Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack III

[Achy Blakey Heart]

The difference is that Palestinians want property "back". It was their parents' and grandparents' houses they were driven from during the first waves of ethnic cleansing and colonisation.

The Israelis unashamedly want land that was never theirs (they're overwhelmingly non-middle-eastern people, so their claim to a 2,000yo Jewish homeland is complete nonsense).

Both have reverted to violence to achieve their aims. But one has become so dominant that they've had repeated chances to renounce violence and ethnic cleansing and refused to.

Just a 2-second think about how Israel said they needed Area C in the West Bank to create a buffer zone between Israel and Palestine but then filled it with settlers shows any nonsense about safety and security is just that, nonsense. It has and will always be about ethnic cleansing.

Where do you suggest the Israelis go? Back to Auschwitz?

Colonisation occured all over the world. It was unfportunate and girzzly. But ultimately, it is what it is. We have to look foward and not back, squibbling about who shat on a square patch of earth first. Should all non-indigenous people leave Australia if indigenous people want it back?

Ultimately this whole thread is futile. The only way for peace to occur is the removal of Hamas and a change in the government of Israel. This will not occur. Thus, its hardly worth even discussing further. There are plenty of other more bloody conflicts occuring in the world that deserve as much or more thought.

 

[_Mike_]

Yet their polling has gone up since the start of this intense round of genocide.

The younger generations of Israel have the task of overthrowing a despot to bring about change. Their future is in their hands.

Rabin was the hope for stability and resolution, when he died, any chance of a resolution died with him. Arafat knew that. Netanyahu has gone as far as claiming that the Muslims were the reason for the Holocaust, and that it was reliance on what Haj Amin al-Husseini told Hitler is the reason for the Holocaust.




Yet...
The chief historian at Israel's memorial to the Holocaust said they were factually incorrect. "You cannot say that it was the mufti who gave Hitler the idea to kill or burn Jews," Professor Dina Porat from the Yad Vashem memorial.

PLO Secretary General Saeb Erekat said in a statement, external: "It is a sad day in history when the leader of the Israeli government hates his neighbour so much that he is willing to absolve the most notorious war criminal in history, Adolf Hitler, of the murder of six million Jews."

This demonstrates the hatred towards Palestinians in Natanyahu, he will never stop until every last Palestinian is expelled from Gaza.

 

[Saint]

The younger generations of Israel have the task of overthrowing a despot to bring about change. Their future is in their hands.

Rabin was the hope for stability and resolution, when he died, any chance of a resolution died with him. Arafat knew that

Netanyahu is not a despot acting without support. Most Israelis support the genocide. More people think not enough bombs have been dropped than they've dropped too many. The protesters are a minority. Netanyahu's genocide is winning him voters.

It's incredibly wrong to suggest Netanyahu is acting without support. The Israeli public are fully on-board with the genocide. It's Rwanda/Germany all over again, by the people who screamed "never again" the loudest. I used to support the existence of Israel, thinking it might ensure "never again". I didn't realise they would do it themselves and completely de-legitimise themselves.

https://www.jns.org/poll-suggests-likud-led-coalition-still-atop-knesset/

 

[_Mike_]

It's incredibly wrong to suggest Netanyahu is acting without support

Who suggested he doesnt? He couldnt be doing what he is without support of the government, IDF and voters who keep him there...

I didn't realise they would do it themselves and completely de-legitimise themselves.

That's drawing a long bow to think that the the public heavily supports the massacres. Holocaust survivors, for example, had publicly condemned Netanyahu's government sanctioned Gaza massacres

 

[Blue1980]

Where do you suggest the Israelis go? Back to Auschwitz?

Colonisation occured all over the world. It was unfportunate and girzzly. But ultimately, it is what it is. We have to look foward and not back, squibbling about who shat on a square patch of earth first. Should all non-indigenous people leave Australia if indigenous people want it back?

Ultimately this whole thread is futile. The only way for peace to occur is the removal of Hamas and a change in the government of Israel. This will not occur. Thus, its hardly worth even discussing further. There are plenty of other more bloody conflicts occuring in the world that deserve as much or more thought.

Unfortunately we are helping fund Israel on this one which is why it’s more front and centre.

I think it’s more go with the 1967 borders or something similar as opposed to getting Israeli’s out of there completely.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

Unfortunately we are helping fund Israel on this one which is why it’s more front and centre.

I think it’s more go with the 1967 borders or something similar as opposed to getting Israeli’s out of there completely.

River to the Sea..... The Palestinians will never be happy with the pre 1967 border. There will just be another terrorist government uprise like Hamas that will seek to take the rest of it back.

 

[Saint]

River to the Sea..... The Palestinians will never be happy with the pre 1967 border. There will just be another terrorist government uprise like Hamas that will seek to take the rest of it back.

Same with Likud. River to the Sea is also their policy.

 

[Saint]

Even the old colonisers themselves know ethnic cleansing when they see it.

Israeli outpost settlers rapidly seizing West Bank land

The number of illegal outposts has risen in the past five years to 196, BBC analysis has found.

www.bbc.com

 

[faible]

Where do you suggest the Israelis go? Back to Auschwitz?

Colonisation occured all over the world. It was unfportunate and girzzly. But ultimately, it is what it is. We have to look foward and not back, squibbling about who shat on a square patch of earth first. Should all non-indigenous people leave Australia if indigenous people want it back?

Ultimately this whole thread is futile. The only way for peace to occur is the removal of Hamas and a change in the government of Israel. This will not occur. Thus, its hardly worth even discussing further. There are plenty of other more bloody conflicts occuring in the world that deserve as much or more thought.

So to summarise your views:

Genocide is unfortunate, but hardly worth discussing.

 

[faible]

Same with Likud. River to the Sea is also their policy.

It seems when Israeli Politicians, who are actually in power, with a massive military machine at their disposal, who are actually committing war crimes and genocide, say these things, it doesn't count.

When a terrorist organisation with limited means to enact anything, in a walled in enclave in a militarily occupied territory, say them, it counts and means they should all be eradicated and every civilian around them slaughtered is simply unfortunate collateral.

 

[Chief]

There are plenty of other more bloody conflicts occuring in the world that deserve as much or more thought.

Start threads.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

So to summarise your views:

Genocide is unfortunate, but hardly worth discussing.

There is genocide occuring elsewhere in the world but never discussed....

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

Same with Likud. River to the Sea is also their policy.

Hence the situation is futile. Two feuding religions hell bent on total displacement and annihilation of the other....

 

[Saint]

Hence the situation is futile. Two feuding religions hell bent on total displacement and annihilation of the other....

Well, it's futile from within. But in Australia we could actually stop supporting one of the sides. The one committing the most genocide. That doesn't mean supporting the other. Just not allowing as much killing to happen.

Let alone charities in Australia raising money for ethnic cleansing (AJA, ZFA) or genocidal troops returning to live in Australia.

 

[faible]

There is genocide occuring elsewhere in the world but never discussed....

Pretty sure they are discussed. I don't recall the Australian Government, Australian posters, or Australian media trying to downplay, minimise or support those other genocides though. Could be wrong there.

 

[Saint]

Some people seem to not grasp the idea that the genocide conventions specifically state that states have to act to prevent it. (Pretending it isn't happening isn't ok)

Turning a blind eye, or saying "oh well, lots of genocides, not much we can do" is a war crime itself, let alone actively sending weapons and parts for weapons.

 

[Blue1980]

River to the Sea..... The Palestinians will never be happy with the pre 1967 border. There will just be another terrorist government uprise like Hamas that will seek to take the rest of it back.

Thats what hardcore Zionists convince themselves. Give Palestine self determination and UN controlled borders, and go from there.

Obviously there is going to be a lot of bad blood for a long time with all that has happened over a long period. The idea Israel seem to have is "oh well they will always be mad at us for trying to ethnic cleanse them, may as well finish the job" doesn't seem the right take.

 

[Blue1980]

There is genocide occuring elsewhere in the world but never discussed....

Which of these genocides are we helping fund?

Has Israel's defence gone from "how dare you call this genocide!" to "others are doing genocide, why can't we?"

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

Thats what hardcore Zionists convince themselves. Give Palestine self determination and UN controlled borders, and go from there.

Obviously there is going to be a lot of bad blood for a long time with all that has happened over a long period. The idea Israel seem to have is "oh well they will always be mad at us for trying to ethnic cleanse them, may as well finish the job" doesn't seem the right take.

Are there any recent examples in the middle east where that has worked?

 

[Blue1980]

Are there any recent examples in the middle east where that has worked?

Has it ever been tried? I mean people act like Palestians are just mad cos they hate Jews.

I can tell you where the current approach didn't work. Blowing the **** out of Iraq killing a million people achieved what exactly?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

There is genocide occuring elsewhere in the world but never discussed....

Go start a thread about it instead of whataboutisming here.

 

[IlovethePies]

Hence the situation is futile. Two feuding religions hell bent on total displacement and annihilation of the other....

The conflict in gaza is not about "two feuding religions". It is about the attempt by the US government to dominate the Middle East, using its proxy, the Israeli government and war machine, as its proxy.

The US is a declining economic power, but it retains the most powerful military. It is now intent on using this military to prevent its rivals from undermining its past economic hegemony.

A barrier to US control of the Middle East is the Palestinian question. The US government has given the Zionist regime permission to "solve it" by carrying out genocide in Gaza.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Where do you suggest the Israelis go? Back to Auschwitz?

They don't have to go anywhere - all they have to do is give up their bizarre obsession with Jewish supremacy. Give up their burning desire to be the worlds only apartheid ethnocracy. Stop creating their own Auschwitz on their borders.

Colonisation occured all over the world. It was unfportunate and girzzly. But ultimately, it is what it is. We have to look foward and not back, squibbling about who shat on a square patch of earth first. Should all non-indigenous people leave Australia if indigenous people want it back?

The one claiming Israelis would have to return to Auschwitz now wants to look forward, not back. Amazing. Aren't your precious Israelis claiming their god gave them this land 2,000 years ago? Isn't that their entire justification for the ethnic cleansing of Palesitnians from their homes for 75 years? Not Palestinians have to let go and look forward, how ****ing convenient.

Ultimately this whole thread is futile.

Which thread on Bigfooty is not futile?

The only way for peace to occur is the removal of Hamas and a change in the government of Israel. This will not occur. Thus, its hardly worth even discussing further. There are plenty of other more bloody conflicts occuring in the world that deserve as much or more thought.

Yes, lets all turn a blind eye to a current and ongoing genocide, because we can't do anything about it anyway.

 

[IlovethePies]

It seems when Israeli Politicians, who are actually in power, with a massive military machine at their disposal, who are actually committing war crimes and genocide, say these things, it doesn't count.

When a terrorist organisation with limited means to enact anything, in a walled in enclave in a militarily occupied territory, say them, it counts and means they should all be eradicated and every civilian around them slaughtered is simply unfortunate collateral.

The term "terrorist" is laden with class prejudice.
The pro-genocide governments (Australia, US, Britain, France, Germany, etc) all declare that Hamas is a terrorist organisation.

Yet they remain silent on the nature of the IDF, which before the world's eyes, captured in a kaleidoscope of images on social media, and testaments from journalists and witnesses, every day is carrying out war crimes of the most horrific nature.

....as well as deliberately pursuing a policy of mass starvation and, through the destruction of medical facilities and blockade of medical supplies, the encouragement of epidemics (ex: polio is the latest).

Yet somehow, Hamas is declared by the talking heads of politics as "terrorist", while the IDF and the Netahayu government are somehow simply acting in "self-defence" ??

 

[QuietB]

The difference is that Palestinians want property "back". It was their parents' and grandparents' houses they were driven from during the first waves of ethnic cleansing and colonisation.

The Israelis unashamedly want land that was never theirs (they're overwhelmingly non-middle-eastern people, so their claim to a 2,000yo Jewish homeland is complete nonsense).

Both have reverted to violence to achieve their aims. But one has become so dominant that they've had repeated chances to renounce violence and ethnic cleansing and refused to.

Just a 2-second think about how Israel said they needed Area C in the West Bank to create a buffer zone between Israel and Palestine but then filled it with settlers shows any nonsense about safety and security is just that, nonsense. It has and will always be about ethnic cleansing.

So many commentators currently saying Israel is failing massively in reaching their objectives of defeating Hamas and freeing the hostages completely ignore that the real objective is colonisation and that Israel does not care one bit about the hostages.

Israel killed a lot of them on October 7 before they even got the chance to be hostages.

“Defeating Hamas” and “free hostages” has as much integrity as “Israel is the most moral army army in the world” - it is pure propaganda.