Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack III

[Saint]

The middle east is a chess board,

"The art of war is an immense study, which comprises all others. To concentrate one’s forces – usually by swift marches – so as to confront with superior numbers a segment of the enemy too far from the center to be reinforced in time' Napoleon.

In May this year Iran sent weapons to Iranian-backed militias in Syria then to a cell of the Muslim Brotherhood in Jordan that has links to the military wing of Palestinian group Hamas, the people told Reuters. The cache was seized when members of the cell, Jordanians of Palestinian descent, were arrested in late March

They've all been at each other for centuries.

The Jews in the area lived relatively peacefully until they decided to colonise to take it all for themselves and open up a new war-front to take more.

There wasn't a conflict between Jews and others in the region for about 1,500 years. But the US/UK/Israel started one up.

 

[Number37]

Because it's a white supremacist state. Just like the one they were supposedly escaping. Now they're just replicating white nationalism and fascism.

Polls in Israel show that Netanyahu's party is increasing its share in the polls. Don't let anyone convince you that it's isolated incidents. It's a group of people who call themselves Israelis committing genocide. Don't even need to distinguish between Zionists and Israelis any more. If you support this Israeli state, you're genocidal.

Where are all the defenders of Israel?

The truth comes out and they all disappear.
Israel is, and has always been, a terrorist and genocidal state.
Israelis with morals have been leaving Israel in the thousands for months now.
The majority of the Israelis remaining are willing supporters of genocidal terrorists.

 

[Saint]

Where are all the defenders of Israel?

The truth comes out and they all disappear.
Israel is, and has always been, a terrorist and genocidal state.
Israelis with morals have been leaving Israel in the thousands for months now.
The majority of the Israelis remaining are willing supporters of genocidal terrorists.

They've been given chance after chance to display something other than genocidal intent and the times when anyone has, the reactionaries have killed them and gone on a rampage. Israel has reneged on every deal/treaty they've ever signed.

 

[_Mike_]

The Jews in the area lived relatively peacefully until they decided to colonise to take it all for themselves and open up a new war-front to take more.

• The land of Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire, Jews were a minority and the Arabs lived in majority.
• The first Zionist colony was established in 1878, funded by Rothsschild, which the Jewish National Fund was formed to commence acquiring Palestinian land.
• At the same time, Arab and Palestinian nationalist sentiments were emerging in Palestine in conjunction with growing anti-Zionism. Palestinian-Zionist disputes occurred frequently over land ownership and tenancy
• The British were given control of Palestine from 1920 - 1948 after WW1 as part of the Balfour agreement
• European Jews reignited the Zionist goals of creating a home state in Palestine
• The Brits tried to implement a "white paper" theoretical model for the Palestine land into an independent state without rule by either Jew or Arab
• 1947 the UN voted on a partition plan under 2 separate states , Jews initially accepted the plan, the Arab states rejected it
• The UN divided Israel and the state of Palestine in 1948 through a plan that never went into full effect because Israel declared independence before the plan could be fully in place. While the UN was going to create Israel, Israel declared independence once the British left.
• The UN terminated British rule over Palestine in 1948, the same day Israel declares independence, backed by the UN resolution. As Israel turned on it's previous acceptance of a divided plan the rest is now history

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Iran wont come out & publicly admit they persuaded Hamas to attack on Oct 7, however conveniently Iran was publicly supporting the Houthis and their civil war in Yemen. Back in 2015 & with backing from the UAE, groups in the south of Yemen were warming up to the idea of normalised relations between Yemen & Israel.

Contradicting statements made by Iran in 2019 relate to the support of the Houthi Shia minority, US intelligence believed that Iran "contributed" to the Houthi takeover and the collapse of the Yemeni government. The Shai Houthis are from Yemen's large Shia minority & the Sunni opponents of the militant group have long accused them of close ties to Iran the largest Shia-led state in the region & Saudi rivals. The Shai's goal has been dominance in the region, the Iraq war and removal of Saddam Hussein had far wider regional implications than many realised.

In November 2023 Houthis launched repeated drone and missile attacks against Israeli-linked ships in the Red Sea and the Bab al-Mandab Strait and got involved. Iran mobilising Hezbollah from Lebanon was a predetermined strategy, Hezbollah is far more organised & better supported than Hamas. Back to Israel conflict, where Iran can either destablise or eliminate Israel from the picture Iran are starting to put their cards on the table. This is all too convenient to be merely an Israel - Hamas/Palestine conflict

Nah there's no evidence to say Iran encouraged Oct 7th.

The Houthis got involved when it was clear Israel were cleansing Palestinians in Gaza. They have stated that is their cause, and that they will stop if there is a ceasefire.

• The land of Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire, Jews were a minority and the Arabs lived in majority.
• The first Zionist colony was established in 1878, funded by Rothsschild, which the Jewish National Fund was formed to commence acquiring Palestinian land.
• At the same time, Arab and Palestinian nationalist sentiments were emerging in Palestine in conjunction with growing anti-Zionism. Palestinian-Zionist disputes occurred frequently over land ownership and tenancy
• The British were given control of Palestine from 1920 - 1948 after WW1 as part of the Balfour agreement
• European Jews reignited the Zionist goals of creating a home state in Palestine
• The Brits tried to implement a "white paper" theoretical model for the Palestine land into an independent state without rule by either Jew or Arab
• 1947 the UN voted on a partition plan under 2 separate states , Jews initially accepted the plan, the Arab states rejected it
• The UN divided Israel and the state of Palestine in 1948 through a plan that never went into full effect because Israel declared independence before the plan could be fully in place. While the UN was going to create Israel, Israel declared independence once the British left.
• The UN terminated British rule over Palestine in 1948, the same day Israel declares independence, backed by the UN resolution. As Israel turned on it's previous acceptance of a divided plan the rest is now history

Exactly - Zionists knew they needed to cleanse native Palestinians from their land to create a Jewish majority ethnocracy. That's what they did, massacring Palestinians well before any declaration of independence.

That is wht they continue to do, backed by their powerful allies. You've not refuted the point at all, not sure why you gave us this spiel.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

What is an earth hippy and why are they a qualified objective reasonable source?

We can do better than the X spamming in here. It serves public debate in no meaningful way.

It's certainly better than whatever it is you're providing in here.

Whatever earth hippy is, it has nothing to do with the video of John Oliver explaining how Never Again works.

If you ask Israelis, they would be amused that you thought Never Again ever meant anything other than - Never Again will this happen to Jews.

 

[Saint]

The greatest influence in creating October 7th was Israel's war crimes in the occupied territories and support for Hamas to overthrow the PA in Gaza.

Israel have museums and statues for the terrorists who blew up the Haifa market and King David Hotel. They know better than anyone that terrorism works. It's why they've continued doing it for 100 years.

 

[_Mike_]

That is wht they continue to do, backed by their powerful allies. You've not refuted the point at all, not sure why you gave us this spiel.

My responses to the poster expands the subject to the broader problems in the region.

I am not refuting at all, I am well aware of the IDF's intentions in eradicating the Palestinians from Gaza. I am also well aware of Iran's intentions for eradicating Israel off the map. Israel is focused on Gaza, meanwhile Iran is making it's moves on the chess board around Israel on a larger scale.

These two are not isolated from each other, Iran threatens regional stability by mobilising Shia support in Sunni majority countries in an attempt to destabilize the middle east. Israel wins what, pieces of rubble and bodies littered in the streets while Iran wages a far wider objective on once again asserting Shia dominance and wiping the Jews out all together. Stuck in the middle - the Palestinians being used as pawns in an unwinnable/untenable situation.

 

[_Mike_]

The Houthis got involved when it was clear Israel were cleansing Palestinians in Gaza. They have stated that is their cause, and that they will stop if there is a ceasefire.

I wouldnt believe that too soon, Houthis have been attacking ships in the Red Sea, at first they tried to claim they were just attacking Israeli ships while in reality the majority have nothing to do with Israel. They're attacking anything that floats.
The Houthis are an armed political and religious group which champions Yemen's Shia Muslim minority, the Zaidis.
They declare themselves to be part of the Iranian-led "axis of resistance" against Israel, the US and the wider West

 

[Number37]

Looks like we are at the next stage of the Zionist playbook.
"There is a wider context to Israel carrying out genocide against the Palestinians and that wider context is Houthis, Iran, Hezbollah and probs Ben & Jerrys as well".

FMD.

 

[Saint]

My responses to the poster expands the subject to the broader problems in the region.

I am not refuting at all, I am well aware of the IDF's intentions in eradicating the Palestinians from Gaza. I am also well aware of Iran's intentions for eradicating Israel off the map. Israel is focused on Gaza, meanwhile Iran is making it's moves on the chess board around Israel on a larger scale.

These two are not isolated from each other, Iran threatens regional stability by mobilising Shia support in Sunni majority countries in an attempt to destabilize the middle east. Israel wins what, pieces of rubble and bodies littered in the streets while Iran wages a far wider objective on once again asserting Shia dominance and wiping the Jews out all together. Stuck in the middle - the Palestinians being used as pawns in an unwinnable/untenable situation.

Iran's beef is with Sunnis first and foremost. It's Iran vs Saudi Arabia. Israel are a side-show for Iran. It's only that Israel has been doing the US/Saudi dirty work of bombing Iran and Iraq that they bother with Israel.

It also highlights to Muslims across the region that the Saudis are repeatedly taking anti-islamic positions, which either removes the connection between Saudi/Israel/US or undermines Saudi leadership.

Iran supports those who attack Israel to keep the US/Israel/KSA occupied. They get involved with other areas, like Yemen, to stop the Saudis completely taking over. The Yemen conflict started when the Saudis got involved in oppressing Shia, which saw Iran escalate their involvement.

Most of these conflicts are the Iranians responding to some western provocation, not the other way around.

 

[Saint]

I wouldnt believe that too soon, Houthis have been attacking ships in the Red Sea, at first they tried to claim they were just attacking Israeli ships while in reality the majority have nothing to do with Israel. They're attacking anything that floats.
The Houthis are an armed political and religious group which champions Yemen's Shia Muslim minority, the Zaidis.
They declare themselves to be part of the Iranian-led "axis of resistance" against Israel, the US and the wider West

Saudi and US flagged/aligned ships would also be legitimate targets to the Houthis. They're arming the Houthi's opposition.

 

[Not Important]

precisely. israel set about illegally and often violently occupying land from day one. the aetiology of the conflict is israel wanting control of the region. no matter how.

 

[Not Important]

 

[Not Important]

In other words, for every person killed by direct violence in recent wars, another three to 15 died due to conflict-induced factors, mainly preventable diseases and hunger that resulted from losing access to healthcare, shelter, food, and clean drinking water. The Lancet authors then assumed a rather conservative ratio of 1:4 direct to indirect deaths in Gaza – 37,400 direct deaths plus 149,600 indirect deaths – to arrive at their estimate.

Beyond Bombs and Bullets: The Full Tally of Gaza’s Dead

The impact of losing access to healthcare is starkly illustrated by the example of pregnant women in Gaza, estimated at 50,000 when the war began. Many have miscarried and are having stillbirths, faced C-sections with unsensitized equipment and without anesthetic, while increasing numbers of...

www.counterpunch.org

 

[SuperSub17]

Where are all the defenders of Israel?

The truth comes out and they all disappear.

They’ve all fled to the crime board and spewing their bile over there instead.

 

[Saint]

Isn't it amazing how these criminal countries so quickly turn to others with war criminal histories to fund ongoing war crimes. It's like they seek them out because there'll be no questions asked.

Russia with North Korea and Israel with Serbia (and the US)

Arms sales from Serbia to Israel spike

***

www.haaretz.com

 

[QuietB]

what a pity the terrorist state didn’t forensically seek out and avenge those responsible. they have the intelligence, infrastructure and technology to do it. rather they decided to kill or maim thousands upon thousands of innocents, large numbers of whom were children. and in the process turn gaza into a moonscape.

in a recent article entitled “it’s ideology that drives netanyahu, not just power” gideon levy, who lives in iisrael, wrote it wasn’t hamas or the return of the hostages that was foremost in his mind rather it was completing the occupation by turning gaza into an israel state. the cost was irrelevant. that includes the west bank.

he and his fellow terrorists are monsters. and those who give him aid and comfort have blood on their hands too.

It is amazing that the IDF can find and kill Hamas operatives at will in a school or a hospital or a refugee camp and carry out a "precision strike" to eliminate them, yet they are completely incapable of finding hostages

 

[BobbyMorri]

precisely. israel set about illegally and often violently occupying land from day one. the aetiology of the conflict is israel wanting control of the region. no matter how.

So, that is why Israel kept hold of the Sinai Peninsula.....

It isn't that simple. Israel is a complicated modern democracy and judging its actions on the PM, who 80% of Israelis don't want to run again, is flawed. 300,000 large protests and strike action are not the actions of a united country.

I hope the next time there is a chance of peace, both sides are strong enough to achieve it. That won't happen until there is a change of leadership in Palestine and Israel.

 

[_Mike_]

yet they are completely incapable of finding hostages

From what it appears the hostages have been separated and put in different locations. More of a piecemeal approach from what it seems

 

[_Mike_]

the aetiology of the conflict is israel wanting control of the region. no matter how.

That’s why I don’t think the situation could be resolved. 2 conflicting ideologies and resent driven by religious beliefs.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

That’s why I don’t think the situation could be resolved. 2 conflicting ideologies and resent driven by religious beliefs

Exactly. Its not just Israel and its fundamental ideology wanting control of the region, its both Hamas (and a large segment of the Palestinians) wanting control of the region also.

 

[Saint]

Exactly. Its not just Israel and its fundamental ideology wanting control of the region, its both Hamas (and a large segment of the Palestinians) wanting control of the region also.

The difference is that Palestinians want property "back". It was their parents' and grandparents' houses they were driven from during the first waves of ethnic cleansing and colonisation.

The Israelis unashamedly want land that was never theirs (they're overwhelmingly non-middle-eastern people, so their claim to a 2,000yo Jewish homeland is complete nonsense).

Both have reverted to violence to achieve their aims. But one has become so dominant that they've had repeated chances to renounce violence and ethnic cleansing and refused to.

Just a 2-second think about how Israel said they needed Area C in the West Bank to create a buffer zone between Israel and Palestine but then filled it with settlers shows any nonsense about safety and security is just that, nonsense. It has and will always be about ethnic cleansing.

 

[_Mike_]

The difference is that Palestinians want property "back". It was their parents' and grandparents' houses they were driven from during the first waves of ethnic cleansing and colonisation.

Who wouldn't? Settlers forced their way in, supported & encouraged by their right wing government, and took land that wasn't theirs to begin with.

Prime Minister Rabin was assassinated in 1995 by a right wing nutcase who supported Netanyahu's Lukid party. Rabin was instrumental in supporting the Oslo accord and the Lukid party was never going to support that who perceived the peace process as an attempt to forfeit the stolen territories & surrender to Israel's enemies.

Right wing rabbis associated with the settlers' movement prohibited territorial concessions to the Palestinians and forbade soldiers in the Israel Defense Forces from evacuating Jewish settlers under the accords. Pro Lukid party rabbis even went further to proclaimed din rodef, based on a traditional Jewish law of self-defense, against Rabin personally, arguing that the Oslo Accords would endanger the Jews.

There will be no stability until Netanyahu has been removed from office and the Lukid faction dissolved.

 

[Saint]

Who wouldn't? Settlers forced their way in, supported & encouraged by their right wing government, and took land that wasn't theirs to begin with.

Prime Minister Rabin was assassinated in 1995 by a right wing nutcase who supported Netanyahu's Lukid party. Rabin was instrumental in supporting the Oslo accord and the Lukid party was never going to support that who perceived the peace process as an attempt to forfeit the stolen territories & surrender to Israel's enemies.

Right wing rabbis associated with the settlers' movement prohibited territorial concessions to the Palestinians and forbade soldiers in the Israel Defense Forces from evacuating Jewish settlers under the accords. Pro Lukid party rabbis even went further to proclaimed din rodef, based on a traditional Jewish law of self-defense, against Rabin personally, arguing that the Oslo Accords would endanger the Jews.

There will be no stability until Netanyahu has been removed from office and the Lukid faction dissolved.

Yet their polling has gone up since the start of this intense round of genocide.