Jacinta Allan - How long can she keep the wool over the populist eyes

[peetoo]

A document leaked. I suppose you are disputing its existence or the fact a Labor MP (probably Ben Carroll) spoke to the HUN about it anonymously?

Where there is there is

You suppose wrong . There’s far too much projecting in bigfooty

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

No one would be surprised Cheltenham to Clayton would be the least used bit. It’s right at the end.

Many current lines which have enormous numbers of passengers just have single track at the ends.

There may be strong arguments, but this article seems to be cherry picking worst case

They have a fair idea on passenger usage.

There's a reason they're going to use 4 car train. It's not going to be ridden end to end.

 

[peetoo]

They have a fair idea on passenger usage.

There's a reason they're going to use 4 car train. It's not going to be ridden end to end.

Agreed

 

[Sttew]

They have a fair idea on passenger usage.

There's a reason they're going to use 4 car train. It's not going to be ridden end to end.

Why would the governments unsighted usage modelling be so different to the modelling by its own Rail Project agency?

 

[Satan]

A teenage boy released on bail last week after allegedly killing a motorist while driving a stolen vehicle has gone missing, police say.

On Tuesday night, Victoria Police said they were searching for a 17-year-old Glen Iris boy involved in the fatal crash in Burwood on July

 

[Gralin]

A teenage boy released on bail last week after allegedly killing a motorist while driving a stolen vehicle has gone missing, police say.

On Tuesday night, Victoria Police said they were searching for a 17-year-old Glen Iris boy involved in the fatal crash in Burwood on July

Ok
Are you a budding journo using this thread to practise?

 

[Sttew]

Last week Minister Harriet Shing brazenly declared Victoria’s bail laws are the toughest in Australia, and Victoria does not have a youth crime problem. Both lies. And she uttered these words not one day after the fatal car crash in Burwood.

Will she apologise now that Jacinta has finally acknowledged we have a serious problem? Of course not.

John Sylvester, undoubtedly the most respected crime reporter in Victoria, declared our bail laws to be “not fit for purpose”.

 

[Rob R]

So apparently the VIC ALPs latest approach to dealing with the debt caused by Dan's incompetence and corruption is all new charges for visitors to the Great Ocean Roadm Any chance they might with their debt by cutting waste and projects that have no positive benefit instead of hurting people.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Rob R]

Last week Minister Harriet Shing brazenly declared Victoria’s bail laws are the toughest in Australia, and Victoria does not have a youth crime problem. Both lies. And she uttered these words not one day after the fatal car crash in Burwood.

Will she apologise now that Jacinta has finally acknowledged we have a serious problem? Of course not.

John Sylvester, undoubtedly the most respected crime reporter in Victoria, declared our bail laws to be “not fit for purpose”.

it shows how bad the Vic libs are, they should be 20% up in the polls on this corrupt, out of touch government

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Sttew]

it shows how bad the Vic libs are, they should be 20% up in the polls on this corrupt, out of touch government

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

There will be a change of leader soon. Pessutto cannot win an election as leader

 

[Saint]

No one would be surprised Cheltenham to Clayton would be the least used bit. It’s right at the end.

Many current lines which have enormous numbers of passengers just have single track at the ends.

There may be strong arguments, but this article seems to be cherry picking worst case

Quite right.

What the paper should have done, if it had any clue, would be to compare the patronage and cost per link against other links which have opened recently. For example, they could compare the $10bn Cheltenham to Clayton section with the $600m Mernda Rail extension.

Also, the best part of that report will be the incredibly high population growth in those areas and assumptions around mode share.

(It would take 3 seconds of calculation to realise that population growth would grind the suburb to a halt for traffic, which is still 70-80% of trips).

If there are 20,000 train passengers, that's an extra 80,000 car trips.....

 

[Gralin]

Last week Minister Harriet Shing brazenly declared Victoria’s bail laws are the toughest in Australia, and Victoria does not have a youth crime problem. Both lies. And she uttered these words not one day after the fatal car crash in Burwood.

Will she apologise now that Jacinta has finally acknowledged we have a serious problem? Of course not.

John Sylvester, undoubtedly the most respected crime reporter in Victoria, declared our bail laws to be “not fit for purpose”.

Our bail laws are draconian and mean we lock up a lot of people that shouldn't be in the system at all so in that sense I agree with him

the whole youth crime epidemic and tough on crime is just a wank anyway

the problems are never fixed by more cops, more laws and more people in jail

 

[Jane Doe]

Our bail laws are draconian and mean we lock up a lot of people that shouldn't be in the system at all so in that sense I agree with him

the whole youth crime epidemic and tough on crime is just a wank anyway

the problems are never fixed by more cops, more laws and more people in jail

A wank? Maybe you should tell the relatives of the poor person that was killed last week that.

 

[Gralin]

A wank? Maybe you should tell the relatives of the poor person that was killed last week that.

the media and politicians fearmongering over youth crime and talking about being tougher on it is a wank


it doesn't fix shit, it doesn't solve shit, it just results in more minors being put into the prison system which doesn't reform people

its also in Victoria largely racist dog whistling

none of it is addressing the reason that there is crime, because that would involve actually acknowledging that the problems are created by government and that they don't want to spend the money on solutions

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

A wank? Maybe you should tell the relatives of the poor person that was killed last week that.

Crisafulli has gone down the path of putting more people in jail if elected and it's already causing friction in the community. It doesn't work. It's a systematic issue with education, welfare etc. Fix these and we will gain traction on fixing the problem.

 

[Sttew]

the whole youth crime epidemic and tough on crime is just a wank anyway

WOW!! Just wow. What planet are you from? How is the current youth crime "epidemic" a wank? Do you think it is made up, or not really a problem. Clearly it has not impacted on you in any shape or form, because that's how you seem to judge things.

Tell me, do you think it is appropriate for a 16 year old kid to be let out on bail multiple times after committing crime after crime, including deliberately ramming cyclists? Why should Police bother arresting these individuals when everyone knows they will be let out on bail only to reoffend.

I do agree with you that the government suddenly professing to become tough on crime is a joke, because it is simply not in this government's DNA

 

[Jane Doe]

the media and politicians fearmongering over youth crime and talking about being tougher on it is a wank


it doesn't fix shit, it doesn't solve shit, it just results in more minors being put into the prison system which doesn't reform people

its also in Victoria largely racist dog whistling

none of it is addressing the reason that there is crime, because that would involve actually acknowledging that the problems are created by government and that they don't want to spend the money on solutions

Youth crime is a massive issue especially in the suburbs. Nothing to do with racism at all. A long bow you are drawing. The bail laws need to be tightened significantly. Your having a mare.

 

[Saint]

The problem is not as straight-forward as tightening bail laws.

Less bail means more kids in remand centres where they learn to be more criminal, not less. A child who has been in remand and comes out is more likely to commit a crime in the 2 weeks after release than if they'd been out on bail for 2 weeks.

Delaying a problem by a matter of weeks isn't going to solve anything.

Youth Crime is a problem, but tighter bail isn't a solution, nor is longer remand sentences, they both lead to more crime. It's making sure they get the support they need at home, including supervision and education their parents and schools obviously aren't currently providing.

This creates a problem because why should the criminal kids and parents get support when the kids next door are in the same situation, but not committing crimes and they don't get any support?

And the answer is along the lines of "more support for everyone", which costs a lot more.

Making sure these crap kids turn up to school also doesn't help because the rest of the class are better off without them. There's very little incentive for anyone to take on the task of supporting these problem children.

Queensland (NQ in particular) have been battling this problem for two decades, a whole generation of children's worth, and still haven't solved much.

 

[Sttew]

Youth Crime is a problem, but tighter bail isn't a solution, nor is longer remand sentences, they both lead to more crime. It's making sure they get the support they need at home, including supervision and education their parents and schools obviously aren't currently providing.

Bail isn't the solution, yet there is NO doubt the youth who are committing crimes are being empowered and emboldened by bail. Crime statistics show offences by children aged 14-17 rose by 30 per cent in 2023 and in most cases the offenders were out on bail when they committed the crime. So, the bail laws are actually creating more crime.

When Vic Pol proposed a Youth Crime summit to the Department of Justice 5 months ago they were told details of the crimes being committed by youth was "too graphic" and "potentially racist", so "no thanks".

John Sylvester's has come up with a 7 point plan to combat youth crime:

1. Currently youth crime briefs are categorised as 'Green' (for non-violent offences); 'Amber' (for multiple / repeat offences); and 'Red' (for violent offences). JS says all repeat / multiple offence briefs should be categorised as Red, i.e., prioritised for processing.
2. Cases are taking too long to appear before Court. Employ a dedicated magistrate to deal with Red briefs.
3. Create a Special Police Prosecuting team to process Red briefs.
4. To encourage more Legal Aid lawyers, offer to have their HECS waived.
5. For youth offenders sentenced to minimum jail give them the option of community work as an alternative, e.g., one day a week removing graffiti.
6. Any business that employs a repeat youth offender will be offered payroll tax concessions and/or the government pays half the salary.
7. For the worst offenders, establish a government run boarding school to educate the troubled youth and keep them away from their adult sponsors (there is little doubt adult criminals are behind many of the youth crimes).

 

[The Punter]

One cannot understate the issues being caused due to there not being enough Magistrates, and the lack of funding for Public Prosecutors.

This could be solved with money. But that money is being spent on things like too many upper-to-mid level public servants and a rail line in an already well serviced area.

 

[Saint]

One cannot understate the issues being caused due to there not being enough Magistrates, and the lack of funding for Public Prosecutors.

This could be solved with money. But that money is being spent on things like too many upper-to-mid level public servants and a rail line in an already well serviced area.

Prosecutors and magistrates and prisons treat the symptoms, not the cause.

Prisons have massively expanded under the ALP in the last 10 years.

 

[The Punter]

Prosecutors and magistrates and prisons treat the symptoms, not the cause.

Prisons have massively expanded under the ALP in the last 10 years.

If part of the cause is imprisonment, having more Magistrates so more cases can be heard so people are in remand for shorter periods of time is treating a cause. More prosecutors means cases get dealt with quicker too.

Also, quite simply, not enough is spoken about what happens inside prisons.

 

[Saint]

If part of the cause is imprisonment, having more Magistrates so more cases can be heard so people are in remand for shorter periods of time is treating a cause. More prosecutors means cases get dealt with quicker too.

Also, quite simply, not enough is spoken about what happens inside prisons.

The implication of more judges and prosecutors solving crimes is that it gets the troublesome ones into prison quicker. But that just defers their offending. It wouldn't solve any problem. Except that the next set of crimes will be committed after getting out of prison rather than the period between the first crime and the imprisonment, called bail.

Same number of crimes, same length of sentence.

The outcome we're trying to reach is less crime, not more and faster punishment. And harsher and faster punishment for youths does not lead to less crime, unless all the research worldwide for decades is wrong.

 

[The Punter]

The implication of more judges and prosecutors solving crimes is that it gets the troublesome ones into prison quicker. But that just defers their offending. It wouldn't solve any problem. Except that the next set of crimes will be committed after getting out of prison rather than the period between the first crime and the imprisonment, called bail.

Same number of crimes, same length of sentence.

The outcome we're trying to reach is less crime, not more and faster punishment. And harsher and faster punishment for youths does not lead to less crime, unless all the research worldwide for decades is wrong.

There are a huge number of people in custody awaiting trial or sentence. According to the Sentencing Advisory Council, it was 37.4% of prisoners in 2023. Shorten that time by making the justice system quicker and you solve a problem. It's not all the causes but it is a cause. Less time in prison (pre or post sentence) means less time to get indoctrinated in ways of crime.

Making the process quicker (not cutting corners but simply reducing waiting time between steps in the process) is a clear win. But it costs money.

 

[Gralin]

running people through the criminal system doesn't reduce crime or re offending

its the same old tired argument of more money for the criminal system to combat crime that continues to rise because the money that should go to addressing the cause of the crime instead goes to "combating" it which is a nice little feedback loop for the system