Is it time to get rid of Hawkins?

[Beth]

Re: Is It Time to get rid of Hawkins

I wouldn't get rid of him but the problem is you can't teach "mongrel".

 

[Belisarius]

Re: Is It Time to get rid of Hawkins

Like the idea of trying him at CHB - and make Lonergan and Hawkins fight it out for the position.

No doubt Hawkins has not produced the goods yet.

From what I have seen he does not have an aggressive attitude and does not use his body well in contested situations - more of a lead up forward.

Not good enough in the ruck - so he has to find a possie where he can seriously contribute to the side IMO.

He does not seem to have a natural footy brain either - so I am not sure he will ever be what we hoped.

Although I understand (and expect) him staying on the list 2011 - I also would not mind if he was traded - for the right price/swap or pick.

We need a good ruckman desperately to help out Ottens and a good CHB. If we could get either of these for Hawkins I would understand the swap.

Not sure if any of these 2 positional players are out there however.

 

[lolcat]

Re: Is It Time to get rid of Hawkins

I wouldn't get rid of him but the problem is you can't teach "mongrel".

Probably not, but you could do a few things to bump it up a notch or two.

 

[thegerman]

Re: Is It Time to get rid of Hawkins

FFS, some Cat fans have no idea. He kicked 34 goals last year in a lineup that has Johnson, Mooney, Ablett and all the midfielders to boot.

Remember this. He saved our asses in the GF last year with the two goals which changed the game.

Give the kid a break. He's played out of position all year, if he was back in front of goal, perhaps he may have improved more. Guess what though, the coaching staff needed a ruck to which we don't have.

Some people just have no idea.

 

[cynical]

Re: Is It Time to get rid of Hawkins

cant get rid of hawkins, he was going good until his foot problem

we have enough players to trade/retire as it is

mooney and pods are both old

 

[CF]

Re: Is It Time to get rid of Hawkins

Nor do most people on here unfortunately.

agreed

 

[i_need_a_pencil]

Re: Is It Time to get rid of Hawkins

As Wallsy says... play him in the ruck!

Oh shit... we already did that.

But he just needs to have consistent time spent in a key forward role.

 

[sauron256]

Re: Is It Time to get rid of Hawkins

I think he'll come good when they stop this part-time ruck farce and play him forward. Watching last year's GF it's seems apparent that it's where he should be spending his time.

Maybe we could have Pods and Hawkins as big target inside 50 with Mooney continuing to rove further up the ground as he has been doing this year (his delivery to targets inside 50 is pretty good)? A forward line consisting of Pods/Hawk/SJ with Stokes and Varcoe roaming for crumbs could be a defender's nightmare!

 

[Exhale You]

Re: Is It Time to get rid of Hawkins

Gee I love the off-season.

And we're only a week into it.
Imagine what it'll be like after reading three months of this stuff.

 

[_cam]

Re: Is It Time to get rid of Hawkins

embarrassing thread,
it took J.Brown like 6 years before he started to kick more than 35 goals a year. Tomahawk needs to be molded into the way J.Brown has, his a similar build but hawk looks like a timid little pussy when compared with brown. Brown commands respect, hawk has games where he looks like its going to be the break out but the following week never follows it up.
Hawk looks slow, very slow as the game progresses that i think i could jog half assed as quick as his sprint. They really need to work on his aerobic fitness during the off season, aswell as trimming him down a touch.

 

[darren forssman]

Re: Is It Time to get rid of Hawkins

Silly thread. You could probably only name 2-3 young key forwards that show as much as Tom.

some names from his draft:

gumbleton, hansen, thorp, everitt, sellar...

jack reidwoldt for the first time stopped being a tease, but has had the benefit of playing in the one position and it seems only after richo left.

 

[CatTricks]

Re: Is It Time to get rid of Hawkins

Didnt read this thread so not sure if it has already been said.
Hawk was flying earlier in the season pre injury...and even in the 09 finals campaign he was fairly good.

He is a FORWARD not a Ruckman..

Being played out of position for majoity of the year has screwed him...that and the recruiting of Pods.

Hawk should be made to battle for his spot in the senior side with Moons and Pods..

just my 2 cents.

 

[thegerman]

Re: Is It Time to get rid of Hawkins

embarrassing thread,
it took J.Brown like 6 years before he started to kick more than 35 goals a year. Tomahawk needs to be molded into the way J.Brown has, his a similar build but hawk looks like a timid little pussy when compared with brown. Brown commands respect, hawk has games where he looks like its going to be the break out but the following week never follows it up.
Hawk looks slow, very slow as the game progresses that i think i could jog half assed as quick as his sprint. They really need to work on his aerobic fitness during the off season, aswell as trimming him down a touch.

Totally agree bro.

He was a good forward last year, probably one we needed more at the business end this year. I think with the Pies and Saints flooding back, we needed that big player to really crash the pack and split it open for guys like Varcoe and Byrnes to get the loose pill.

Moons and jPod are not either. Both are one-on-one types now, more suited to that style of contested footy.

Hawkins needs to play forward and out of the square. He can at times play up at CHF.

What people have to do is be realistic. It took Mooney a long time before he not only settled, but believed he had the talent. We were having the same arguments back when he was young to where we'd place him as he just wasn't performing. He was switched forward, then back, and even a stint in the middle. Some of those moves paid off, some didn't. Sure he had the mungrel in him, but often misplaced as he was underperforming.

Where we have to go with Hawkins is he has to constantly play in the forward line. Have the faith people, he will kick 40-50 goals if left there next season.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Re: Is It Time to get rid of Hawkins

No its not, but it is time to put him in the VFL FF position and let him re-learn how to kick goals.

Agree...key forwards are rare as hen's teeth, and with the compromised drafts...no way should we get rid of him...however I am sick and tired of seeing him play in the ruck because Bomber will not under any circumstances drop him...if he can't get a game ahead of any of the other talls in the forward line based on form, let him stay in the VFL until his form warrants a promotion. Simple.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Re: Is It Time to get rid of Hawkins

I think he'll come good when they stop this part-time ruck farce and play him forward. Watching last year's GF it's seems apparent that it's where he should be spending his time.

Maybe we could have Pods and Hawkins as big target inside 50 with Mooney continuing to rove further up the ground as he has been doing this year (his delivery to targets inside 50 is pretty good)? A forward line consisting of Pods/Hawk/SJ with Stokes and Varcoe roaming for crumbs could be a defender's nightmare!

Problem is from what I've seen at the back end of this year, unless he was carrying an injury, his body can't do that anymore (if he plays, he's probably going to have to play deep is moons). To be fair to Tom, while I'm frustrated with his year, Moons has been the same. Hence why I'm surprised Moons is going on in 2011 and I'll be interested to see what it means for Tom's place in the team.

 

[Gogeelong]

Re: Is It Time to get rid of Hawkins

For the next couple of years Hawkins and Pods will be our 2 key talls.
Hawkins foot is a concern. If it continues to play up then perhaps I would agree with this thread
Brown will be given games during this period until his body develops and Vardy is the next one coming through

Mooney is the concern.
He is no longer a barometer for our side. He is inaccurate in front of goal and way to inconsistant.

 

[KennyHunter9]

Re: Is It Time to get rid of Hawkins

An external perspective on a very interesting discussion:

1. The Cats need to let him play FF. He's a natural in that role. The difficult thing here is that the J-Pod will need to sacrifice his game - maybe playing more on a the flank - to allow TH to settle into the FF position. If J-Pod can't do that then he is the one that needs to make way. TH can be a member of your next premiership team, but unless some miracle takes place next year, J-Pod will not play in a flag for the Cats.

2. Agreed that he needs more mongrel but some of his defensive pressure is good and he really stood up in last year's GF - a fierce contest in difficult conditions.

IF he were to go, how would Cats fans rate him in terms of a draft pick in the 2010 draft? Speculative I know, but I am interested to hear your thoughts nevertheless.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Re: Is It Time to get rid of Hawkins

If anyone should make way, it's Mooney, not JPOD.

And that's not my bias, it's just true.

 

[mrpusskins]

Re: Is It Time to get rid of Hawkins

some names from his draft:

gumbleton, hansen, thorp, everitt, sellar...

jack reidwoldt for the first time stopped being a tease, but has had the benefit of playing in the one position and it seems only after richo left.

Exactly. The only two that came immediately to mind for me were Riewoldt and Kennedy. Hansen was better this year but has shown very little prior to 2010.

 

[mrpusskins]

Re: Is It Time to get rid of Hawkins

If anyone should make way, it's Mooney, not JPOD.

And that's not my bias, it's just true.

My problem with Pods is that he appears to be a bit of a one trick pony - having said that he is pretty good at that one trick. If he doesn't take the mark he is pretty much out of the contest. I'm not sure whether he was injured towards the end of year but his second efforts were pretty woeful.

I just wonder whether Pods is going to continue to score freely against the bottom eight teams with their younger, less experienced key backs but we will be left in a similar predicament next year to this finals series where Pods struggled to impose himself at all against the better backs. You can blame the mids for lack of supply and that would be reasonable but I think he needed to be a lot more pro-active. He seemed to lack energy.

 

[Tahir Bise]

Re: Is It Time to get rid of Hawkins

Tom Hawkins will develop into a fine player. He just needs more games at full forward. I believe he would benefit by dropping 4kgs to be more agile. He is worth persisting with he has played 61 games for 80 goals and is still young at 22yrs. So no way to the idea of getting rid of Tom so he goes to another club and proves his doubters wrong which I'm sure he will.

 

[SmothOperRaider]

Re: Is It Time to get rid of Hawkins

Now I know that there are lots of Geelong fans that think Hawkins can be something special but lets have a close look at him.
1. He has been in the system for long enough now to consistently show he can play and yet apart from an occasional flash he is mostly dead wood.

2. He takes very few contested marks and very few marks overall.

3. He definately can't ruck.

4. He is slow and getting slower as he gets older.

5. With Moons and Pods probably gone in 1 to 2 years it looks extremely unlikely that Hawkins will be able to step up and take their place so we need to look for a forward that can.

Finally despite all of the above I would love to see this guy blossom but dont believe he ever will.
Maybe in 2011 he will prove me wrong as I am also sure that Geelong will not cut him this year.

You're a dead-set goose.

God I hate some Cats fans sometimes.

 

[doodl]

Re: Is It Time to get rid of Hawkins

A few things are clear about Hawka to me. One is he can tear it up when he is in full flight. Two is that if he gets injured and misses several weeks his fitness base seems to drop just as drastically as Ottens' does, not to mention his confidence.

He should, as someone commented in another thread, be stuck in the fwd square and told "don't bloody move". He has sometimes been pretty unwilling to really crash packs and make a contest so stick him there where the crash n bash will come to him instead. Only way to make him develop the grunt and physical confidence he needs. Once that clicks for him everything else will fall into place. If it takes half a season of being monstered by fullbacks for him to finally get the angry pills then so be it.

Thats my read on it. If he can mentally get back to where he was early this season and have a good preseason he will be damn good value in 2011.

 

[bulletproof]

Re: Is It Time to get rid of Hawkins

He is definitely a full forward but other than position he has been playing a couple of other things have hurt Hawkins:

1:His injuries have always occurred at just the wrong time
2: The difference between the top and bottom in the AFL is meaning there is effectively two tiers of games in the AFL, those with pressure and intensity and quality and those with not. Hawkins often plays well in the Tier 2 games but struggles in the Tier 1 games. He is heavily criticised for his performances in the big games (though he was superb in last year's prelim) but that is a just function of age and confidence. Selwood even struggles sometimes. When has Jack Riewoldt/Gumbleton/Kruezer ever played in a game of high intensity like last week?
3: He has not ever been in a forward line where he is the target
4: The overtop media scrutiny which has hurt his fragile belief

 

[Partridge]

Re: Is It Time to get rid of Hawkins

If anyone should make way, it's Mooney, not JPOD.

And that's not my bias, it's just true.

Absolutely correct. Mooney was next to useless late in the season. Can't jump, doesn't lead much, and absolutely appalling conversion for a key forward.

Personally, I'd tell Mooney he's in the seconds unless Pods and Hawkins are injured. He doesn't offer anything right now that they can't provide.