NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

[Wosh]

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Videos, statements etc in the OP here:

NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

 

[sr36]

I’ve said all along eventually this thing could be to get everyone in a court of law and under cross examination. I’d be fine with that.

I most certainly think the coaches should be able to continue to work, and the media sentiment seems definitely to be swinging that way. Especially if the players are being offered a pathway to resolution but refuse to take it.

Can’t see how anything else would be fair on the coaches.

I think people should generally be allowed to continue to work until a conclusion is found, unless they pose a potential risk (could possibly argue that in a case like this), or perhaps if they were still in a position of authority over the claimant. I'd have no qualms with them going back to work. However, what I think doesn't matter. The AFL, Brisbane, North and the coaches will get absolutely smashed if they return to work before a conclusion.

If by the media sentiment, you are referring to the footy talking heads, they'll ultimately bow to and agree with external sentiment, which will condemn them going to work.

 

[faible]

The irony of lecturing me about understanding the context in a thread about racism.

What irony?

Given you seem to completely fail at understanding the context despite it being described to you, it would seem there's no irony whatsoever at having to explain context.

 

[perplexed]

That'd depend on what they felt would come out in a court case, which is where this is likely to head if there is no settlement.

Sure, but I doubt what would come out would be worse than the allegations already aired. If they sign NDA's the allegations will still be public but their defense won't be. They say they want to clear names, an NDA doesn't do that.

 

[South of the Yarra]

As I keep trying to tell you, understanding the context of his comment is important before deciding it's racist.

If someone of indigenous descent is aware of the wada meme at the time they can feel free to comment, but it seems to me it's quite new to you and therefore you've decided it can only be a racist thing, used intentionally and knowingly by racist people, in an attempt to be racist.

You've also decided that understanding the context is irrelevant, despite the search function producing posts as far back as 2013 referring to the comment, quite clearly not having any mention or relation to race (unless WADA is a race now).

Sometimes context matters, understanding when and how a word is used matters - especially for a language like English where the usage of a word can change over time, and can simultaneously mean multiple things.

Take the word monkey or ape for example. It's not a racist word when used in one context, but is incredibly racist in another. Context matters.

Ok I will accept your invitation and comment. It was extremely poor judgement and extremely poor taste to post that in here. Just not smart.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Are they well aware of what that term also means to anyone of indigenous descent reading it here?

No they are not. They just don't think.

 

[faible]

Ok I will accept your invitation and comment. It was extremely poor judgement and extremely poor taste to post that in here. Just not smart.

It was a poor time to bring up that particular meme, no doubt, but for anyone familiar with that one it was very clearly not a racial comment.

I might not agree with the premise of what blackshadow was posting up to that point, but I can recognise that he wasn't intending that particular comment in a racial fashion.

 

[mcnulty]

The AFL, Brisbane, North and the coaches will get absolutely smashed if they return to work before a conclusion.

Disagree strongly with that. Particularly if the coaches participate and the players don’t. In that case the conclusion is being delayed through no fault of their own.

 

[sr36]

Sure, but I doubt it what would come out would be worse than the allegations already aired. If they sign NDA's the allegations will still be public but their defense won't be. They say they want to clear names, an NDA doesn't do that.

No, but it might keep their jobs and incomes. Their names might not be clearable. I'm assuming that meetings along these lines took place and whilst they can probably mitigate so that they don't come across as badly, they're unlikely to walk away with clear names. All assumption, but that seems more likely to me than it being total fabrication or totally justifiable intrusion.

The real NDA issue if things did occur is how widely they were known within Hawthorn. How many do you need to silence with NDAs?

 

[South of the Yarra]

I am finding this thread to be outrageous. And alleged racism fyi. I tend not to see people by colour but take a holistic approach to them and or their personal views.

Being of Nth African descent, I have copped my fair share of such commentary. It means nothing to me tbh. What annoys me more is when others take ownership of treatments on someone else's behalf. Kind of like stating those that are being slighted aren't smart enough to realise that, so I best pick up the baton for them.

Copping such commentary is very different to the experience many Aboriginal people have had. The commentary it is not the concern the horrors that have taken place are.

 

[The acurate one]

Copping such commentary is very different to the experience many Aboriginal people have had. The commentary it is not the concern the horrors that have taken place are.

And you won't find me disagreeing with you on that.

 

[faible]

Yes, the AFL terms of reference are clearly not the players terms of reference, dopey. Maybe you should take some of your own advice.

That's exactly what gouki88 said in the comment you replied to

According to the AFL statement the terms of reference was negotiated between a number of parties including the representatives of the players and their families;

Notice of Investigation: Hawthorn Football Club

The AFL today released the full terms of reference for the four-person panel led by senior lawyer Bernard Quinn KC into the independent investigation of allegations of inappropriate conduct referred to the AFL by the Hawthorn Football Club

www.afl.com.au

The terms of reference and process plan have been developed over the past three weeks following extensive consultation with the Investigation Panel and lawyers representing First Nations former players and families, and former Hawthorn coaches among others. Gordon Legal has coordinated that consultation process.

 

[Psicosis]

The AFL, Brisbane, North and the coaches will get absolutely smashed if they return to work before a conclusion.

By who?

 

[sr36]

According to the AFL statement the terms of reference was negotiated between a number of parties including the representatives of the players and their families;

Notice of Investigation: Hawthorn Football Club

The AFL today released the full terms of reference for the four-person panel led by senior lawyer Bernard Quinn KC into the independent investigation of allegations of inappropriate conduct referred to the AFL by the Hawthorn Football Club

www.afl.com.au

You use the term negotiation, but the AFL used the term "in consultation with". You can develop something "in consultation with" somebody, without satisfying or negotiating with that person.

 

[perplexed]

According to the AFL statement the terms of reference was negotiated between a number of parties including the representatives of the players and their families;

Notice of Investigation: Hawthorn Football Club

The AFL today released the full terms of reference for the four-person panel led by senior lawyer Bernard Quinn KC into the independent investigation of allegations of inappropriate conduct referred to the AFL by the Hawthorn Football Club

www.afl.com.au

There is a big difference between 'consultation' and 'negotiation'.

 

[Ricketz]

What irony?

Given you seem to completely fail at understanding the context despite it being described to you, it would seem there's no irony whatsoever at having to explain context.

If you are in a thread about racism, you should be aware of the context that your comments will have, and not use the boutique comments used in another racist thread as an excuse for using it in this one.

The term, when it was used in the Essendon Saga was racist. Just because you white fellas find it acceptable doesn't mean it is.

It is ridiculous you are defending it on the grounds of context when you are completely ignoring the greater context of the thread that you were having your irrelevant little private boys joke in.

Get it now? That is what irony is. You saying something that actually applies to you.

 

[The Warlord]

Will you be so fine with it if that elsewhere is a courtroom and you're looking at a very long time frame? Bearing in mind that tere's going to be a lot of pressure for the coaches to remain on the sidelines until there is an outcome

Pressure from who? The clubs that employ them are fine with them working, as is the AFL CEO.

 

[sr36]

Pressure from who? The clubs that employ them are fine with them working, as is the AFL CEO.

Pressure from the real media - not the AFL talking heads (but they'll follow the real media). Pressure from lobby groups. Pressure from the general public. Financial pressure from sponsors.

If your messiah gives your other messiah permission to begin, it won't come without significant cost.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Are Principals and Teachers who are accused of something serious allowed to keep working whilst the accusations are dealt with. No, they are stood down immediately until cleared. or found guilty.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Would be really surprised now if Fagan and Clarkson were not coaching next year.


I think the process of this investigation is working as well as it should be, despite the first couple of hysterical media reporting in the media.

Clarkson, Fagan and others named at Hawthorn are clearly given sufficient time and space to give their side of the events (behind closed doors obviously)

This investigation does need some time to be fully delved into and not part of the public domain either

 

[The Warlord]

Pressure from the real media - not the AFL talking heads (but they'll follow the real media). Pressure from lobby groups. Pressure from the general public. Financial pressure from sponsors.

If your messiah gives your other messiah permission to begin, it won't come without significant cost.

Who is "my messiah"?

 

[sr36]

Who is "my messiah"?

Ms. Hood.

Actually seems a pretty decent messiah to have to me - if you're into messiahs.

 

[blackshadow]

Ms. Hood.

Actually seems a pretty decent messiah to have to me - if you're into messiahs.

It’s Dr Hood to you.

 

[Laphroaig]

There is a big difference between 'consultation' and 'negotiation'.

You use the term negotiation, but the AFL used the term "in consultation with". You can develop something "in consultation with" somebody, without satisfying or negotiating with that person.

Yeah nah.

When an outcome is reached after "consultation" with a number of parties, each with different (and in part opposite) desires, agendas and preferred end states....

You can call it a purple unicorn if you like. But it is still a negotiation.

 

[The Warlord]

Are Principals and Teachers who are accused of something serious allowed to keep working whilst the accusations are dealt with. No, they are stood down immediately until cleared. or found guilty.

That's because they're dealing with children.

This is a very different situation.

James Hird kept coaching in 2013 while the AFL investigation was underway

 

[The Warlord]

Ms. Hood.

Actually seems a pretty decent messiah to have to me - if you're into messiahs.

I long ago lost any idea of what your "argument" is on this thread, and I'm pretty sure you have too.