is like walking into a brewery and finding it weird that everyone is drinking beer, instead of vodka.

 

[sr36]

Why are you so convinced about that? And why does it matter so much? There is no jury to unduly influence or trial to prejudice.

It matters because historically, abuses of power have been enabled, due to denials by those in power being automatically believed and thus complainants being ignored. The tendency to automatically side with the person in power has always been one of the issues faced by victims. Thus companies can no longer say - Macka is a great bloke, we fully believe his version of events that nothing untoward happened - or anything along those lines. They have to investigate with an open mind. She doesn't have to investigagte, but she has to wait for the investigation to occur.

It's probably gone too far the other way, so good on Sonja for trying to offer support to Clarko, but the support shouldn't have been a statement that she was confident in his verison of events - it's just a no no.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

It matters because historically, abuses of power have been enabled, due to denials by those in power being automatically believed and thus complainants being ignored. The tendency to automatically side with the person in power has always been one of the issues faced by victims.

I don't disagree with the above, but purely from an AFL perspective it was short sighted.

It left her open to criticism personally in the short term, it meant the club had to wind back the comments in a letter to members, and it also means that she's in a very difficult position moving forward.

Unless Clarkson is 100% exonerated from absolutely all allegations, she has left herself open to strong criticism.

If he did do even just some of what has been alleged, even if not intentionally - she either has to call him a liar, or continue to state publicly that she doesn't think he did anything wrong.

That's not a great position to put yourself in. And it's an unnecessary position to put yourself in.

 

[sr36]

I don't disagree with the above, but purely from an AFL perspective it was short sighted.

It left her open to criticism personally in the short term, it meant the club had to wind back the comments in a letter to members, and it also means that she's in a very difficult position moving forward.

Unless Clarkson is 100% exonerated from absolutely all allegations, she has left herself open to strong criticism.

If he did do even just some of what has been alleged, even if not intentionally - she either has to call him a liar, or continue to state publicly that she doesn't think he did anything wrong.

That's not a great position to put yourself in. And it's an unnecessary position to put yourself in.

As a president, she's responsible for governance - the club's policies and practices. There'd be a policy at North with a flow chart, like in most other companies, which she was probably party to writing - if there is a serious allegation against a manager by potential victims, you can't give your opinion about the merit of anyone's version of events, until it has been fully investigated. And if there isn't that policy, she needs to get to work on writing it. It was a gobsmacking comment in terms of governance.

 

[Chief]

As for Jackson - let's put it like this. If I ring you/message you late at night when it's expected you won't be working and could miss the call, reasonably, there's 12 hours of time that could pass.
Then if you're in a high position, it could be expected the message would be pushed down the line due to numerous calls from others and new calls coming in
Oh look, there's a business day gone.

So how long have they had to respond in detail? Far as I can see, they haven't said anything but "I did nothing wrong", have they? I haven't been watching the last couple of weeks so I could be wrong.

 

[Makeshift Park]

As a president, she's responsible for governance - the club's policies and practices. There'd be a policy at North, like in most other companies, which she was probably party to writing - if there is a serious allegation against a manager by potential victims, you can't give your opinion about the merit of anyone's version of events, until it has been fully investigated. And if there isn't that policy, she needs to get to work on writing it. It was a gobsmacking comment in terms of governance.

Your concern seems to be coming from a good place, but if you think that Sonja's comments impaired the AFL or Worksafe investigations, you're going to have to explain how.

Also, comparing Clarkson to a manager at North Melbourne is pretty tenuous when he isn't even employed by our club yet.

 

[sr36]

Your concern seems to be coming from a good place, but if you think that Sonja's comments impaired the AFL or Worksafe investigations, you're going to have to explain how.

Also, comparing Clarkson to a manager at North Melbourne is pretty tenuous when he isn't even employed by our club yet.

It's a pretty simple thing that the vast majority of companies abide by and are expected to abide by - you don't comment regarding what you believe occured in cases of serious allegations against emplyees that haven't been fully investigated.

School hires a new teacher. Just before that teacher commences work, he is accused of 3 cases of paedophlila at a previous school. Principal publicly states that she is fully confident in the new teachers version of events - before they've been fully investigated. Principal is forced to resign her position. End of story.

Sonja hood stuffed up.

I like her, but I'm shocked that she hasn't been pressured to walk that comment back and believe she would have been pressured if she wasn't someone seen to be positioned on the "right" side of the political fence.

 

[Makeshift Park]

School hires a new teacher. Just before that teacher commences work, he is accused of 3 cases of paedophlila at a previous school. Principal publicly states that she is fully confident in the new teachers version of events - before they've been fully investigated. Principal is forced to resign her position. End of story.

The risk in this scenario is that the teacher will be in a position where they can harm students.

Even if the worst case scenario eventuates, Clarkson wasn’t in a position where he could harm our indigenous players when she made those comments and he still isn’t in that position because he isn’t our coach yet.

 

[sr36]

The risk in this scenario is that the teacher will be in a position where they can harm students.

Even if the worst case scenario eventuates, Clarkson wasn’t in a position where he could harm our indigenous players when she made those comments and he still isn’t in that position because he isn’t our coach yet.

The teacher would have been stood down pending the investigation, like Clarko, so it's the same position. Hood's comment went against any decent policy regarding serious allegations against a current or incoming employee. It was an unforced error.

 

[Altum Volantes]

The main thing is that they are able put this highly traumatic and impactful experience behind them…

…and get back to work ASAP.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

So how long have they had to respond in detail? Far as I can see, they haven't said anything but "I did nothing wrong", have they? I haven't been watching the last couple of weeks so I could be wrong.

The moment it went to print they had no option. They go into detail on what the potential incident is and they get labelled gaslighters etc.
Say absolutely nothing, they get hounded for a response

 

[Makeshift Park]

The teacher would have been stood down pending the investigation, like Clarko, so it's the same position. Hood's comment went against any decent policy regarding serious allegations against a current or incoming employee. It was an unforced error.

The allegations in the original story were terrible, but they don't present analogous risks for the North Melbourne football club to those that arise in a situation where a possibly pedophiliac teacher is working unsupervised with children.

 

[sr36]

The allegations in the original story were terrible, but they don't present analogous risks for the North Melbourne football club to those that arise in a situation where a possibly pedophiliac teacher is working unsupervised with children.

Totally agree. Except it's not about protecting the workplace - the standing down part of a policy does that.

It's about offering protection to both the accused and accuser. The Principal can't state that they believe the accusers version of events either. The Principal just has to shut up. It's the standard workplace policy and practice regarding serious allegations, which Sonja didn't follow. She got off lightly and I doubt she'll say it again.

 

[Makeshift Park]

Totally agree. Except it's not about protecting the workplace - the standing down part of a policy does that.

It's about offering protection to both the accused and accuser. The Principal can't state that they believe the accusers version of events either. The Principal just has to shut up. It's the standard workplace policy and practice regarding serious allegations, which Sonja didn't follow. She got off lightly and I doubt she'll say it again.

Okay. I accept you've got a problem with her comment.
I've said my piece about how I don't.
I don't think the paedophile teacher analogy will help this conversation progress any further.
Let's agree that the most important thing here is getting to the bottom of what really happened at Hawthorn.

 

[HairyO]

So how long have they had to respond in detail? Far as I can see, they haven't said anything but "I did nothing wrong", have they? I haven't been watching the last couple of weeks so I could be wrong.

How should they respond ?

Do they name them? Go in to details from the private discussions and air all the dirty laundry which led to the events in question?

Call them liars ?

 

[sr36]

Okay. I accept you've got a problem with her comment.
I've said my piece about how I don't.
I don't think the paedophile teacher analogy will help this conversation progress any further.
Let's agree that the most important thing here is getting to the bottom of what really happened at Hawthorn.

Totally agree that the whole industry and all of us really need to shut up until the investigation has been concluded or probably resolved in some non-conclusive way.

In terms of the paedophile thing, what the allegation actually is shouldn't matter in terms of how to respond- just whether or not the organisation deems it serious enough to roll out their serious allegation protocol. I would have thought this fits the bill we're yhou'd roll out the same protocol? Personally though, I think she forgot to check the protocols and said something dumb without thinking it through, which is bloody easy to do in a pressure situation.

 

[JyeDye]

Who knew that the real issue in all this was what someone said about Sonia Hood.

They really shouldn't have merged that thread into this one as I genuinely cannot believe the amount of people that give a shit about a misinterpreted press release and tweet.

 

[ferball]

Not too much praise over claiming that North has a "great list".

I know. So bad. What she should have said was "We have a shit list and the sooner as we can delist all these useless spuds and start again the better off we'll be." She probably should have named a few of them and singled them out too. Maybe she should have gone with:

"We can start with Ben Cunnington. Doesn't have the balls to play footy anymore. Ben McKay isn't even a real person and LDU promotes alcopopholism. They all need to go."

She's copped all sorts of crap, mostly from men with egos that are inversely proportional to the size of their hearts (and knobs.)

And all of the shit she cops comes because she supports our players, staff and the club itself and won't publicly throw them under a bus. So because of that its pretty easy for North supporters to have contempt for people that continually criticise her. Its the only reasonable response.

 

[Makeshift Park]

Let’s face it, Clarkson would have to be Hannibal Lector’s shadier brother for North to not want him coaching them wouldn’t he?

Let’s face it, you’re using a delicate discussion involving allegations of human rights abuses to troll North Melbourne supporters.

 

[Slartibartfast]

I can guarantee that the specific allegations were not supplied to the accused.

It was a vague request to respond to some unspecified allegations that occurred while the accused were at Hawthorn.

Would you respond if someone you didn’t know emailed you or left a voice message asking for comment on unspecified occurrences from years ago?

Fagan has a media manager at Brisbane and Clarkson has a manager. Any competent journalist who actually wanted comment would have contacted those conduits and the first thing they would do is request the specifics of the allegations. That didn’t happen.

Here is the follow up statement the ABC made , clearly they did thier best to get a response from all parties.


It has been stated or implied that the three former Hawthorn employees named in the story were denied a fair opportunity to properly respond to the ABC’s reporting.

This is incorrect.

On Monday 19 September and into the following day all three were contacted multiple times by the ABC, via email, phone call and text message. Also contacted were the media teams at Hawthorn and the Brisbane Lions and the personal management of one of the individuals.

They were provided with all relevant information about the allegations. They were asked detailed and open-ended questions that gave them the opportunity to fully respond to all the allegations.

After initially receiving no response, the ABC contacted all the parties again and offered them more time in which to respond. We again received no response to the questions.

Correcting the Record - Media Centre - About the ABC

Information about the Australian Broadcasting Corporation including history, management, corporate reports, plans and submissions and the latest news from our media centre.

about.abc.net.au

 

[sr36]

I know. So bad. What she should have said was "We have a s**t list and the sooner as we can delist all these useless spuds and start again the better off we'll be." She probably should have named a few of them and singled them out too. Maybe she should have gone with:

"We can start with Ben Cunnington. Doesn't have the balls to play footy anymore. Ben McKay isn't even a real person and LDU promotes alcopopholism. They all need to go."

She's copped all sorts of crap, mostly from men with egos that are inversely proportional to the size of their hearts (and knobs.)

And all of the s**t she cops comes because she supports our players, staff and the club itself and won't publicly throw them under a bus. So because of that its pretty easy for North supporters to have contempt for people that continually criticise her. Its the only reasonable response.

I'm not sure why you feel it needs to be an extreme one way or the other.

She's thanking the bloke she had sacked who had coached the club to an awful season, she really didn't need to make up some rubbish that he had a great list at his disposal - from which follows that he was just really shit at his job. She was criticised for claiming the list was great and retreated from it - because it really was a silly thing to say.

 

[Jetafl]

Compared to Kane Cornes, he's a genius.

Kane Cornes what a respected highly regarded media pundit.

 

[Sky]

What is Hawthorn’s longest premiership drought between their first premiership to current day? Is it 1992 to 2007?

 

[blackshadow]

Here is the follow up statement the ABC made , clearly they did thier best to get a response from all parties.


It has been stated or implied that the three former Hawthorn employees named in the story were denied a fair opportunity to properly respond to the ABC’s reporting.

This is incorrect.

On Monday 19 September and into the following day all three were contacted multiple times by the ABC, via email, phone call and text message. Also contacted were the media teams at Hawthorn and the Brisbane Lions and the personal management of one of the individuals.

They were provided with all relevant information about the allegations. They were asked detailed and open-ended questions that gave them the opportunity to fully respond to all the allegations.

After initially receiving no response, the ABC contacted all the parties again and offered them more time in which to respond. We again received no response to the questions.

Correcting the Record - Media Centre - About the ABC

Information about the Australian Broadcasting Corporation including history, management, corporate reports, plans and submissions and the latest news from our media centre.

about.abc.net.au

Ahhh the spin piece.

Of course no actual details of what was provided to the individuals.

It's butt covering 101.