Is there a time and a place to go long and direct?

[SJ]

Firstly, I know our run and carry style has served us very well over the past three-and-a-half years. Also I believe the coaches believe that, although an error may hurt going the other way, we will win a lot more lose (in terms of contests) playing in that way.

And that is all well and good.

However have we put the 'long and direct' cue in the rack for ever and a day? And should we ever forget this tried and true strategy?

Last week you could see Hawthorn were making a concerted effort to go long, and to be honest I thought their game plan was superior to ours on the day, and probably out-played us for most of the game. Out of defence they went long all day, particularly Guerra from the kick-ins. This meant that if they did give the ball up it was 60 metres from goal. Also the continued this policy into the forward line, which may have won them the game. Conversely, Geelong tried to handpass out of trouble on all occasions and I estimate about half a dozen of Hawthorn's goals came directly from unnecessary turnovers where someone had the ball where the game was stopped (from a mark or free kick), tried to handpass to 'someone in a Geelong guernsey' and turned it over in the most dangerous place on the ground.

Now I don't doubt that the strategy in general is relatively effective. However on days when things just don't seem to be going right or working (games against St Kilda, Hawthorn, Adelaide) - do we have the ability to go long up the ground?

 

[vinum coupe]

Everyone is just pack hunting us.

I would like to think that all the players would prefer to kick it.

But when we started this game style in 07 it was 3-4 handballs and then kick it.
Now it is taking us a lot longer to get the free possession to have a kick.

It's one thing I like about Ling and Bartel, they are prepared to kick a mongrel punt out of a contested situation. It makes us a little less predictable and puts faith in the players up the ground to win the ball.

Gee it must be difficult being a forward at Geelong right now.
Now do you know when the ball is going to be kicked forward? How do you know when to lead? How do the small forwards know when to run at a tall forward to be front and centre for the spill?

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

Agreed. I was going to post up a thready today similar to this. Cats do not have a plan B and it really sucks when things don't go our way and they flick it into around then into touble... Clearly when we are under pressure is when we are beatable and top teams know to take advantage of it.

 

[noclashjumpers]

One thing I've never quite understood about our game plan, is that we're quite prepared to handball to guys who under incredible pressure because we're told that 'Geelong have faith in players in a contested situation'. Why then doesn't that faith extend to the odd long kick to a contested situation?

 

[cats2rise]

Handballing was our undoing on several occasions last night. At one point Enright had space in front of him, but looked sideways for the handball, and ended up handballing into space in the general direction of a Geelong player while there was two or three crows surrounding him.

 

[James1970]

Everyone is just pack hunting us.

I would like to think that all the players would prefer to kick it.

But when we started this game style in 07 it was 3-4 handballs and then kick it.
Now it is taking us a lot longer to get the free possession to have a kick.

It's one thing I like about Ling and Bartel, they are prepared to kick a mongrel punt out of a contested situation. It makes us a little less predictable and puts faith in the players up the ground to win the ball.

Gee it must be difficult being a forward at Geelong right now.
Now do you know when the ball is going to be kicked forward? How do you know when to lead? How do the small forwards know when to run at a tall forward to be front and centre for the spill?

Call me simplistic, but when you've got great marks in Moons and Pods in the forward line, with Byrnes, Stokes and Varcoe as fast-paced crumbers I just don't get why we don't kick long more often into the forward line.

 

[OldStyle2007]

Call me simplistic, but when you've got great marks in Moons and Pods in the forward line, with Byrnes, Stokes and Varcoe as fast-paced crumbers I just don't get why we don't kick long more often into the forward line.

I won't call you simplistic, but Mooney is not a great mark. Only Pods is

And for the various strengths that our small forwards have, crumbing is not one of them

Stokes crumbed one for a goal last night from Pods but he was in the least likely place for the ball to drop and could count himself lucky to get that one

Have they never heard of front and square???

 

[i_need_a_pencil]

I think its a good point.

Kicking it short out of the defensive 50 then handballing it out is hard if the opposition is putting on a full team zone.

A competent ruck that can take a mark could help this... ie Hawkins, as Blakey is no contested marking option.

 

[Turbocat]

Last week you could see Hawthorn were making a concerted effort to go long, and to be honest I thought their game plan was superior to ours on the day, and probably out-played us for most of the game.

I thought the same. To think the Hawks playing a better style made me sick but I liked how they were willing to kick long from kickouts and around boundary. At the very least it makes the other side stretch their zone.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I agree with most of what you say SJ. To me it brings up a related but just as important point which is I think that we handball so much, that when it doesn't work, we seem to just blindly bomb it (i.e. the St Kilda game). Now obviously part of that not working is opposition numbers back, but we are also not kicking it to the advantage of our forwards, so to me it seems we seem to float between the two extremes. That indicates to me that maybe we are not doing enough training for the presses and zones teams will put on our handball, and hence we tend to not really seem to know what the plan B is. I think it makes it very hard for our forwards because they have to make so many leads and basically mind read to work out when it will eventually come in. For SJ this seems to still work ok because he is such a smart player, but for the rest, it's asking too much of them, both in terms of battling multiple opponents, and being some sort of clairvoyant in reading what is happening upfield, and hence we end up with non advantageous stuff like opposition marks in our defensive 50 or Pods getting it on the wing.

No doubt our forwards need to improve their work, but we need to improve their work to them also.

Certainly we need to be prepared to go long more I think, not in the bombing fashion, but the 50m to the advantage side of a forward in a 1-1 rather than handballing often to guys who are flat footed and in worse positions.

 

[Wish Wellingtons]

No, only works in the wet. It's what we did in the 08 GF and it was shit.

 

[Gogeelong]

Having confidence in your team is great, however it looked like we continued to dish of to players who were outnumbered.

We must mix it up with a more direct style of game as plan B

When StKilda style frontal pressure is applied we have a chink in our armour.

 

[ATSAM]

What a great thread. Yes SJ there is a time and place to go long and direct, often and especially now in 2010 when everyone else has worked out our game and have Coaches who can out coach us.
We have won previously because we carried the ball and ran and ran, the old fast movement. We have never had a forward line plan depending on our midfielders to kick goals. We won because our players knew that someone would be running alongside and what their strengths were.
Not now when exactly what has been described is happening. No Plan B-could have put Mooney in the ruck against St Kilda-, players out of position- see G Abletts frustration, S Johnson when he plays all over the place, Varcoe on the wing-, no mixing up our game so that we do go long and direct every now and then-, and all the things that have made us great start to be exposed.
Of course we 'could leave it to the players' to make the decisions on the day and hopefully not have them yelled at at 3/4 time.
But it is only Round 16, but I am not liking what I am seeing in terms of players being assisted to play, but we did have the two nights of hard training just before the St Kilda game,but not sure that hard training works, but the DR did crash just before and that would have been unsettling , but a great Coach would have talked them up after that,but I am sure that there will be an honest session this week, but are we missing Hinkley BUT???????

 

[kanyewest]

I actually think long and direct is what hurts us sometimes. If you look at St Kilda, they continually play one man back. Kicking long just plays into their hands. The whole handball and run game is by far the superior gameplan, but it is just incredibly hard to pull off. The skill it requires is enormous. But this is what Bomber backs his players to do again and again, and more often than not, it works.

Now, I understand the point that when it does not work, we could go long and direct. But as I mentioned, this style often plays into the opposition's hands. I was at the Pies v. Saints game on the weekend and the Pies also played a man back. You just can't afford to go long in these situations. In the game against St Kilda this year we actually did go long quite often, but got outnumbered constantly. I think the truth is we just need to make sure our skills are high. If we fumble, the whole thing falls apart. This has always been the argument against our game plan in the wet, but the most of the time, we have handled the conditions well.

 

[witsend]

Work-rate...

 

[kanyewest]

Certainly we need to be prepared to go long more I think, not in the bombing fashion, but the 50m to the advantage side of a forward in a 1-1 rather than handballing often to guys who are flat footed and in worse positions.

Agree with this, but not sure how to implement it in practice. It's not like players have time to find a 1-1 in the congestion. The pressure is too high. And the oppositions spare man is constantly looking to wreck any 1-1 anyway. I guess there could be an option for quick kick to a designated area upfield which our forwards know is the "get out kick". But opposition teams would pick up on this pretty quickly and shut it down. Very hard problem this one.

 

[Wish Wellingtons]

I actually think long and direct is what hurts us sometimes. If you look at St Kilda, they continually play one man back. Kicking long just plays into their hands. The whole handball and run game is by far the superior gameplan, but it is just incredibly hard to pull off. The skill it requires is enormous. But this is what Bomber backs his players to do again and again, and more often than not, it works.

Now, I understand the point that when it does not work, we could go long and direct. But as I mentioned, this style often plays into the opposition's hands. I was at the Pies v. Saints game on the weekend and the Pies also played a man back. You just can't afford to go long in these situations. In the game against St Kilda this year we actually did go long quite often, but got outnumbered constantly. I think the truth is we just need to make sure our skills are high. If we fumble, the whole thing falls apart. This has always been the argument against our game plan in the wet, but the most of the time, we have handled the conditions well.

Top post.

Those who want to see the old "Long bomb" to a contest are just desperately trying to cling on the styleof football they championed as kid. In reality it is a rubbish plan and an overrated spectacle.

 

[witsend]

Top post.

Those who want to see the old "Long bomb" to a contest are just desperately trying to cling on the styleof football they championed as kid. In reality it is a rubbish plan and an overrated spectacle.

Agreed...against the Saints you have to switch fast and often to the "fat" side".
They want you to kick long to a contest.
In fairness, whenever I see our opponents kick long into our HB line, I breathe a sigh of relief.
I wouldn't read too much into the Saints game.
Weather conditions were as bad as possible to suit the Saints, they were out to avenge a GF loss, they were scragging, punching and holding beyond belief and the umpires allowed them, and we still only just lost in a game where we failed to score a goal in a half! Unprecedented and will never happen again with this group.

 

[Barabbas]

We actually did it quiet a lot against Hawthorn to get over their zone. Against that kind of gameplan it can work, most of the time it just leads to turnovers.

 

[Pivo]

Those who want to see the old "Long bomb" to a contest are just desperately trying to cling on the styleof football they championed as kid. In reality it is a rubbish plan and an overrated spectacle.

Maybe I am one of those that your speak of however I do still believe there is a place for it...if you choose your targets.

Kicking in long if Pods is 1-on-1 or even 2-1 is a worthwhile gamble because he is a good contested mark.

Jimmy and Cling Wrap are also good grabs above their heads in contests so I'd back them in.

The message is - pick the target.

 

[Belisarius]

Maybe I am one of those that your speak of however I do still believe there is a place for it...if you choose your targets.

Kicking in long if Pods is 1-on-1 or even 2-1 is a worthshile gamble because he is a good contested mark.

Jimmy and Cling Wrap are also good grabs above their heads in contents so I'd back them in.

The message is - pick the target.

With you on this one - it all depends on the set up forward of the ball carrier (the space) and WHO is ahead of the play. Are they a good over head mark - what are they like on the ground - are they one out ?

I would back a few of our guys one out in the forward line - Ablett, Bartel and Pods. Maybe even SJ. So it depends on WHO you are kicking the long ball to and what the SITUATION is (how open or clogged the forward line is).

I think there is a place for the occasional kick long to a contest if the contest is in your favour. Pods must surely get a few more 1 on 1 contests on a dry day when the FB is not playing well - for example.

 

[ninjacat]

Would be happy to see it bombed in if there is support. If the handball chain looks like it is running out of gas due to opposition midfield press, bomb it up and get Stokes/Byrnes/Varcoe front and square. So many times we bomb it in to get it rushed out again.

 

[SJ]

When I wrote 'go long and direct' I wasn't just talking about entries inside forward 50. Actually I was probably thinking more of clearing defence. I definitely think there is a time of going long from a kickout to a contest when handpassing out of the backline in difficult conditions is falling apart. Or kicking long up the wing to a contest when there is nothing else on.

If for nothing else it would at least mean the next time we tried to run and carry, the opposition wouldn't be able to predict it.

 

[kanyewest]

When I wrote 'go long and direct' I wasn't just talking about entries inside forward 50. Actually I was probably thinking more of clearing defence. I definitely think there is a time of going long from a kickout to a contest when handpassing out of the backline in difficult conditions is falling apart. Or kicking long up the wing to a contest when there is nothing else on.

If for nothing else it would at least mean the next time we tried to run and carry, the opposition wouldn't be able to predict it.

I think the problem is if we have to go long and direct out of defence to a wing or whatever, the mistake has already been made. Our whole game is based upon rebounding quickly by taking risks so we don't find ourselves in the situation where we need to go long like this. However, the forward press that's in the game at the moment is killing our quick and fast game, so I think it's fair to ask what's the solution. I'm just not sure whether the answer is to try and be faster with our hands and movement, or accept that that we need to go long on some occasions.

It certainly seems the safer option, but only if it's not done blindly. I guess Collingwood and Hawthorn are good examples of teams that do it well. Still, I'd prefer to think we just need to get better at dealing with the pressure and outworking the forward press.

 

[rocker_oz33]

yep agree with going long every now and then.eg mixing things up the geelong game plan "happy hand ball" game plan does have a use by date and is getting worked out by top sides.