Hurley and Ryder, Cloke and Dawes, Franklin and Roughead, Walker and Tippett

[Hump 17]

Every now and then you come across a real gem on Bigfooty. This one will be hard to beat for me.

So when Collingwood kick the ball to their KPF's, the team plan is actually for them not to mark the ball? Good god man.

What next? X midfielders are no good at clearances because it is the game plan for the ruckman to tap the ball to them?

Apparently it is. Malthouse would prefer the ball to be spilt and then have the forwards fight for it on the ground and scrounge a goal. This apparently works a lot better than kicking it to a forward and him marking then kicking a goal.

 

[PieNSauce]

6. Cloke. seems a bit softer than the others. Gets intimidated when he has a big aggressive defender. Very poor kick. Would struggle at a lesser club imo.

WTF???? What planet have you been on? Cloke! Soft??? You just destroyed any credibility you may have even aspired to. You do realise that Cloke led the competition in contested marking last year. You do realise that he monsters pretty much every backman that has the courage to go near him don't you! Wow! Cloke... soft?

 

[Bardo State]

You aren't overly bright are you?, Collingwood set up very differently to the traditional fwd set up, we often have 12 different goal kickers, we dont care who kicks them as long as they're kicked, fact is if you keep buddy and roughy to 4 goals between them they'll lose 90% of the time (rough estimate), Collingwood are capable of winning without getting any goals out of the KPFs, that's the difference.

Stop the Hawks KPFs and you win the game (easier said than done i know).

Please explain the Melbourne game then

 

[the distributer]

Please explain the Melbourne game then

Do you know the difference between 90% and 100%?

Game plans have a lot to do with how many goals your KPFs kick.

 

[Cyril the Squirrel]

Please explain the Melbourne game then

10% derrrrr

 

[Hump 17]

You aren't overly bright are you?, Collingwood set up very differently to the traditional fwd set up, we often have 12 different goal kickers, we dont care who kicks them as long as they're kicked, fact is if you keep buddy and roughy to 4 goals between them they'll lose 90% of the time (rough estimate), Collingwood are capable of winning without getting any goals out of the KPFs, that's the difference.

Stop the Hawks KPFs and you win the game (easier said than done i know).

Im sure all teams could win without there key forwards kicking goals. Its continuing to win thats the problem and also beating the better sides thats the issue. That includes Collingwood

 

[Ambrosia]

how could he have hurley ahead of dawes and walker more importantly

I had them on level footing.

 

[Manic Shadow]

I love the circle jerk we have here.

When talking about Collingwood midfielders, people say their delivery is crap and they are not good users of the footy and that they just win heaps of footy and bomb it.

Then when talking about Collingwood forwards, people say they're only good because they get such great delivery!

Do we have any good players?

ahhh...

No

Wish my car could do circle work though

 

[feathers]

Look at the spread of goal kickers they had in 08 though, it was their game plan to hit their KPFs, most teams double teamed buddy too, leaving roughy one out even unopposed at times, he got a lot of cheap goals in 08.

Look at Williams, he kicked 60+ for you guys under a similar game plan not more than 2 years earlier.

you said roughead was the stay at home full forward you muppet.clearly it was franklin if anyone.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Every time I see Ryder and Selwood play and think about our drafting of Thorp and Dowler, I cry...

 

[The 747]

You aren't overly bright are you?, Collingwood set up very differently to the traditional fwd set up, we often have 12 different goal kickers, we dont care who kicks them as long as they're kicked, fact is if you keep buddy and roughy to 4 goals between them they'll lose 90% of the time (rough estimate), Collingwood are capable of winning without getting any goals out of the KPFs, that's the difference.

Stop the Hawks KPFs and you win the game (easier said than done i know).

Collingwood set up with 2 KPF the same as every other side in the league that has 2 AFL KPF's. And good sides are capable of winning without their KPF's goals. And believe it or not other sides can also have a spread of goal kickers.

You are the one who posted the bright comment that Hawthorn had a game plan to kick to their KPF's. If you don't understand how stupid that idea is I think we will give up debating. Give you a hint it is like saying the midfielders plan to get the ball.....

 

[the distributer]

Collingwood set up with 2 KPF the same as every other side in the league that has 2 AFL KPF's. And good sides are capable of winning without their KPF's goals. And believe it or not other sides can also have a spread of goal kickers.

You are the one who posted the bright comment that Hawthorn had a game plan to kick to their KPF's. If you don't understand how stupid that idea is I think we will give up debating. Give you a hint it is like saying the midfielders plan to get the ball.....

for the last 4 or 5 years we've hugged the boundry line entering fwd 50, if i have to explain how that impacts on our KPFs i'm clearly speaking to a muppet!!, add to that our KPFs work their tails defensivly.

 

[Simmonds2Hislop]

Pfft.

It's clearly Ryder and Winderlich, they average 8.0 goals contributed per game.

 

[The 747]

for the last 4 or 5 years we've hugged the boundry line entering fwd 50, if i have to explain how that impacts on our KPFs i'm clearly speaking to a muppet!!, add to that our KPFs work their tails defensivly.

So really what you want is for everybody to say your KPP are better than everyone elses.

Doesn't matter where the ball is coming from, all teams kick to their tall targets most of the time. You were the muppet who tried to make out it was some sort of Hawthorn plan to kick to their KPF and that somehow explained why they were so good.

You keep trying to shift what you originally said because what you originally said was well stupid. Have a sweet day though mate.

 

[sr36]

I think what he is trying to say is that the Pies forwards don't take as many uncontested marks on leads in the forward 50 because our game plan generally results in a crowded forward line, whereas other game plans result in the ball entering an open forward line. Collingwood forwards have a lot more opportunities, because the ball spends much more time in our forward line, but our opponents forwards often have easier opportunities because the ball entering their forward zone is often the result of breaking our press and the result is space in the forward 50. I suspect that a higher percentage of Dawes and Cloke's goals and possessions come from them winning contests than is the case for many other tall forwards.

I'm personally delighted to have Cloke and Dawes because they both have physical presence, play good contested footy and work very hard defensively, which suits our game plan to a tee.

For the overall argument. Franklin and Roughhead>>>> Cloke and Dawes. Tippet and Walker are being proclaimed too early. Hurley is a great prospect and Ryder an excellent back up ruck, who contributes extremely well in the forward line.

If I could pick out of these guys for the 2011 season. I'd take Buddy and Cloke(I can't believe how lowly people rate this guy), - although jesus christ the goals to points ratio would be horrendous on a bad day - with Ryder as my third tall/resting ruck.

 

[Paddywhackers]

The OP is the DVM of Essendon. Gold.

FWIW, i'd take Cloke and Dawes.

 

[Johno18]

You can't assess Walker & Tippett's performance this season as they have played only 1 game together. The Crows have only played 2 games so far after a bye round 2.

 

[Jesus Baulks]

Astounding that Cloke and Blair are the equal best forward combination in the game at the moment.

 

[roosaints]

Might have to do more with how often/perfectly they are being fed the ball rather than their own prowess.

Agreed. Dawes is the new Quentin lynch. Bullying in a dominant side. Couldn't get a kick on Jamison last week and then bullied the kid Watson in the second half.

I like the essendon forward combo with ryders versatility. Roughead is overrated but Franklin carries them to the best combo.

 

[themarkedman72]

Softer and intimidated, Travis? What're you basing that on?

even though he has dealt out a few savage elbows behind the play I have always thought that when it got tough and he was playing on big defenders and against very aggresive teams he went into his box a bit.

Thus softer than the others.

Mind you this is based on his younger years and big guys take a little longer to grow into their size usually.

Just dont think he has the presence of a Hurley, roughead or dawes.

Those three are right up there with a barry hall.

 

[themarkedman72]

WTF???? What planet have you been on? Cloke! Soft??? You just destroyed any credibility you may have even aspired to. You do realise that Cloke led the competition in contested marking last year. You do realise that he monsters pretty much every backman that has the courage to go near him don't you! Wow! Cloke... soft?

err...i think u pies fans r all reading it as "soft". what I said was that he is "softer" than the others. Meaning those in his power forward category.

I split them like this.

ruck/fwds (Height orientated) ryder and Tippet.

athletic/lead up fwds Franklin and walker (although walker is really a young power forward)

pwr fwds: hurley, roughead, dawes, and cloke.

Cloke of all these power forwards is the least intimidating.

this is not a critique of his contested marking...which has little to do with ability to intimidate opposing teams outside of it being a facet of he game that can lift the players around them like goal kicking.

 

[wce4premiership]

Frank and rough hands down.

Cloke and dawes is simply workmanlike. Hurley and ryder have been impressive but they will plateau

 

[South of the Yarra]

A mate of mine who is a leading AFL coach said last week that at the moment Cloke is the most intimidating and powerful forward in the AFL due to his immense strength in contested marking situations.

 

[SirJimi05]

A mate of mine who is a leading AFL coach said last week that at the moment Cloke is the most intimidating and powerful forward in the AFL due to his immense strength in contested marking situations.

Hahaha you're a classic, SOTY.

Pfft.

It's clearly Ryder and Winderlich, they average 8.0 goals contributed per game.

Well it clearly aint Jack and Miller is it.

Frank and rough hands down.

Cloke and dawes is simply workmanlike. Hurley and ryder have been impressive but they will plateau

I assume you're just refering to this season?

 

[South of the Yarra]

It is a shame you are filled with such mistrust and disbelief Jimi05.