USA Is the USA the worst nation to exist since classical times?

[Not Important]

And trump's going to fiddle while America burns.

rather destroy. i mean, the supreme court will be filled with ultra-right political people not qualified for the task - that’s the view of the principal legal body on the last three appointments. and that will last for decades. the u.s is stuffed.

 

[brutus76]

the UNITED States of America haven't been "united" since July 4th, 1776

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

the UNITED States of America haven't been "united" since July 4th, 1776

View attachment 2163635

There was a time , IMO, when most of us were satisfied to emulate what we saw in the States.

That time has gone , US seems to be imploding from within and standard of living is spiralling.
Massive issues , many long term , that aren't being addressed - racism, inequality , gun violence , drug problems , broken Health System and uncertainty around status of many citizens. Out of control Capitalism.
Perhaps not the worst Nation but not one we should aspire to copy or become...............

 

[Spearman]

There was a time , IMO, when most of us were satisfied to emulate what we saw in the States.

That time has gone , US seems to be imploding from within and standard of living is spiralling.
Massive issues , many long term , that aren't being addressed - racism, inequality , gun violence , drug problems , broken Health System and uncertainty around status of many citizens. Out of control Capitalism.
Perhaps not the worst Nation but not one we should aspire to copy or become...............

Oh no, no, no. USA all the way!......USA! USA! USA!

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

Oh no, no, no. USA all the way!......USA! USA! USA!

Apologies Spearman - hope I didn't hit a nerve
Go Catters !!!

 

[Spearman]

Apologies Spearman - hope I didn't hit a nerve
Go Catters !!!

No worries I get misty eyed with pride every time I see the thread title.

 

[Seeds]

There was a time , IMO, when most of us were satisfied to emulate what we saw in the States.

That time has gone , US seems to be imploding from within and standard of living is spiralling.
Massive issues , many long term , that aren't being addressed - racism, inequality , gun violence , drug problems , broken Health System and uncertainty around status of many citizens. Out of control Capitalism.
Perhaps not the worst Nation but not one we should aspire to copy or become...............

Agree with most of your points except the first.

Standard of living is not imploding. Income per capita is the highest in the world and it keeps growing and with the us dollar continuosly strengthening the gap between it and us keeps widening. Now yes there are other aspects of standard of living other then the amount of goods and services you can buy (gun violence, Health system, leisure time etc). But real income is a massive compoment of standard of living and in the usa its higher then anywhere else and its only getting better.

Racism is also clearly being addressed. The usa is the wokest country on the planet with its race based policies. I think many of these policies will backfire but you cant claim they arent addressing them even if they are doing it wrong. There are aspects of racism that only the usa are addressing and no where else. When those who spout martin luther king are labelled right wing racists then something is clearly being addressed with race. Australia on the other hand refuses to even acknowledge our racist history and the horrors of the aboriginal act in 1905 which lasted until the 1960s. Most australians dont even know about it and its much more recent the us slavery

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

Agree with most of your points except the first.

Standard of living is not imploding. Income per capita is the highest in the world and it keeps growing and with the us dollar continuosly strengthening the gap between it and us keeps widening. Now yes there are other aspects of standard of living other then the amount of goods and services you can buy (gun violence, Health system, leisure time etc). But real income is a massive compoment of standard of living and in the usa its higher then anywhere else and its only getting better.

Racism is also clearly being addressed. The usa is the wokest country on the planet with its race based policies. I think many of these policies will backfire but you cant claim they arent addressing them even if they are doing it wrong. There are aspects of racism that only the usa are addressing and no where else. When those who spout martin luther king are labelled right wing racists then something is clearly being addressed with race. Australia on the other hand refuses to even acknowledge our racist history and the horrors of the aboriginal act in 1905 which lasted until the 1960s. Most australians dont even know about it and its much more recent the us slavery

Cheers Seeds , appreciate your input.
On the standard of living aspect it was mainly the non income aspects you mentioned I was comparing.
I don't know the stats on income like you do but I suspect the gap between the have's and have nots has widened but it's more of a feeling than fact based.

 

[Spearman]

Cheers Seeds , appreciate your input.
On the standard of living aspect it was mainly the non income aspects you mentioned I was comparing.
I don't know the stats on income like you do but I suspect the gap between the have's and have nots has widened but it's more of a feeling than fact based.

I think I agree with this. I've only been back sporadically for visits, but I noticed a lot more discount/outlet/second-hand shops in recent years. I also noticed a lot more people advertising some service or skill with signs outside their homes. Most likely trying to add income streams. Of course you still see the massive suvs and trucks everywhere, and new residential area with shopping complexes. It is weird to see obvious wealth and thriving economic activity in a suburban area, while at the same time its shopping mall being pretty quiet and lacking tenants. Large grocery store/supermarkets are amazing and plentiful, but smaller businesses struggle.
Pretty much same situation here on Taiwan. Most people go to bigger chain stores rather than the usual mom-pop shops, buy cheaper, crap coffee and takeaway food, while some others seem to collect properties. The economy has been stagnant though for a couple decades.
The old days of a large middle class are gone some older industrialized countries, and probably growing in others with cheap labor.

 

[DickieKnee]

Lou Reed called it in 1989 and its a lot worse now.

give me your hungry your tired your poor and we'll piss on em that's what the statue of bigotry says.

 

[Gough]

New York was such a good album.

 

[Seeds]

Cheers Seeds , appreciate your input.
On the standard of living aspect it was mainly the non income aspects you mentioned I was comparing.
I don't know the stats on income like you do but I suspect the gap between the have's and have nots has widened but it's more of a feeling than fact based.

Yes income inequality has been rising. But so has income. The usa remains the source of most of humamities technological advances. China and Japan/korea plays some role as well but the usa is the majority driver. Europe/canada/australia play little role. This helps drives economic standard of living in the US and does filter down to all classes. Does enough of it filter down to the lower classes? Absolutely not.

The costly health care, guns, drugs, lack of leisure, lack of consumer rights and lack of welfare protection do provide a big negative to standard of living in the US as you state. How you weigh that against economic advances is difficult and largely subjective.

 

[Not Important]

anyone surprised? anyone?

 

[Spearman]

Interesting bit of a conversation I was in on another forum. I was talking with another long time expat about voting overseas and I had mused about whether they count at all, (I'm no longer a resident of any state) especially in the electoral college. This led to this reply, which led to an even glummer one from a different guy. Both are extremely level headed, veterans, one's now a high school science teacher.

No idea where our votes go or if they're even counted...

When I was back in Michigan last year I went to the township clerk's office to make sure I was registered. The woman behind the desk was wearing one of those "patriotic" hoodies and kinda scoffed at me. I wouldn't be surprised if my form went into the trash on her way back to "hand it to the clerk". She did offer me a big, over ripe cucumber before I left though. Wonder what she wanted me to do with it! lol

This part of Michigan is deep, dark red and considered "extremist"... A news article from just last year around the same time (actually just a few weeks after I left).

https://michiganadvance.com/2024/07/...hrough-howell/

My parents live in the bordering town which is much more progressive but still... they have to use the Genoa Township clerk for their admin stuff. When I drive the couple miles over to Howell, I feel like I'm in the deep south.

I've given up on the place. Hoping my parents will finally move up closer to my sister. Not much better, but not as bad as where they are living next to.

The headline of the linked article is....‘We love Hitler. We love Trump.’: White supremacists march through Howell


and 3rd guys response...and very much not a conspiracist type.

I didn't realize your parents lived near Howell Michigan, the former seat of the KKK, and where officers broke Michigan election laws to hold an illegal Trump rally one month after a white supremacist rally.

While my community doesn't have the rich white supremacist history that Howell has, it is also deeply red. For the first time in my life, I'm questioning whether the votes my wife and I cast were actually counted. We received our mail in ballots and filled them out the same day. Then my wife gets a phone call from our city clerk telling her there's a problem with the ballots and there was a mismatch on the numbering of the envelopes and that my wife needs to bring her ballot and envelope to see where the mismatch started. We already sealed our envelopes. But we both bring our ballots down for verification, and my wife had to open her sealed envelope and place it in a new envelope. While this is happening the treasury clerk is watching the city clerk like a hawk, like she doesn't trust the city clerk, giving me a very uneasy feeling. This meeting ends with my wife and I leaving our sealed ballots with the clerk. A week before the election I checked the status of our ballots online. Mine was received. My wife's was not. I called the clerk and she seemed disorganized and confused. She called me back 3 hours later after finding my wife's ballot and marking it received 3 days after mine was received. We gave our ballots to the clerk at the exact same time.

For the first time in my voting life, I'm not sure our votes were counted. This was the first election where I put political signs in my yard, and the first time there was a "problem" with our ballots. Coincidence, or targeted action?

****ing A, this is the shit that goes on at the local level. When people talk about democracy in peril, this is where the battles are. And then they spread up through from the grass roots to the state level party, ie..NC, WI, AZ, GA etc.

 

[DaTBird187]

anyone surprised? anyone?

I used to hold out hope, but seriously, that country gets what it deserves.

 

[Demons09]

It is if you’re a liberal lol.

 

[Spearman]

Back in the early 70s, when I was in jr. high, Nixon and Agnew were the news. I was old enough to get a real low impression of Agnew especially. I didn't know the deep facts, but I felt he was a scumbag. Oddly similar to my impressions of Trump before he started getting into politics by attacking Obama.
Well I've started listening to Maddow's Agnew podcast, Bag Man. I skipped it when it first came around simply because I had a distaste for anything Agnew. It is very good, and like her other pods very much evidence that history repeats itself. Very American in content, but I would recommend it for more context of Trump's attitude toward his many legal problems. Attacking the DoJ, enlisting supporters to intimidate reporters, trying to derail investigations using his VP status, rabid base, etc.
And he was just as despised by the Dems.

Democrats were mystified, Republicans loved it after one comment in which Agnew publicly denigrated black leaders across the country one of the most prominent African-American members of Congress William Clay of Missouri took to the floor of the House to deliver a condemnation of Agnew that was almost not-safe-for-work. He said about the vice president quote, "He is seriously ill. He has all the symptoms of an intellectual misfit. His recent tirade against black leadership is just part of a game played by him called mental masturbation. Apparently Mr. Agnew is an intellectual sadist who experiences intellectual orgasms by attacking humiliating and kicking the oppressed.