Drugs Are Bad Mackay?
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- May 24, 2006
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We're on a different page here. I am thinking that this will be Goodwin's last (only) season as captain.
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AFLW 2024 - Round 4 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Its Official: Our Next Captain Is...........
- Thread starter FAITH
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Southerntakeover
Too Sweet
Ahh.
Im not sure it will be. I could see him holding it next year as well.
Time will tell.
The Crows Truth
Club Legend
Have to disagree ........it appears most want to give the captaincy to the best player rather than the best leader.
In my mind Thompson is a very good player .....but I have doubts about his leadership skills .......mainly based on his apparent lack of discipline which equates to lack of leadership.
This argument is currently being discussed about Brock McLean ......good player but terrible leader ....again based on leadership relating to acceptable behaviour.
Do we discuss Shane Warne using the same argument ........best left
Based on on-field and off-field leadership it would appear to be a 2 horse race with Rutten & Van Berlo ........reilly a dark horse
thats a tad simplistic WW. Thompson embodies many qualities that I would wish a captain of my club to have. Hard, tough as nails player that clearly is popular with his team mates (compare the other player celebrations when he kicks a goal compared to Jericho on the weekend). He is an elite midfielder (or very close to) and game breaker. He has also reportedly shown good leadership skills (based on afc or other media articles in recent years). And his perceived weaknesses of discipline has drastically improved in recent years.
And he shows GREAT LEADERSHIP in the way he goes about his play - dont discount this point
And surely people wont keep bringing up this car incident last year. Pathetic. FFS, should we have taken the captaincy of Roo after Ramsgate?
ps wouldnt you like our next captain to be consistently effective and help determine the status of games in a meaningful manner? Otherwise, you could end up with the Vandenberg scenario...
Have to disagree ........it appears most want to give the captaincy to the best player rather than the best leader.
In my mind Thompson is a very good player .....but I have doubts about his leadership skills .......mainly based on his apparent lack of discipline which equates to lack of leadership.
This argument is currently being discussed about Brock McLean ......good player but terrible leader ....again based on leadership relating to acceptable behaviour.
Do we discuss Shane Warne using the same argument ........best left
Based on on-field and off-field leadership it would appear to be a 2 horse race with Rutten & Van Berlo ........reilly a dark horse
just out of interest, what has Thompson done that has been so bad? This whole on field lack of discipline myth is a load of BS. As for off the field, I can't see much there either.
If we apply the same rules to all our leaders as you wish to judge Thompson by Roo would have lost the captaincy after a few years (Pub fight in a public place) and Goody would never have been named captain (betting scandal).
No one big thing, I think its just that under pressure in the past he has had a few major brain fades and given away free kicks/50 m penalties or stuffed up a crucial kick. I'm not too fussed about his car crash issue, my worrie would be his ability to stand up in crucial times and do the right thing. If he can show that he can do this, especially if we make the finals, then I have no worries about him captaining, if he can't, then I'd be more inclined to give it to VB.
Southerntakeover
Too Sweet
Are you really trying to compare van Berlo to vandenberg?
Which bit do you need help to read?No of course you're not.
The Crows Truth
Club Legend
we would hope he is gonna be a lot better than vandenberg but it could be argued he hasnt shown much, if any, more to date. lets face facts - he certainly aint ever gonna be an elite or even very good player at afl level.
if the crows players were playing in a GF tomorrow where would VB sit in terms of importance to the team?
Definitely not top 10 players picked (in no particular order, Goodwin, Mc Leod, Edwards, Burton, Bock, Rutten, Johncock, Thompson, Porplyzia, Griffin)
Probably not even next 5 picked (Reilly, Knights, Shirley, Tippett, Vince, Stevens)
He would be fighting with Douglas, Mc Kay, Doughty etc in the next batch of 16-22
Where do you see him being picked in terms of importance to winning as per the above? Do you rate him a top 10 player at the crows?
Again I am not bagging VB - how could anyone. The guys does everything he can possibly do and is certainly similar to Bickley in many ways - just not as good as yet. I would just like my next captain to be in the top 10 (or at least 15) most important players picked in the team and not one of the least important. Thats a personal view and some teams like the Cats last year showed you dont need a really good player being captain
Gee I don't know about that. There's been a lot less hype about him this year, but he's getting his job done. He really stood up in the West Coast game and considering the team's performance you really got to give him some credit for the way he played that game. He's still developing as a player too.
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And a bloke ended up in hospital with nasty injuries. I agree however that we ahve set the precedent with Goodies incident and that the car incident can't be held against Thommo. Welching on a bet however?
Not sure about the love affair with VB. Like him as a player and he is very solid and does the one percenters but goes missing too often for mine to be a captain. In two years it may well be different.
I still think Rutten should be captain with Thommo as VC when Goody retires.
The Crows Truth
Club Legend
Hi C*G
Appreciate your views. yes he did have one stand out game but overall hsa been disappointing this year IMO. Its his 4th year on the list and first in the leadership group and frankly I was hoping for more from vb.
As per what I asked STO, where would you rate him if you were picking a team for the GF tonight? Top 10, top 15 or in the last batch of 16-22?
cheers
Haha, mate, I'm good, it just read very much like you believe VB was a very good chance of leaving us, I stand corrected however.
No worries. Maybe I didn't convey what I was thinking clearly enough. What I was getting at was that having a homegrown skipper means that we'll never be put in the position West Coast found themselves in. Of course that's not a reason to exclusively appoint local boys as captain, but we just happen to have one who looks like a standout candidate. Time will tell I guess. Maybe Thommo and vB joint captains
For what it's worth I think vB will probably stay with us long term, but the fact is none of us know for sure what's going to happen in the future.
Let's just ignore this
Top Ten Club Champion voting 2007:
1: Andrew McLeod
2: Simon Goodwin
3: Scott Thompson
4: Tyson Edwards
5: Ben Rutten
6: Ben Hudson
7: Nathan van Berlo
8: Scott Stevens
9: Jason Torney
10: Chris Knights
The Crows Truth
Club Legend
i do understand that M23
2 questions for you:
- do you think he has improved this year as hoped (ie would he be top 10 B+F currently in your view)?
- would he be in the top 1o most important players you would pick for a GF? Top 15?
I, for one thinks VB has been pretty bloody average this year. Thommo on the other hand has pulled us out of the sh1t so many times.
VB is a top athlete , a gutsy player, but what has he done that puts him in line for the captaincy?
VB is a top athlete , a gutsy player, but what has he done that puts him in line for the captaincy?
I think its also important that opposition clubs respect our new captain. I am certain that other clubs and supporters will view Thompson as the perfect choice. He is tough, he is always in the thick of it, he can win matches, and he demands respect because of this. Im not sure whether the same can be said for van Berlo at this stage of his career. Thompson is near perfect captaincy material.
Agree, but i think it is more important that he has that respect inside the club. Thommo may have it but vB clearly does as he has made the Leadership Group.
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Van Berlo :
2007 (21 years old) 18.8 disposals; 4.3 Marks; 3.26 tackles; 2.1 clearances per game. (top 7 B&F)
2008 (22 years old) 20.2 disposals; 5.1 Marks; 4.27 tackles; 2.6 clearances per game.
Mark Bickley 22 years old
1991 (22 years old) 17.22 disposals; 2.6 Marks; 1.05 tackles per game; not placed in top 10 B&F
1992 (23 years old) 23.27 disposals; 3.3 marks; 1.7 tackles per game; top 3 B&F
1. VB clearly has not gone backwards
2. he compares nicely to Bickley at similar stages.
2007 (21 years old) 18.8 disposals; 4.3 Marks; 3.26 tackles; 2.1 clearances per game. (top 7 B&F)
2008 (22 years old) 20.2 disposals; 5.1 Marks; 4.27 tackles; 2.6 clearances per game.
Mark Bickley 22 years old
1991 (22 years old) 17.22 disposals; 2.6 Marks; 1.05 tackles per game; not placed in top 10 B&F
1992 (23 years old) 23.27 disposals; 3.3 marks; 1.7 tackles per game; top 3 B&F
1. VB clearly has not gone backwards
2. he compares nicely to Bickley at similar stages.
The Crows Truth
Club Legend
thanks for the stats old son
however i reckon its a bit too simplistic..ie how do total team stats compare now to 15 odd years ago? would we need to gross up bickleys stats by say 10-25% on this basis. Conversely midfielders play a smaller % of total game time (less rested up forward etc) compared to a few years ago and this may also impact.how do you account for bickleys 2 top 3 finishes in 92 + 93? isnt that a more accurate measure of a players worth to his team than just looking at simplistic stats from another era? finally age is one way to look at it (as you have above) but years in the afl system is another and this further reduces vb's performance relative to bickley in 92/93
another question for you crow mos. who would you like to see as next crows captain?
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- #72
though if you insist on thinking B&F is THE measure of importance to the team, you'll note Bickley never made the top 5 in the B&F after 1992/93.
did he regress?
did he regress?
I think quite often the B&F finishes in the top 10 say doesn't give the true picture. For example, how would people rate Reilly in terms of importance to our team?!
I would suspect he is one of the more important players to us but due to number of games he misses with injuries, he doesn't poll well allowing other lesser types to move into top 10 of the B&F.
I think the only time B&F rankings are a true reflexion of where player stands in the club is if all the major players play greater majority of the games for the year.
When teams have bad injury years then other players make the top 10 which isn't a true reflexion of their worth to the club overall.
I would suspect he is one of the more important players to us but due to number of games he misses with injuries, he doesn't poll well allowing other lesser types to move into top 10 of the B&F.
I think the only time B&F rankings are a true reflexion of where player stands in the club is if all the major players play greater majority of the games for the year.
When teams have bad injury years then other players make the top 10 which isn't a true reflexion of their worth to the club overall.
Southerntakeover
Too Sweet
Complete and utter rubbish.
If i were picking a team for the grand final, he would be one of the first picked. I can see what you're trying to do though, the old 'when did you stop beating your wife' question. If i say hes not, you jump on that, if i say he is, suddenly im disrespecting the players i put him before. Top 10 players picked? What a ridiculous concept.
What is your basis for suggesting he wouldnt be? Why ignore the facts.
Fact- Rated our 7th best player last year. You cannot argue that he is not in our top 10, the evidence clearly shows he is.
Fact- At 21 commands such respect amongst the playing group that he was voted into the leadership group, over other players that you rate as 'top 10'. What does this tell us? Not only is van Berlo rated in our best 10 players on performance, hes also rated in our top 6 based on the respect of the players.
Fact- He has had a guaranteed spot in the team, when fit, since he was 19, and is no danger of losing it any time soon, short of a massive drop in form, which is very unlikely.
Southerntakeover
Too Sweet
The B&F gives a pretty accurate summary of Reilly IMO.
When plays, scores pretty well, but has never been able to put together a full season, and that has limited his ability to be a true backbone of our team.
