NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

[Wosh]

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

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Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

 

[sleep]

Who are you punishing? Players that had nothing to do with this scandal. Coaches that had nothing to do with the scandal

The guys the made the alleged comments work at other clubs. Any punishment needs to be directed at the individuals involved - not Hawthorn, unless there's proof there was some club policy / direction.

This situation coupled with the Kennett situation that came out earlier this year makes me think its a club deep issue.

 

[gouki88]

Has it been outlined what year this story took place?

Not as far as I'm aware, it seemed to indicate the three-peat years, but I think the report was looking broadly at Clarkson's time there, especially pre-pandemic

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Hawks outed this.
If the Hawks hadn't outed this , we wouldn't know about it.

Do we want to discourage what they have done?
Do we want to encourage teams to hide past behaviour?

 

[Soapy V]

I have been told by old rellos and friends that Australia became a much more racist country once little Johnny Howard was elected Prime Minister in 1996.

Sounds politically motivated to me. I lived in Darwin Arnhem Land for more than a decade. Racism is mostly peddle by inner city hypocrites over anyone else

 

[Beerfish]

Emails aren't the same as a formal record

Incorrect

 

[Aussie in exile]

The AFL integrity unit will have this ticked off by lunchtime.

Broom, sweep, rug

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Except that we have more players with indigenous, African, Asian and Muslim heritage than ever before.

Most of the players recruited from private schools are on sports scholarships. They are not being recruited because they are private schoolboys. They become private schoolboys because they are going to get recruited.

You don’t know if it’s “most”, but anyway.

It’s irrelevant. How they got there doesn’t really matter (and as if those schools aren’t filtering themselves). The fact is the AFL cohort is being filtered through an environment in their early years that is far more white and far, far more privileged than most of Australia. They go on to become coaches, run clubs and run the league. It’s the same in big business.

The league is over represented by these types and it’s only natural it will struggle to relate from those of a different background when it brings them into its environment.

The league needs more diversity. Uncoupling itself from this school system would be a big start.

 

[St 07]

I am gobsmacked, have to say, when reading some of this in the last 24 hours, at any level

The accusation that someone told someone to terminate a unborn child and the rest. I do not know even where to start.

Could it be true? If it was true why was someone not smashed in the face? Is that the power relationship?? I do not know

Situations happen and people make decision but for a coach or the footy staff to get angular about such a decision. Forgetting about racial overtones the power overreach is unbelievable no matter what race

Because maybe the player was convinced that it was in their best interests to do so, rightly or wrongly

 

[Lingsface]

Not as far as I'm aware, it seemed to indicate the three-peat years, but I think the report was looking broadly at Clarkson's time there, especially pre-pandemic

Thankyou.

 

[jpfalvo]

If these allegations ring true , the AFL would have to come down pretty hard on the hawthorn football club and not just those involved surely.

Obviously all this constant corporate wank speak in response to these issues we’ve seen from the AFL and clubs time and time again is not enough?

The message clearly isn’t getting through.
Winning and profits trump EVERYTHING in this league.

Throw the book at them and then some ,remember the hawthorn football club has profited immensely during the time in question ,so they should be hung out to dry for it aswell.

Only then we might start to see some genuine attempt at genuine change, even if I suspect most of it will be at first just arse covering due to potential profits lost, the message will eventually get through, it has to

Gilligan and the AFL itself needs a review.
This talks to culture and an attitude of sweeping things under the carpet

I start with looking for a broom through AFL house, AFLPA who proves to be inept, the AFL media which is controlled PR and then the clubs.

Hawthorn is not alone here Id say. Nor would I say some of this being isolated to just first nations. They are most vulnerable. I think you will find its cultural

AFL places profit ahead of all else.

Different issue but look at the farcical drug policy, or duplicity and hypocricy in the way they have handled previous issues.

Very difficult to show "social" leadership, profit from it, but then sweep issues under the rug...cant have it both ways

Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk

 

[Rusty Brookes]

Incorrect

Emails between the two parties would be. But if it's just an email from one party to someone else not involved in the discussion, then I don't think it would be as strong evidence as a formal record of proceedings.

 

[Arr0w]

All nations have racism, let's not start ranking them to justify whether we are better or worse than others

 

[Soapy V]

I don't know whether it is an incredibly racist country or not, but it is more prevalent than people think it is. I taught in Indigenous communities for 13 years in WA and NT and it would make your stomach turn if you saw and heard the way some First Nations people are treated. I can't speak for the rest of the world, but racism in Australia is definitely alive and well.

I also know that most indigenous people hate the term First Nations

 

[Verdun]

It's also different to call a whole country racist just because a few are

Highlight my point re being defensive.

The real woke - I have the right if anyone says systemic racism exists to be offended.

 

[HairyO]

Was it prior to him being there?

The external group reached out to the 20 Aboriginal players who were at the club, so I am sure Burgoyne was one of them.

As for whether he, or any of the other players took part we dont know. We also dont know who the aggrieved players are. Nor do the club.

Only the external group know at the moment. And I assume within a day or 2 the AFL will know. I would hope that at some point Hawthorn and those accused will know as well, because they absolutely have a right to know who is accusing them, and what they are being accused of doing.

 

[ImaBeliever!]

There is nothing that can ever be done about the past. We need to do better now by learning from the past. The past is history and continually raising it is half the problem.

That’s wrong. How do you learn from the past if you don’t raise it? The wrongdoings of the past continues to affect us today, how does ignoring them lead to fixing any of that?


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[RegHickeyStand]

How did Hawthorn manage to keep this a secret for so long?

Wonder if this has anything to do with why Cyril Rioli wants nothing to do with the club.

Was my first thought.

 

[Aussie in exile]

That would possibly explain the timing.
If Brisbane had won, this story would have been released next week.

Without s doubt

 

[AsIfYouCare]

Not sure if this has been mentioned in the many preceding pages, but coaches must be accredited by the AFL, and the AFL has the power to remove accreditation of any coaches who breach the code of conduct.

Such a removal couldn't happen before the AFL investigation was complete, but de-accrediation would let North off the hook.

 

[Forward Press]

If they found out a F1 team made an unsafe release in pit lade during 2015, they aren't going to do s**t.

How much time needs to pass before that isn't reasonable? Genuine question.

If this happened in 1993 would we still be at risk of draft sanctions?

Of course not, but in this case it's not exactly ancient history.

It will depend on whatever the investigation uncovers obviously as to whether punishments for Hawthorn FC are warranted, pointless speculating about it now until the facts have been determined.

 

[Randomizor]

You don’t know if it’s “most”, but anyway.

It’s irrelevant. How they got there doesn’t really matter (and as if those schools aren’t filtering themselves). The fact is the AFL cohort is being filtered through an environment in their early years that is far more white and far, far more privileged than most of Australia. They go on to become coaches, run clubs and run the league. It’s the same in big business.

The league is over represented by these types and it’s only natural it will struggle to relate from those of a different background when it brings them into its environment.

The league needs more diversity. Uncoupling itself from this school system would be a big start.

You only have to look at Simpsons comments last year to see this is the case.

 

[Hoops]

Its growing faster than I can read it.

Imagine those of us that have actual work to do.

 

[gouki88]

There is nothing that can ever be done about the past. We need to do better now by learning from the past. The past is history and continually raising it is half the problem.

Straight from the John Howard playbook of "I didn't personally commit any wrongdoing, so don't expect me to bother trying to fix the situation"

 

[PrisonBars4life]

You have brought the game and the code into disrepute.

"Competitive Advantage" has absolutely nothing to do with it.

I'm expecting record fines and draft sanctions if proven correct. The fact you've seemingly tried to brush it under the rug should only increase the severity.

The fact your president back tracked in the press conference and confirmed they started offering welfare assistance to the victims only one week ago, AFTER they became aware of the ABC investigation, should also confirm to you how complicit Hawthorn were in all of this.

It's a really difficult one. On face value, there is no reason to sanction the club. Adelaide wasn't penalized for similar issues around player welfare. The query is, where does it stop? Coach sexually harasses staff - does that equal draft sanctions? The AFL has previously limited such punishments to activities of a performance enhancing/cheating nature.

The thing that doesn't sit well with me though is Hawthorn could completely get off here. They have completely brought the game into disrepute, they have potentially destroyed NMFC and potentially brought down a second club, which if it secures Dunkley would have been one of the flag favorites next year. That is completely aside from the human cost of the people involved. The woman who terminated a second pregnancy well after the Hawthorn ordeal seems to be completely ****ed up by the experience, it's just awful. Will leave a sour taste in the mouth if the fallout is borne by other clubs and Hawthorn are relatively untouched.

 

[Verdun]

It is actually quite refreshing to read the majority of posts on here having a understanding that racism exists and that what happened in the past impacts today.