Jacinta Allan - How long can she keep the wool over the populist eyes

[Gralin]

WOW!! Just wow. What planet are you from? How is the current youth crime "epidemic" a wank? Do you think it is made up, or not really a problem. Clearly it has not impacted on you in any shape or form, because that's how you seem to judge things.

Tell me, do you think it is appropriate for a 16 year old kid to be let out on bail multiple times after committing crime after crime, including deliberately ramming cyclists? Why should Police bother arresting these individuals when everyone knows they will be let out on bail only to reoffend.

I do agree with you that the government suddenly professing to become tough on crime is a joke, because it is simply not in this government's DNA

lol cops have gotten more power and funding under this government than previous ones

they've put more and more money into the system and made laws and bail laws more draconian

more people than ever are in prison in victoria and you think its not in their dna?

this is what i mean about the whole thing being a wank

doesn't matter how "tough" labor get the same people will continue to call them week and call for tougher laws and penalties

its fascism

targeting and criminilising kids instead of dealing with the cause just feeds more kids into the prison system and guarantees more money required in the future to keep processing them as adults and keep putting them into prison

its rather profitable for the companies that run private prisons and all of the companies that rely on the slave labor the system provides

heaven forbid any of that money go into the communities impacted to divert these kids, to deal with the issues that lead to the crime in the first place

nah lets demonise minors and lock em up

STRAYA

**** off

 

[Gralin]

Bail isn't the solution, yet there is NO doubt the youth who are committing crimes are being empowered and emboldened by bail. Crime statistics show offences by children aged 14-17 rose by 30 per cent in 2023 and in most cases the offenders were out on bail when they committed the crime. So, the bail laws are actually creating more crime.

When Vic Pol proposed a Youth Crime summit to the Department of Justice 5 months ago they were told details of the crimes being committed by youth was "too graphic" and "potentially racist", so "no thanks".

John Sylvester's has come up with a 7 point plan to combat youth crime:

1. Currently youth crime briefs are categorised as 'Green' (for non-violent offences); 'Amber' (for multiple / repeat offences); and 'Red' (for violent offences). JS says all repeat / multiple offence briefs should be categorised as Red, i.e., prioritised for processing.
2. Cases are taking too long to appear before Court. Employ a dedicated magistrate to deal with Red briefs.
3. Create a Special Police Prosecuting team to process Red briefs.
4. To encourage more Legal Aid lawyers, offer to have their HECS waived.
5. For youth offenders sentenced to minimum jail give them the option of community work as an alternative, e.g., one day a week removing graffiti.
6. Any business that employs a repeat youth offender will be offered payroll tax concessions and/or the government pays half the salary.
7. For the worst offenders, establish a government run boarding school to educate the troubled youth and keep them away from their adult sponsors (there is little doubt adult criminals are behind many of the youth crimes).

Big ****ing lol

 

[Saint]

There are a huge number of people in custody awaiting trial or sentence. According to the Sentencing Advisory Council, it was 37.4% of prisoners in 2023. Shorten that time by making the justice system quicker and you solve a problem. It's not all the causes but it is a cause. Less time in prison (pre or post sentence) means less time to get indoctrinated in ways of crime.

Making the process quicker (not cutting corners but simply reducing waiting time between steps in the process) is a clear win. But it costs money.

They're usually only in custody if they know they're likely to get a custodial sentence. And the time in remand is taken off the sentencing. So it would really only solve it for the very few people who are in prison a long time who get found innocent, or have a sentence less than the time they spent in there.

It's not really solving any of the problems.

 

[Jane Doe]

youth crime is not fixed by locking up more kids

criminialising children is not the solution

My attitude changed after my home was invaded one night and learning the offenders were on bail for previous crimes. Your attitude might change if this happens to you. I now have 2 extremely traumitised children and a wife. Where is the thought for the victims in this?

 

[Sttew]

Big ****ing lol

I’d expect more from a moderator than this petulant nonsensical response

 

[The Punter]

I’d expect more from a moderator than this petulant nonsensical response

Really?

 

[Gralin]

I’d expect more from a moderator than this petulant nonsensical response

I'd expect better than a journalist has a 7 point plan for fixing this but here we are

 

[kalex6251]

heres an idea for those wanting to throw money at the so-called 'youth crime pandemic'? - redirect funding away from private schools

 

[Gralin]

My attitude changed after my home was invaded one night and learning the offenders were on bail for previous crimes. Your attitude might change if this happens to you. I now have 2 extremely traumitised children and a wife. Where is the thought for the victims in this?

Locking kids up doesn't stop your home getting invaded though

Thinking that kids who end up in the criminal system deserve it and aren't victims is also pretty shit

 

[Sttew]

I'd expect better than a journalist has a 7 point plan for fixing this but here we are

I haven't heard anyone else come up with a plan, have you? Instead of considering what John Sylvester has to say you dismiss it outright. What's your solution? Tell anyone who disagrees with you to **** off? Call anyone whose view is different to yours a Fascist?

 

[Jane Doe]

Locking kids up doesn't stop your home getting invaded though

Thinking that kids who end up in the criminal system deserve it and aren't victims is also pretty shit

If the repercussions were alot more servere of course it would. These youth criminals know they will get bail at a drop of a hat.

No offence you have your head in the sand if you do not think this is on a lot of peoples minds in this state. The government are finally starting to cotton on to this or is it the focus groups telling them this?

 

[Gralin]

I haven't heard anyone else come up with a plan, have you? Instead of considering what John Sylvester has to say you dismiss it outright. What's your solution? Tell anyone who disagrees with you to **** off? Call anyone whose view is different to yours a Fascist?

i read it
i dont agree with it
but even more
i don't agree with the media driving a narrative that we are weak on crime and then proposing changes to the criminal system

they aren't experts for starters

why are they trying to direct public policy

why are they pushing to put more kids in jail

why aren't they reporting on the issues that are leading to these problems and pushing the government there

guy writes about crime does not equal guy should be writing policy about crime

 

[Couch Coach]

Locking kids up doesn't stop your home getting invaded though

Thinking that kids who end up in the criminal system deserve it and aren't victims is also pretty shit

Way to have sympathy for the people that didn't commit a crime.

No sorry that it happened to you, I hope your kids are ok, etc. Just sh!t happens, deal with it and please don't think the ones that committed the crime are not victims!

 

[Gralin]

If the repercussions were alot more servere of course it would. These youth criminals know they will get bail at a drop of a hat.

No offence you have your head in the sand if you do not think this is on a lot of peoples minds in this state. The government are finally starting to cotton on to this or is it the focus groups telling them this?

this has been proven false again and again

repercussions are not thought about when crime is going to be committed

if they think they can get away with it, then they will still do it

and that is based on adults who have fully developed prefrontal cortex

if you think kids who don't have that are going to behave in a more risk adverse fashion than adults then you are misguided

"people think this" great I wonder why, we've had years of the media and libs tell them that youth crime is a massive problem, lots of coverage of crimes

years and years of tough on crime is the answer and given its not and isnt working its amazing that people don't question it

but then fear is a powerful motivator and it doesn't really go in for critical thinking

which is why you push fear buttons in the population and then get them to agree to laws that could be used on them to "keep them safe"

 

[Sttew]

i read it
i dont agree with it
but even more
i don't agree with the media driving a narrative that we are weak on crime and then proposing changes to the criminal system

they aren't experts for starters

why are they trying to direct public policy

why are they pushing to put more kids in jail

why aren't they reporting on the issues that are leading to these problems and pushing the government there

guy writes about crime does not equal guy should be writing policy about crime

I don't get what you don't agree with. Is the court system backlogged? Do we have enough magistrates? Is this why repeat offenders are getting out on bail only to reoffend?

Tell me who knows more about crime in Victoria than John Sylvester? Name names! It's not anyone in the Government. Maybe Police, but the most senior Police will tell you there is no more respected crime journalist than JS.

Why shouldn't he have an opinion and why shouldn't we listen to what he has to say? The government is showing very little appetite for seriously doing anything to improve the situation. It takes a road fatality for the the penny to finally drop.

You've told us to **** off and say you disagree with what a John Sylvester has to say. How about Gralin tell us what their solution is?

 

[Jane Doe]

this has been proven false again and again

repercussions are not thought about when crime is going to be committed

if they think they can get away with it, then they will still do it

and that is based on adults who have fully developed prefrontal cortex

if you think kids who don't have that are going to behave in a more risk adverse fashion than adults then you are misguided

"people think this" great I wonder why, we've had years of the media and libs tell them that youth crime is a massive problem, lots of coverage of crimes

years and years of tough on crime is the answer and given its not and isnt working its amazing that people don't question it

but then fear is a powerful motivator and it doesn't really go in for critical thinking

which is why you push fear buttons in the population and then get them to agree to laws that could be used on them to "keep them safe"

You are totally unbelievable and not a bit of sympathy towards the victims of these crimes.

Are you aware that a lot of victims of these crimes have trouble returning to their homes? Something you have not addressed in any of your rantings.

So when were bail conditions tough in this state in the last 10 years? Please tell me. I am waiting. Youth criminals know how soft the bail conditions are in this state. To argue otherwise is laughable.

I will say it again. Youth crime is a massive issue in this state. Only people that have there heads in the sand would argue otherwise.

 

[Gralin]

I don't get what you don't agree with. Is the court system backlogged? Do we have enough magistrates? Is this why repeat offenders are getting out on bail only to reoffend?

none of this addresses the causes of the issue, only the symptoms

Tell me who knows more about crime in Victoria than John Sylvester? Name names!

not interested this is a useless argument

It's not anyone in the Government. Maybe Police, but the most senior Police will tell you there is no more respected crime journalist than JS.

again cops answer to everything is more cops

i dont give a shit how much you respect this person, that has nothing to do with the fact that a journalist is trying to write policy

Why shouldn't he have an opinion and why shouldn't we listen to what he has to say?

anyone can have an opinion, they're like assholes, you can listen to him, that doesn't mean anyone else has to

The government is showing very little appetite for seriously doing anything to improve the situation.

because the real solution is not something any government wants to deal with
because its things like raising welfare payments
investing into local communities
giving money to people they don't control to work solutions that work for their communities

easily attacked by the opposition and media, and going against pretty much everything every government has said and done for decades and admitting that the reason we are where we are is based on government policy (not on crime, but on pretty much everything else)

It takes a road fatality for the the penny to finally drop.

no it takes a road fatality for there to be a situation the media can use

You've told us to **** off and say you disagree with what a John Sylvester has to say. How about Gralin tell us what their solution is?

money needs to go into programs that get kids out of these sorts of behaviours and situations and that isn't magistrate or cops or bail laws

look up justice reinvestment if you want some ideas

tougher youth bail laws already failed in Queensland btw when they reviewed them a couple of years ago

 

[Gralin]

You are totally unbelievable and not a bit of sympathy towards the victims of these crimes.

Are you aware that a lot of victims of these crimes have trouble returning to their homes? Something you have not addressed in any of your rantings.

So when were bail conditions tough in this state in the last 10 years? Please tell me. I am waiting. Youth criminals know how soft the bail conditions are in this state. To argue otherwise is laughable.

I will say it again. Youth crime is a massive issue in this state. Only people that have there heads in the sand would argue otherwise.

I would have expected more from a moderator.

tough on crime has nothing to do with sympathy for victims or helping victims

its about being seen to be harsher on criminals

it doesn't fix things, it doesn't make people safer, it doesn't help victims of crime, it doesn't help kids not offend or re offend

the purpose of bringing up the impact on victims is to justify the punishment being asked for

its eye for an eye mentality and it doesn't fix anything

courts don't prosecute for the victims either, its not about getting justice, its not about making things better for anyone

its about making things worse for people that did something illegal

yes actions have consequences and the impact can be lifelong for the victim of a crime

that to me does not justify what the courts do, its just creating more trauma and damage, making things worse for everyone

 

[Couch Coach]

tough on crime has nothing to do with sympathy for victims or helping victims

its about being seen to be harsher on criminals

it doesn't fix things, it doesn't make people safer, it doesn't help victims of crime, it doesn't help kids not offend or re offend

the purpose of bringing up the impact on victims is to justify the punishment being asked for

its eye for an eye mentality and it doesn't fix anything

courts don't prosecute for the victims either, its not about getting justice, its not about making things better for anyone

its about making things worse for people that did something illegal

yes actions have consequences and the impact can be lifelong for the victim of a crime

that to me does not justify what the courts do, its just creating more trauma and damage, making things worse for everyone

So we should just ignore the victims?

Do you want people victoms of crime banding together and becoming vigilantes?

 

[Jane Doe]

tough on crime has nothing to do with sympathy for victims or helping victims

its about being seen to be harsher on criminals

it doesn't fix things, it doesn't make people safer, it doesn't help victims of crime, it doesn't help kids not offend or re offend

the purpose of bringing up the impact on victims is to justify the punishment being asked for

its eye for an eye mentality and it doesn't fix anything

courts don't prosecute for the victims either, its not about getting justice, its not about making things better for anyone

its about making things worse for people that did something illegal

yes actions have consequences and the impact can be lifelong for the victim of a crime

that to me does not justify what the courts do, its just creating more trauma and damage, making things worse for everyone

There has to be consequences for peoples actions and at the moment there is none. The only people that are suffering are the victims of these crimes. I am tipping if a member of the legal system was a victims things would change. No one is arguing for "an eye for an eye mentality" all people want are sufficent penalties for people that committ these crimes.

You also played the racism card before which is laughable. You really have no idea what you are talking about. Try walking in the shoes of one of these victims of these crimes.

 

[Gralin]

There has to be consequences for peoples actions and at the moment there is none. The only people that are suffering are the victims of these crimes. I am tipping if a member of the legal system was a victims things would change. No one is arguing for "an eye for an eye mentality" all people want are sufficent penalties for people that committ these crimes.

You also played the racism card before which is laughable. You really have no idea what you are talking about. Try walking in the shoes of one of these victims of these crimes.

this is exactly eye for an eye mentality

you want punishment that you think is sufficient and if you're not seeing that you say nothing is happening at all

there's really no point continuing this discussion

 

[Jane Doe]

this is exactly eye for an eye mentality

you want punishment that you think is sufficient and if you're not seeing that you say nothing is happening at all

there's really no point continuing this discussion

You are digging yourself a bigger hole with every post you make about this.

So tell me you think these people are getting harsh penalties?

You really need to think before you post.

 

[Sttew]

You are digging yourself a bigger hole with every post you make about this.

So tell me you think these people are getting harsh penalties?

You really need to think before you post.

When the 17 year old VCE student who was driving the stolen car that killed the 26 year old Burwood man was asked by Police why he breached bail and went on the run his response was something to the effect he thought the curfew imposed on his was unreasonable...

 

[Gough]

Being the toughest on crime is always one of the great races to the bottom in state politics because it's one of the few ways party's can distinguish themselves from each other.

 

[The Punter]

When the 17 year old VCE student who was driving the stolen car that killed the 26 year old Burwood man was asked by Police why he breached bail and went on the run his response was something to the effect he thought the curfew imposed on his was unreasonable...

His behaviour is merely a symptom of capitalism. <sarcasm font off>