Vic How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier? - Part 4

[Chief]

This thread is Continued in Part 5:

Vic - How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier? - Part 5

Continued From Part 4: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/how-would-you-rate-daniel-andrews-performance-as-victorian-premier-part-4.1257360/

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[Crankyhawk]

So when you heard the story of these freakish transmissions you thought 'wow, this is crazy, but totally believable' or would you think, like many of us, 'this makes zero sense' and maybe do some urgent retests?

And then if I made some rulings based on these false positives I would amend the rulings as there is no need to keep the lockdown going.

Sent from my CPH2005 using Tapatalk

I thought crazy but believable as I was aware directly of a case caught in the Woolworths so same (large) shop everyone moving but not talking to each other over a 30 minute exposure.
So was willing to go along.
Now found false positives.
My expectation is they learn and next time not assume the transmission
And this hopefully increases tolerance for cases before repeat lockdown.
Recall this time they did tolerate more cases compared the Valentine’s Day
So I am hopeful that they are learning

 

[FRUMPY]

I thought crazy but believable as I was aware directly of a case caught in the Woolworths so same (large) shop everyone moving but not talking to each other over a 30 minute exposure.
So was willing to go along.
Now found false positives.
My expectation is they learn and next time not assume the transmission
And this hopefully increases tolerance for cases before repeat lockdown.
Recall this time they did tolerate more cases compared the Valentine’s Day
So I am hopeful that they are learning

Yeah we al hope they are learning. The first lockdown, fair enough get your ducks in a row and tracing up to speed - extension of lockdown was due to these 'fleeting transmissions' and the 'beast strain' - which are due to false positives or other methods on contact. You would hope the lockdown is shortened and no limits over the long weekend.

 

[Crankyhawk]

To show how stuffed this is they are busy celebrating the number of tests but why the heck are those people not getting vaccinated.

I'm fast losing it with Sutton, I am sure he is trying his best but if we know the restrictions wont be lifted until there has been a period of time without new cases then just announce a month with the possibility of it being shortened.

If they are aged < 40 it is kind of hard to get vaccinated

 

[CatFan79]

I like Sutton, I think he's a genuinely decent and intelligent guy.

Signing the order to shut down 'I Cook Foods' was neither decent or intelligent. It will probably turn out to be criminal.

He's interested in himself, his career, nothing else.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Hindsight heroes in full effect.

Sutton and co can only go off the data they have at the time of decision.

 

[Magnum27]

Oh piss off you condescending twit.

Find me one reputable epidemiologist that has declared the Kappa strain that Professor Sutton called "the Beast" is any more potent than strains that have gone before. Just one. The WORLD HEATH ORGANISATION lists it as being of interest. Not concern. Interest. Who is Brett Sutton to overrule that determination?

Already half of these alleged "fleeting transmissions" have been shown up to be bullshit and we are at a caseload that would have had us out, about and spending money with local businesses after last year's disaster. One new case for every 10,000 tests. F*** me dead.

And comparing what is happening in India with what may or may not happen here is the domain of the moron (in this case you). For starters, their population density, hygiene and medical standards are that far removed from what we have here that you trying to draw that parallel is laughable.

I'd like to enjoy a long walk tomorrow...but you can jam having to wear a mask when out in acres of space with only my wife for company up your ignorant backside. I'd rather eat my own faeces.

A quality response to a stupid reply, i have been on the end of one of these last year, and probably deserved as i most likely said some stupid things, good to have you back to normal mate

 

[FRUMPY]

Hindsight heroes in full effect.

Sutton and co can only go off the data they have at the time of decision.

They can also go back on their lockdown rules and adjust when they are clearly wrong - but now this morning there are 8 more 'fleeting contact' cases.....

No doubt there will be more covid cases today as well - ill presume 6+, that'll sounds good enough to keep people under wraps.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

They can also go back on their lockdown rules and adjust when they are clearly wrong - but now this morning there are 8 more 'fleeting contact' cases.....

No doubt there will be more covid cases today as well - ill presume 6+, that'll sounds good enough to keep people under wraps.

Do you think they should just throw out medical advice and make political decisions based on economy and social media nuffies?

 

[Brad Goodman]

Yeah we al hope they are learning. The first lockdown, fair enough get your ducks in a row and tracing up to speed - extension of lockdown was due to these 'fleeting transmissions' and the 'beast strain' - which are due to false positives or other methods on contact. You would hope the lockdown is shortened and no limits over the long weekend.

They probably could and maybe should, but I get the feeling they’ll keep it going until there’s some consecutive zero days.

 

[Saint]

They can also go back on their lockdown rules and adjust when they are clearly wrong - but now this morning there are 8 more 'fleeting contact' cases.....

No doubt there will be more covid cases today as well - ill presume 6+, that'll sounds good enough to keep people under wraps.

This sort of thing means everything else you write will be assumed nonsense. Nobody, anywhere, except Gerry Harvey maybe, likes lockdowns. There's no political, financial or social incentive to have lockdowns.

Also, where do you think they get the people to "pretend" to have COVID and lockdown all their family and share their movements just so the Cabal of kiddy fiddlers can extend the lockdowns and inject more tracking beacons?

It's blowing the state Treasury out by Billions. You reckon Pallas is quiet in meetings about the financial impact?

If more cases are deemed false positives, I expect the health experts will change their advice, but I don't think it will happen until after this weekend, depending on the number of cases.

The revision of modelling and case tracking doesn't happen instantaneously. SOmetimes I'm happy they're sharing so much information, but all the hectoring by armchair epidemiologists just reminds me why they don't share much information at any other time. Neil Mitchell is already a climate expert and epidemiologist, I wonder what he'll be an expert in next!

 

[FRUMPY]

Do you think they should just throw out medical advice and make political decisions based on economy and social media nuffies?

No but when they base decisions on cases that turn out to be false then they can make changes to their decisions - but now there are 8 fleeting cases......of course there is. We know this government doesnt admit to mistakes - 'i dont recall'

 

[Ghost Patrol]

No but when they base decisions on cases that turn out to be false then they can make changes to their decisions - but now there are 8 fleeting cases......of course there is. We know this government doesnt admit to mistakes - 'i dont recall'

So, 2/60 cases were false positives?

What if there were also 2 false negatives that were out hording toilet paper and going to multiple bunnings this week?

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Hindsight heroes in full effect.

Sutton and co can only go off the data they have at the time of decision.

Come on mate. I have supported them all along but even I can see they are making shit up now to justify that they have gone to water after last year.

Fleeting transmission? Nah, that's bullshit. If they genuinely thought this virus was behaving differently then why wouldn't you test those handful of cases twice to rule out false positives?

"A beast." They have provided no evidence that the Kappa strain is more potent. Why? Because there is no evidence. Not even the WHO are concerned about this strain and every leading epidemiologist has dismissed it. But not Professor Sutton, who is not an epidemiologist. Using a term like "a beast" is unnecessary fearmongering.

Using common sense, which isn't that common let's piece together some knowns and then try to relate them back to the above:

1) the outbreak had a one week head start on contact tracers (no fault of the Vic government).

2) with a one week headstart, why was there not more transmission? With infected people nightclubbing all over Melbourne and going to work, combined with allegedly a far more potent strain of this virus and alleged fleeting transmission, would you not expect a positive test rate of more than one in 10,000? If this strain was as destructive and easy spreadable as they claim, there would be hundreds, if not thousands of new cases by now.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Come on mate. I have supported them all along but even I can see they are making sh*t up now to justify that they have gone to water after last year.

Fleeting transmission? Nah, that's bullshit. If they genuinely thought this virus was behaving differently then why wouldn't you test those handful of cases twice to rule out false positives?

"A beast." They have provided no evidence that the Kappa strain is more potent. Why? Because there is no evidence. Not even the WHO are concerned about this strain and every leading epidemiologist has dismissed it. But not Professor Sutton, who is not an epidemiologist. Using a term like "a beast" is unnecessary fearmongering.

Using common sense, which isn't that common let's piece together some knowns and then try to relate them back to the above:

1) the outbreak had a one week head start on contact tracers (no fault of the Vic government).

2) with a one week headstart, why was there not more transmission? With infected people nightclubbing all over Melbourne and going to work, combined with allegedly a far more potent strain of this virus and alleged fleeting transmission, would you not expect a positive test rate of more than one in 10,000? If this strain was as destructive and easy spreadable as they claim, there would be hundreds, if not thousands of new cases by now.

They did retest cases, that's why we now know it was false positive. They have been honest about that.

It's easy to see all this with hindsight, but as said, they can only go off what data they had at the time.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

This sort of thing means everything else you write will be assumed nonsense. Nobody, anywhere, except Gerry Harvey maybe, likes lockdowns. There's no political, financial or social incentive to have lockdowns.

Also, where do you think they get the people to "pretend" to have COVID and lockdown all their family and share their movements just so the Cabal of kiddy fiddlers can extend the lockdowns and inject more tracking beacons?

It's blowing the state Treasury out by Billions. You reckon Pallas is quiet in meetings about the financial impact?

If more cases are deemed false positives, I expect the health experts will change their advice, but I don't think it will happen until after this weekend, depending on the number of cases.

The revision of modelling and case tracking doesn't happen instantaneously. SOmetimes I'm happy they're sharing so much information, but all the hectoring by armchair epidemiologists just reminds me why they don't share much information at any other time. Neil Mitchell is already a climate expert and epidemiologist, I wonder what he'll be an expert in next!

Mate, it is not that they want to have lockdowns.

It is the fact that because of what happened last year they no longer make decisions in an objective fashion. They are now jumping at shadows. Whilst this is understandable given Victoria's history with this, you simply cannot run a government if you are not thinking clearly. This is why certain decision makers have to step aside or be stood down. There were plenty of avenues open to them and a statewide lockdown should have been the last. They took that decision as a first response and fabricated the reasons why. Therefore, I can no longer trust their decision making.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

They did retest cases, that's why we now know it was false positive. They have been honest about that.

It's easy to see all this with hindsight, but as said, they can only go off what data they have at the time.

The should have retested those "fleeting cases" first (given this alleged phenomenon has never been seen before) before going public with this scaremongering and putting people out of work.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

The should have retested those "fleeting cases" first (given this alleged phenomenon has never been seen before) before going public with this scaremongering and putting people out of work.

Man, it sucks, I know. But we have low vaccine rates and shit quarantine system.

For perspective, what we see overseas is much worse than this.

 

[Saint]

Mate, it is not that they want to have lockdowns.

It is the fact that because of what happened last year they no longer make decisions in an objective fashion. They are now jumping at shadows. Whilst this is understandable given Victoria's history with this, you simply cannot run a government if you are not thinking clearly. This is why certain decision makers have to step aside or be stood down. There were plenty of avenues open to them and a statewide lockdown should have been the last. They took that decision as a first response and fabricated the reasons why. Therefore, I can no longer trust their decision making.

Well a lot of them are different people (Foley and Merlino) and if anything they're being more conservative.

Just like the first lockdown, I'm waiting to hear what people would have done differently.

Complaining about actions without offering an alternative is pointless whining.

 

[HairyO]

I thought crazy but believable as I was aware directly of a case caught in the Woolworths so same (large) shop everyone moving but not talking to each other over a 30 minute exposure.
So was willing to go along.
Now found false positives.
My expectation is they learn and next time not assume the transmission
And this hopefully increases tolerance for cases before repeat lockdown.
Recall this time they did tolerate more cases compared the Valentine’s Day
So I am hopeful that they are learning

So they didntlearn a thing after the pizza shop claim in SA last year which ended up being a security gusrd in hotel quarantine having 2 jobs and lying...

3 day snap lockdown cost millions.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Man, it sucks, I know. But we have low vaccine rates and sh*t quarantine system.

For perspective, what we see overseas is much worse than this.

I know it's much worse than this overseas but that isn't really the point.

Understand, I am not questioning the government's motives, I am questioning their decision making. We shut down for months last year and were promised that it was because we could "get open and stay open." They clearly do not believe that they have robust enough systems in place because they panic every single time there is a case. We were told that they would be able to manage outbreaks without shutting down yet their immediate, kneejerk response is to shut the joint.

And the most galling thing is not the shutdown, it is the seemingly flimsy reasoning and deliberate misuse of language to justify it.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Well a lot of them are different people (Foley and Merlino) and if anything they're being more conservative.

Just like the first lockdown, I'm waiting to hear what people would have done differently.

Complaining about actions without offering an alternative is pointless whining.

It's not about what people like you or I would have done differently.

It is entirely about the fact that they promised, repeatedly that last years brutal lockdown gave them the opportunity to reset their systems so that this would never happen again. "Get open and stay open" are Dan Andrews exact words. On literally dozens of occasions. Yet here we are, at the first minor outbreak they close shop and are very liberal with the truth as to why.

 

[FIGJAM]

What if there were also 2 false negatives that were out hording toilet paper and going to multiple bunnings this week?

Wearing masks inside a large clearspan warehouse with Covid safe procedures and QR code scanning?

I'm sure everyone would be just fine!

 

[Magnum27]

The should have retested those "fleeting cases" first (given this alleged phenomenon has never been seen before) before going public with this scaremongering and putting people out of work.

Just listening to Jeroen on 3AW and when they announced the lockdown they knew the two fleeting cases that were false positives ( Brighton & Mickleham ) were in fact false , both cases were actually informed Tuesday morning they were negative, a family member of the Brighton case confirmed they were told Tuesday it was a false positive, the lady from Mickleham also knew on Tuesday.

So they knew at the press conference to announce the extension, that these cases were not in fact fleeting contact after all but still ran with the fear mongering that it was the case, and used them as examples. How can you trust anything they say now.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Just listening to Jeroen on 3AW and when they announced the lockdown they knew the two fleeting cases that were false positives ( Brighton & Mickleham ) were in fact false , both cases were actually informed Tuesday morning they were negative, a family member of the Brighton case confirmed they were told Tuesday it was a false positive, the lady from Mickleham also knew on Tuesday.

So they knew at the press conference to announce the extension, that these cases were not in fact fleeting contact after all but still ran with the fear mongering that it was the case, and used them as examples. How can you trust anything they say now.

Surely not?

Jeroen actually confirmed they knew on Tuesday?

 

[adogsfan5]

Surely not?

Jeroen actually confirmed they knew on Tuesday?

I believe the cases knew Tuesday but Jeroen rolling with that they didn’t know until after lockdown extension. (I think). Unless I read that wrong. But he’s also now saying there are 8 more of the same. Convenient.