How did Port Adelaide lose its soul?

[Forzaport]

The average person on here hasn't lost their passion for the club, but where on earth are the 20,000 people that attended round 22 2007, but didn't come last week?

Twenty.

Thousand.

People.

More than half the Port supporters that went to that game didn't come last week. I'm not talking about people like us who go week in week out and then all week post on messageboards, i'm talking about your average fan. Our average fans are soft and fairweather.

The most disgusting part about it (and i'm sure you've all experienced similar things) is that as a die hard, everyone at my workplace knows who I support, so when we get 16800 to a game and lose embarrassingly, i'm the one who cops it from everyone else at work while the fairweather w***ers put their head down and don't say a word.

In 2007 our average attendence was 27,870 in our 2 home finals the average was 41,352. Obviously some games attract more supporters than others. This year our average crowd is tracking at 21,636 so my concern is that 5k-10k drop in regular supporters. That's the most worrying for me, not the odd spike here and there from a successful campaign.

As for copping it, I generally give as good as I get and I often end up educating the ignorant. I once sat in a 6 person office with 5 crows supporters through some of our worse performances ever (2005 SF loss, losing almost every showdown for 4 years, black saturday). If nothing else, it gave me a bloody thick skin when it comes to banter.

 

[finbarr]

Unless the people doing the shit giving can produce proof of paid up Crows membership upon my request i just tell them they haven't earned the right to dish it out to me and they can go get ****ed until such time as proof of membership can be produced.

 

[Northalives]

I wouldnt expect most that post here would have lost their passion for the club, but that doesnt include the 15,000 odd who cant be bothered showing up anymore, dont want to be associated with a losing club, and who are predominantly contributing to the serious financial difficulties our club faces. I'd say that yes, the supporter base as a whole needs to take a lot of responsibility for our current predictament.

Point taken.

 

[silverfingers]

I will always be a PAFC supporter til I die - in the same fervent capacity now, and in whichever league they play in.
I guess my point was more about our AFL journey and it's precarious situation as it stands today.
Nevere, ever giving up, and depise people who do, or who refuse to go to games etc etc.
But stark reality is starting to hit..

There is the edge of insanity, and then there is the abyss....which is where we are..

 

[Froggy]

In 2007 our average attendence was 27,870 in our 2 home finals the average was 41,352. Obviously some games attract more supporters than others. This year our average crowd is tracking at 21,636 so my concern is that 5k-10k drop in regular supporters. That's the most worrying for me, not the odd spike here and there from a successful campaign.

As for copping it, I generally give as good as I get and I often end up educating the ignorant. I once sat in a 6 person office with 5 crows supporters through some of our worse performances ever (2005 SF loss, losing almost every showdown for 4 years, black saturday). If nothing else, it gave me a bloody thick skin when it comes to banter.

Did our crowds rise during 2007 though? I know we started off the year with everyone tipping us to go shit and instead we got better and better.

 

[Forzaport]

Did our crowds rise during 2007 though? I know we started off the year with everyone tipping us to go shit and instead we got better and better.

Not really. The Freo game was the last one for the year and we got close to 40k for that game but every other game bar the showdown was 24-27k

 

[Jonts]

Wait until we're back in the top 4 and you can't turn a corner without tripping over a pack of Port "supporters" who have magically rekindled their love of the club coincidentally at the same time that we're climbing the ladder.

Worse thing about going for a successful club Band Wagoners. that feeling they have the same connection that supporters who sat in the rain when times were hard

 

[Portology]

A few thoughts about this scapegoating of our own bandwagoners that is creeping in to the conversation:

First, I'm sure you recall the artificial Port-Magpies divide that created a damaging division where there didn't need to be one. Why create more division ourselves ?

Second, we are in absolutely no position to look down on our own bandwagoners as fourth class citizens somehow behind the players, the weekly-AAMI-attending self flagellants, and the 3-game-members in the hierarchy of castes. You really can't choose your relatives.

Finally, if we copy the core behaviour of our chief abuser (you know who I mean) in being petty, narrow minded & divisive even among our own, then they win, forever.

And another thing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE

 

[Portia]

Bandwagoners turn into hardcore fans. No-one new to the game makes that jump instantly.

 

[Portology]

Bandwagoners turn into hardcore fans. No-one new to the game makes that jump instantly.

We have a winner. See Hawthorn 1971-2011 vs North Melbourne 1971-2011.

My theory is it takes about a generation of sustained high performance to get herds of fans to cross the gap, from casual supporter aka "bandwagoners" to hardcore fan, then you have about a generation of poor performance before "family memory" starts to weaken* and kids drop away. Hawks did so much in a 20 year period from '71-'91 they actually grew a new hardcore (as Port did 1950-1970); North starting from the same lowly place in the comp, didn't quite do enough, fell away so steeply in the 2nd decade that '96 & '99 were basically them preaching to their original pre-1970s base, where '07-'08 had the Hawks reclaiming kids from the 70s who became bandwagoners in the '80s, dropped off in the 90s... until, just in time...

So the Hawks are becoming part of a Vic Big 5, where North are down to (if I read their board correctly) family groups who seem to want inter-marriage only between North-supporting families. Who threaten to disown a child that wants to support some Other Team (seriously, it's there). And the AFL have acted to protect the endangered species at the Etihad wildlife park...

* With a big enough fan base the family effect is less critical as tribal bonds are reinforced by having many school/work mates supporting same team. So in Vic it means the old Big 4 have critical mass. Richmond aren't Melbourne. In WA, obviously WC, then followed by Freo as an "anti-WC" in a big enough market, in SA it's the Cows locking in all "non-Port" fans with that "SA First" rhetoric and siphoning off some casual Port fans that way too. WC & Cows had the "our state first/pseudo state team" card to play, to build a partial hedge against ongoing poor performance. We don't.

So don't shoot our bandwagoners, or lose them. IMO we're now chasing kids whose grandparents were hardcore Port, whose parents dropped off while Crows had exclusive access to the market, who wandered back while we were winning in AFL, and are wandering off again. Pumping fists won't do it, reading Creeds won't do it, and winning on field won't happen consistently enough for us to grow to critical mass until we get to keep enough cash from a stadium deal to assemble the right stuff on & off field.

No one can now repeat the Hawks climb from 1971-2011 or how they did it, system is different, but socializing effects of winning are still the same, so the question is how to get to winning, sustainably often enough, long term. Draft alone won't do it, its a lottery. Best staff alone won't do it, ACs will be hired away by richer clubs. Mad fans won't do it, or Richmond would be king. Long term success today comes from an environment that lets the individuals flourish. To grow a %^&ing pie, Leigh, let a big ****ing crop of wheat grow in the first ^&(*ing place so we can fatten some ^%$^ing cattle. The key factor in protecting the environment is the stadium deal. Fix it, everything else will eventually follow, including the return of a healthy population of bandwagoners for... harvesting. Don't fix it, we're condemned to be North Melbourne, in a game reserve, or Fitzroy, extinct. Feed the soul ! !

 

[morell]

The average person on here hasn't lost their passion for the club, but where on earth are the 20,000 people that attended round 22 2007, but didn't come last week?

Twenty.

Thousand.

People.

More than half the Port supporters that went to that game didn't come last week. I'm not talking about people like us who go week in week out and then all week post on messageboards, i'm talking about your average fan. Our average fans are soft and fairweather.

*raises hand* - and let me tell you since I have jumped off my weekends are now 200% more enjoyable.

There are so many factors that go into this situation for Port that trying to put your finger one just one issue is impossible.

For me, I got to the point that I was sick to death of the gutless, mindless, ineptitude filled displays of mental weakness I was witnessing week in week out for seasons on end. I figured if the players, coaches and staff aren't going to put in the time and energy, than neither was I. The Gold Coast game was the thimble full of water that made the glass overflow. The straw that broke the camels back so to speak.

But before that was a series of circumstances that just made me so angry that AFL was not worth it anymore.

The rule changes - sling tackles WTF! Holding the ball, chopping the arms etc
AAMI stadium - it's a shit hole and miles from where I live
The expense - to take my family there costs me $50+
The lack of representation - this side running out doesn't represent where I am from or what I believe in, there is nothing tying me to the club other than the money I forked out for a ticket. As much as we would like to skin it, spin and twist it, the modern AFL clubs are all franchises.
The draft rules/zoning/FS rules - its all shite.
Morons - lets be honest, the general populace are unbearable when grouped together in a stadium.

Makes for a pretty full glass of shit filled, foul tasting water in the end huh? Why would I waste my precious, valuable, scare free time on it? For the hope of a premiership? When I know 4 years later the cyclical nature of the system will make it impossible to win another one anyway? Whats the ****ing point? Why don't we just hand the cup around each year so everyone can have a turn?

 

[El_Scorcho]

That's fine that you've made your decision Morell, and it sounds like you have. But for every one like you that jumps off for good, there are thousands that aren't going to games now that will be shouting from the rooftops how much they love Port Adelaide next time we are in the top 4.

 

[FishingRick04]

http://www.portadelaidefc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/6038/newsid/119122/default.aspx

 

[tribey]

http://www.portadelaidefc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/6038/newsid/119122/default.aspx

That's fine, but it's a slippery slope.

My Aunt Martha could play kids and lose each week. Seriously, she could. Anyone could. Standing there in my club-supplied PAFC billboard hoodie I could go on about laying a foundation as a starting point to the promised land and looking each one of your teammates in the eye knowing you gave your all or you're letting yourself and your mates down etc. Fire and brimstone.

What's that? We just gave up a 27 point lead to lose to Cecil Exum and the Eastside Spectres by 5 goals? But shit, we're young!

Problem is, so is everyone else.

Apart from obvious examples like GCFC, Melbourne, Richmond and the like, our side that lolfailed against St. Kilda was less than a year younger on average than the reigning premiers.

If merely picking inexperienced kids was the answer to dynasties, Richmond would have 50 flags.

 

[Portia]

That example goes against the rest of your argument though, considering the main reason you would play kids is because the `senior' players (the ones that are bringing our average age up to one below St Kilda) are on the way out and need replacing.

If our side is only one year younger and we're this shit, then it is time to play the kids.

 

[tribey]

That example goes against the rest of your argument though, considering the main reason you would play kids is because the `senior' players (the ones that are bringing our average age up to one below St Kilda) are on the way out and need replacing.

If our side is only one year younger and we're this shit, then it is time to play the kids.

Collingwood's average age versus Carlton was only just on 25. Sure we could and probably should bin the Cornes brothers and we're to lose Brogan in order to bring the average further down, but Collingwood have plenty of good kids of their own.

It's hardly the Hawthorn dynasty of the 1980's where the youngest player had 4 kids and early-onset dementia.

 

[silverfingers]

*raises hand* - and let me tell you since I have jumped off my weekends are now 200% more enjoyable.

There are so many factors that go into this situation for Port that trying to put your finger one just one issue is impossible.

For me, I got to the point that I was sick to death of the gutless, mindless, ineptitude filled displays of mental weakness I was witnessing week in week out for seasons on end. I figured if the players, coaches and staff aren't going to put in the time and energy, than neither was I. The Gold Coast game was the thimble full of water that made the glass overflow. The straw that broke the camels back so to speak.

But before that was a series of circumstances that just made me so angry that AFL was not worth it anymore.

The rule changes - sling tackles WTF! Holding the ball, chopping the arms etc
AAMI stadium - it's a shit hole and miles from where I live
The expense - to take my family there costs me $50+
The lack of representation - this side running out doesn't represent where I am from or what I believe in, there is nothing tying me to the club other than the money I forked out for a ticket. As much as we would like to skin it, spin and twist it, the modern AFL clubs are all franchises.
The draft rules/zoning/FS rules - its all shite.
Morons - lets be honest, the general populace are unbearable when grouped together in a stadium.

Makes for a pretty full glass of shit filled, foul tasting water in the end huh? Why would I waste my precious, valuable, scare free time on it? For the hope of a premiership? When I know 4 years later the cyclical nature of the system will make it impossible to win another one anyway? Whats the ****ing point? Why don't we just hand the cup around each year so everyone can have a turn?

I can respect your decision, based on what you've written and the reasons given.

 

[Waspy79]

*raises hand* - and let me tell you since I have jumped off my weekends are now 200% more enjoyable.

There are so many factors that go into this situation for Port that trying to put your finger one just one issue is impossible.

For me, I got to the point that I was sick to death of the gutless, mindless, ineptitude filled displays of mental weakness I was witnessing week in week out for seasons on end. I figured if the players, coaches and staff aren't going to put in the time and energy, than neither was I. The Gold Coast game was the thimble full of water that made the glass overflow. The straw that broke the camels back so to speak.

But before that was a series of circumstances that just made me so angry that AFL was not worth it anymore.

The rule changes - sling tackles WTF! Holding the ball, chopping the arms etc
AAMI stadium - it's a shit hole and miles from where I live
The expense - to take my family there costs me $50+
The lack of representation - this side running out doesn't represent where I am from or what I believe in, there is nothing tying me to the club other than the money I forked out for a ticket. As much as we would like to skin it, spin and twist it, the modern AFL clubs are all franchises.
The draft rules/zoning/FS rules - its all shite.
Morons - lets be honest, the general populace are unbearable when grouped together in a stadium.

Agree with all of these reasons as being valid explanations for not only you, but countless of others, that have dropped off the bandwagon.

I've never had a major issue with crowd behaviour though - maybe as I am as vocal as the next supporter

But Morell, you may have given up on AFL football, but please don't give up on the club, or think that supporting another club will change anything.

 

[El_Scorcho]

That's fine, but it's a slippery slope.

My Aunt Martha could play kids and lose each week. Seriously, she could. Anyone could. Standing there in my club-supplied PAFC billboard hoodie I could go on about laying a foundation as a starting point to the promised land and looking each one of your teammates in the eye knowing you gave your all or you're letting yourself and your mates down etc. Fire and brimstone.

What's that? We just gave up a 27 point lead to lose to Cecil Exum and the Eastside Spectres by 5 goals? But shit, we're young!

Problem is, so is everyone else.

Apart from obvious examples like GCFC, Melbourne, Richmond and the like, our side that lolfailed against St. Kilda was less than a year younger on average than the reigning premiers.

If merely picking inexperienced kids was the answer to dynasties, Richmond would have 50 flags.

I totally agree in general. This is why list management is so, so vital these days.

To win a flag you need a group of talented players all hitting their peak at about the same time. You need probably 15+ blokes in the 22-28 age bracket all playing really good footy.

We need to ensure that we are drafting the right kind of players to peak at the right time, given that KPPs generally take longer than smalls.

I made a thread on the best way to get to that magical 15+ blokes in the right age range a while ago. We need a list manager who understands exactly what is required and who is capable of getting our list to that point.

 

[PAFC04]

*raises hand* - and let me tell you since I have jumped off my weekends are now 200% more enjoyable.

There are so many factors that go into this situation for Port that trying to put your finger one just one issue is impossible.

For me, I got to the point that I was sick to death of the gutless, mindless, ineptitude filled displays of mental weakness I was witnessing week in week out for seasons on end. I figured if the players, coaches and staff aren't going to put in the time and energy, than neither was I. The Gold Coast game was the thimble full of water that made the glass overflow. The straw that broke the camels back so to speak.

But before that was a series of circumstances that just made me so angry that AFL was not worth it anymore.

The rule changes - sling tackles WTF! Holding the ball, chopping the arms etc
AAMI stadium - it's a shit hole and miles from where I live
The expense - to take my family there costs me $50+
The lack of representation - this side running out doesn't represent where I am from or what I believe in, there is nothing tying me to the club other than the money I forked out for a ticket. As much as we would like to skin it, spin and twist it, the modern AFL clubs are all franchises.
The draft rules/zoning/FS rules - its all shite.
Morons - lets be honest, the general populace are unbearable when grouped together in a stadium.

Makes for a pretty full glass of shit filled, foul tasting water in the end huh? Why would I waste my precious, valuable, scare free time on it? For the hope of a premiership? When I know 4 years later the cyclical nature of the system will make it impossible to win another one anyway? Whats the ****ing point? Why don't we just hand the cup around each year so everyone can have a turn?

You are blaming every thing else at a time where Port needs you the most. You are a classic example of a fair weather supporter and one who is not loyal and also lacking what it takes to stand by your club when the time gets hard.

So once the GWS goes to shit, what club are you going to support next?

I can't beleive that people actually jump ship to other clubs.

IF....our great club Port Adelaide Football Club was to dissappear from the AFL, I would stop watching AFL and watch the SANFL Magpies.

Just shows your commitment value is Zero morell....for any club.

Having said, you have your choice of Product to support but from Port to GWS in mind blowing...good luck.

Good luck in trying not to support Port when you put you GWS scarfe and cap.

Shakes the head........

Why would one stop supporting a club that has history and a tradition to a club that has been manufactured.

 

[Minkya]

I'm sorry but supporters like Morrell have me dumbfounded!
If you were Port Adelaide through and through, you'd support us no matter what happens. Mate I've supported us from day 1, moved to Sydney 16 years ago and as passionate about my club as I always have been. Try to watch most weeks on TV. Can't even fathom to support Swans, GWS etc..and all my Sydney mates know that. Can I ask, what were you doing back in 2004...were you on the bandwagon then? If you were, well why don't you stick around for the tough times as well. Yeah, we've played terrible footy this year but hey, you don't chuck it in mate, your able to vent at decisions being made on and off the field but you just don't walk away. Very un-Port Adelaide like and good riddance to you and your manufactured GWS.

 

[Honeyboy Wilson]

He doesn't go for GWS... he just couldn't figure out how to put Unlisted.

 

[morell]

What Bernie said, I do not support GWS, I think it's got something to do with the fact I am using an iPad which makes it impossible NOT to pick a club in your profile.

I still hope Port win, it's not like one can just turn that bit of their brain off, but I couldn't justify spending time and money on something that wasn't enjoyable. Life is short dudes, gotta pack in as much as you can, AFL football has made way for other priorities which provide me with a greater return. It really is that simple, I would rather spend my time at my local footy club, or with my girlfriend, or with friends and family, or playing video games than supporting the PAFC for the reasons outlined earlier.

I always preach to the people around me who are stressed or depressed - to the best of your ability and knowledge begin filling your life with the things you enjoy and at the same time remove the things that are poisonous.

For me, supporting Port Adelaide and more broadly being the supporter of an AFL franchise is poisonous. If that's not the case for you, then all the best.

 

[Harlott]

All the reasons I read here about people jumping off strike me as excuses to justify a stance. I'd like to know one football club in the afl that hasn't been as crap as us, suffered humiliating losses etc. Not talking just about the last few years either.

Being a Port supporter since the mid 70s I've seen so many highs and not so many lows and I'd have to say this is has been the least enjoyable season I've attended. Yet I still feel compelled to go. I love watching the game live, I love the club, I love that I still feel like somewhere deep inside the players, coaches, board, supporters the Port spirit is smouldering away ready to be ignited yet again. Really feel like Port is in me. Jumping off would be like disowning a child. Maybe I believe in fairies but I really believe that special Alberton magic dust will rub on to the place pretty soon. If any club in Australia can get over all this stuff, we can.

P.S. I don't think 17-20,000 people feel poisoned every time they go to the footy though what they're witnessing at the moment is certainly distasteful.

 

[morell]

Port being shit is 1/10th of the reason why people are not attending games. Yes is it is part of it, but to lump everyone who is no longer attending or supporting into the "you just don't like it cos were losing" bucket is rubbish.

Check my join date on here, 2006 wasn't exactly a barrel of laughs and fairy floss.