NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

 

[jenny61_99]

Essendon also self reported. In many cases it may limit the punishment, but should not make them escape punishment.

“Self reported”

 

[Stumpy Pete]

Not wanting to down play the racial aspect of this but there is more than a hint of sexism in all of this. The notion that women are perhaps an inconvenience that can be taken care of through the simple confiscation of a SIM card - just shocking.

Regards

S. Pete

 

[bigm386]

Curious is coaches like Simpson, Hardwick and Bevo. Plus ex assistants at the Hawks like Bolton will be at least questioned.

 

[Descent]

Some people in the media would want to be very careful about what they say about this. Private conversations without any evidence of the actual conversation will have every lawyer lining up on behalf of Fagan and Clarko for damages for slander. Shocking if this is fact but I tend to think there are two sides to every story, especially emotive ones.

What do you think is the other side? Feel free to be as creative as you like.

 

[evo]

According to an article, neither Fagan or Clarkson were interviewed for this investigation.

Given our club's statement, and the fact neither Hodge or Burgoyne heard any of this that during their time at Hawthorn, it doesn't appear he was aware this was a thing.

You reckon Fagan and Clarko will flat out deny it?

Seems like a hard row to hoe, at least with the information we have so far.

 

[Chief]

I can see your point, but I think, for it to work well, they need to be in the clubs. Maybe you could have both?

I would say the AFL hires them and sends them to the clubs.

 

[Sphynx]

Can see this turning into a complete mess with fingers pointed and denial like no other (whether it's true or not)

North Melbourne & Brisbane: Wasn't at our club so not our problem

Hawthorn: No one currently at the club has been accused and we know nothing of it.

I'm a believer of innocent until proven guilty but if there are specific emails then those involved are done for

If not, then it's a s**t fight he said, she said.

If true, definitely should be consequences but I'm not sold on the racist angle of it. Think it's just a s**t thing regardless of race.

How have North and Brisbane displayed “wasn’t our problem” so far today by both standing down their coaches before the end of the day the story breaks?

In fact, the only club of the 3 to try and completely deflect any responsibility to act so far is Hawthorn.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

So does a church community get hurt when a Church Minister gets done for kiddy fiddling?

Unfortunately everyone suffers to some extent, but not nearly as much as the victims.

It's not about supporters 'getting hurt' per se. It's that the punishment that 'the club' cops doesn't actually hurt the perpetrators. It's hurts the supporters.

The actual perpetrators are long gone in most cases. Or as I said, just leave and get a high paying job in the corporate world.

The Melbourne Storm and Carlton salary cap punishments, the Essendon doping punishments etc.

It's just a strange situation.

 

[Atomboy]

If someone who did this isn’t racist what threshold do you have for someone to be racist?

It’s a fair comment, I guess I don’t know anymore.

Having been through the birth of a child recently I find the whole thing incredibly upsetting to be honest. Those poor families…..

 

[DamoESP]

Curious is coaches like Simpson, Hardwick and Bevo. Plus ex assistants at the Hawks like Bolton will be at least questioned.

Ratten would have to be questioned as well you would think.

They really need to get to bottom of understanding who knew what, and the only way you do that is to question all involved during the time periods that Clarko/Fagan were at the club.

 

[outabounds]

What do you think is the other side? Feel free to be as creative as you like.

I don't know mate but I don't believe everything people say unless there is some evidence. We have a legal system based of this premise.

 

[jenny61_99]

Left out countries where genocides have happened on purpose or?

Also no USA made me giggle.

Australia does extremely well in terms of racism compared to the rest of the world.

Tell that to the people who face it on a daily basis! JFC.

 

[happy_eagle]

Some people in the media would want to be very careful about what they say about this. Private conversations without any evidence of the actual conversation will have every lawyer lining up on behalf of Fagan and Clarko for damages for slander. Shocking if this is fact but I tend to think there are two sides to every story, especially emotive ones.

If a media organisation came to me and said "hey we are going to run an article that accuses you of coercing abortions and forcing the separation of indigenous families, do you care to comment?" and this was something that I had not done, I probably wouldn't respond with "no comment"

 

[Tas]

You reckon Fagan and Clarko will flat out deny it?

Seems like a hard row to hoe, at least with the information we have so far.

I have no idea. I am just suggestion he probably didn't know this was coming given he wasn't interviewed on it.

I am not sure how you can even have an "investigation" if you don't talk to all the people involved, it is probably why the AFL is going to conduct their own, because this is potentially a legal minefield if we hang people based on accusations alone.

 

[sr36]

Now that I think about it from the time I started following football (late 90's) Hawthorn were very white...struggling to think of any Indigenous footballers from that period to about 2005?

In the days of the vfl. They had the whitest public school zone and it was such a good zone that they didn't need to look beyond it.

 

[ImaBeliever!]

Learn to read through a balanced lens

Oh, what a troll. I don’t need a lens, I have 20/20 vision, unlike you obviously. Australia is built on racism and continues to struggle with it, and what is happening in the AFL is a microcosm compared to the rest of society. Stop living in denial, and stop speaking on behalf of Indigenous mob like a paternalistic mission-manager.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Corkintheocean]

Australia does extremely well in terms of racism compared to the rest of the world.

It does so precisely because of it's citizen's attempts (sometimes failing) to hold it to account.

Patriotism is about standing up for what you want your country to be, not defending it blindly, irrespective of its actions. You and that Soapy bloke would do well to think on that for a minute.

 

[Soapy V]

Oh, what a troll. I don’t need a lens, I have 20/20 vision, unlike you obviously. Australia is built on racism and continues to struggle with it, and what is happening in the AFL is a microcosm compared to the rest of society. Stop living in denial, and stop speaking on behalf of Indigenous mob like a paternalistic mission-manager.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

When in doubt or have nothing call someone a troll

 

[Stumpy Pete]

It’s a fair comment, I guess I don’t know anymore.

Having been through the birth of a child recently I find the whole thing incredibly upsetting to be honest. Those poor families…..

I read the comment as being cognisant that the investigation that gave light to these issues was focussed on the clubs “approach” to indigenous players.

Among many other things the AFL commissioned investigation needs to determine whether the alleged conversations were focussed only on indigenous players with familial/relationship issues or all young players with familial/relationship issues.

Regards

S. Pete

 

[gungho]

Disappointed in the handling of this by North Melbourne. I know it's a bomb shell and you've just been showered with plaudits after securing a premiership coach, but:

• why did it take you all day to release a statement?
• why have you worded the statement that "he will delay his tenure to allow time to participate in the investigation" In other words, reads that Clarkson will decide when he starts at North.
• why have you not, at the very least, recognised the other side, the horrific nature of the allegations and how, as a club, you condemn all racism.

This is a tough time for Sonja and co but she has failed today. (In my opinion).

 

[kozi]

Fagan claiming 0 knowledge is just laughable at this point.

What's next, Clarkson says he was on heavy medication for the 16 years he was coach and has no recollection of anything during that time.

 

[Descent]

I see this is the “no trolls” but “racists welcome” thread.

 

[1990crow]

Disappointed in the handling of this by North Melbourne. I know it's a bomb shell and you've just been showered with plaudits after securing a premiership coach, but:

• why did it take you all day to release a statement?
• why have you worded the statement that "he will delay his tenure to allow time to participate in the investigation" In other words, reads that Clarkson will decide when he starts at North.
• why have you not, at the very least, recognised the other side, the horrific nature of the allegations and how, as a club, you condemn all racism.

This is a tough time for Sonja and co but she has failed today. (In my opinion).

I tend to agree. Statement reads as arse covering.

 

[NewMelbournian]

The problem with the modern identity obsessed culture is jumping to the conclusion that the key variable is always identity. Any conflict between a man and a woman must be sexism. Any conflict between people of different races must be racism.

This country is one of the greatest countries on earth, with an extremely high standard of living, liberty, democracy, and prosperity. People who insist on painting Australia as some horrible place are doomed to a lifetime of being permanently miserable. Because I hate to break it to you, but this is about as good as it gets. A modern 1st world liberal democracy is literally the peak of human achievement across all of human history.

It is even more irritating when it is very wealthy people who are doing the complaining. You are in the highest socio-economic bracket, in one of the most advanced countries on earth, in the most advanced period in history. The 1% of the 1% of the 1%. If you can't be happy now, you never will be happy.

 

[HTPunter]

my take is that there is absolutely no reason to doubt the allegations themselves. What seems less clear is the ideology behind them (were the officials specifically targeting indigenous players, and how much of this can be attributed to maliciousnress, ignorance, or just unfortunate coincidence).

The latter seems almost irrelevant to me though, even if you take race out of the equation (which one should not) the things described are terrible and if we remove the mythologizing we get when thinking about footy and imagine these things happened in a normal 9 to 5, any boss who instigated that type of incursion into young impressionable employees lives in an attempt to control their personal lives with an iron fist would rightfully have their head on the chopping block for immediate sacking.

100%.

People saying that "but they didn't see if it happened to white players too, so it can't be racism" are sort of missing that the racism is actually almost secondary, the allegations are abhorrent regardless of who they did them too. It doesn't help matters to have more players manipulated and controlled in such an awful manner!

All allegations at this stage, definitely, but, and I emphasise this is a personal belief rather than any assertion of fact, I find it very difficult to believe this sort of thing has just been invented by the people involved.

Absolutely sickening. What has been alleged here is not something you would expect to hear in this time and place, and if true crosses all kinds of boundaries. There's a desire to win and be successful, but that should never cross the bounds of basic human decency

As disgusted as I and I'm sure every other Hawthorn supporter is, let's not just shrug our shoulders and push this aside. Let's use our memberships to push for a positive change in the club, so that we can have a club that deserves our support.

I'd much rather support a good club than a successful one, and we have a lot of rebuilding to do.

100%. I'm with you on that belief that it just seems to be too consistent amongst multiple people to be made up. And none of the players have done anything to make you think they'd be "professional victims".

I'll take another few years in football purgatory if it is all true and Clarkson needs to go. I'm simply not putting any money into the club until he's gone.

I'm hopeful it's more a Hawthorn issue and they need to clean house with officials that were aware of these goings on, I don't see how Kennett and Co could not have heard, but ultimately he's now our head coach and we have to take a stand. Would be weak as piss to not toom