Draft Watcher Knightmare's 2013 phantom draft

[fanaticcj]

great to see george hampson make your list. not sure he is a DEF though, more FWD if anything. has played back a fair bit and turned games though

Extremely versatile player who I have seen play Full Forward, Pocket, Half Forward Flank, Wing, Inside Mid and Half Back Flank in his short time in the WAFL. Easily Subi's most important player and would make an instant impact at the next level given the opportunity. KM, what are your thoughts on which clubs he is best suited to?? I believe he is ready made to play AFL round 1 2014.

 

[Defacto]

Extremely versatile player who I have seen play Full Forward, Pocket, Half Forward Flank, Wing, Inside Mid and Half Back Flank in his short time in the WAFL. Easily Subi's most important player and would make an instant impact at the next level given the opportunity. KM, what are your thoughts on which clubs he is best suited to?? I believe he is ready made to play AFL round 1 2014.

couldnt agree more mate. great observation

i think the interchange cap will play into his hands. surely rookie list at a minimum this year

 

[the mighty T]

Hey Knighta, love the work you put into the scouting and recruiting.. id love to get my hands on some footage and be able to do something similar at some point!

On Collingwood, i think we should really be looking at a strong bodied inside mid with our first pick to compliment some of the better users of the footy coming through like BenKen and Broomhead. Given how complimentary youve been in your profile, do you really think Freeman will make it to our pick? Also, what are your thoughts on Tsitas filling that role for us?

I guess the other real area of concern is the lack of a second tall forward. Do you think it would be worth picking someone up this year or should we hold out for big Darcy?

Cheers mate!

 

[Knightmare]

Hey Knighta, love the work you put into the scouting and recruiting.. id love to get my hands on some footage and be able to do something similar at some point!

On Collingwood, i think we should really be looking at a strong bodied inside mid with our first pick to compliment some of the better users of the footy coming through like BenKen and Broomhead. Given how complimentary youve been in your profile, do you really think Freeman will make it to our pick? Also, what are your thoughts on Tsitas filling that role for us?

I guess the other real area of concern is the lack of a second tall forward. Do you think it would be worth picking someone up this year or should we hold out for big Darcy?

Cheers mate!

I do think Freeman is available at the Pies selection and while there are others who rate him I'm probably on that extreme high end with how highly I rate his game. He's generally regarded as a 10-20 type prospect and with Collingwood most likely having a selection somewhere closer to pick 10 I'd say more likely than not he's still there. If there he's the perfect fit and my choice in any case with Collingwood lacking some inside power but also that breakaway pace from the inside.

Tsitas has been very productive in the TAC and has elevated his inside game in a big way. Just not a super big body, not explosive and by foot a below average user so while he'll get drafted and deserves to somewhere in the first two rounds with the way he is playing he wouldn't be my selection with the Pies needing either more explosiveness through the midfield or more strength. Crouch, Sheed and Dunstan early would be those other guys I'd look at as those guys who really have the runs on the board and absolutely incredible production to back up their cases with Bontempelli that possible to be added to that shortlist depending on how he performs in the second half of the season.

A Jensen or Cripps in the second round may be that other alternative for inside mids as those taller, bigger bodied types who also use it well but at this stage aren't in that same class.

I'm expecting we make a play for a key forward this year. Enter the Boyd sweepstakes as a starting point and see what happens. But it probably comes down to drafting a guy. Perhaps this is a Cameron McCarthy early as a project or a Mitchell Harvey in the second round who is probably my preference of the two anyway as that other guy who projects as someone who can make the grade and develop into something.
I'm still optimistic about Paine and view him as AFL ready now but with Cloke in his mid 20s he'll be 30 by the time the guy we draft likely develops (usually allow 4 years for KPPs to develop).

If Moore works out treat that as a bonus but as we saw with James Stewart there are no guarantees and Moore hasn't yet produced in the TAC. I partly put the blame on him playing in the back half (same as at school level which is wrong) rather than up forward where he is best suited but until he dominates as Joe Daniher did last year he can't be regarded as a sure thing.

 

[Rancid Trogs]

Hey KM,

just curious as to your thoughts on the Essendon list. What would you be willing to trade out and for what in return? And which players do you think the bombers should be looking at with their first 2 - 3 picks?

Cheers

 

[Knightmare]

Hey KM,

just curious as to your thoughts on the Essendon list. What would you be willing to trade out and for what in return? And which players do you think the bombers should be looking at with their first 2 - 3 picks?

Cheers

I really like the position Essendon are in at the moment. A great core group of young talls and some other good pieces around them.

I wouldn't be shocked to see a premiership happen somewhere over the next few years. Well coached with Mark Thompson I mean James Hird coaching.
I just can't help but enjoy Mark Thompson's gamestyle he's introduced it to Essendon who are now executing with that incredible ball movement through the corridor. It's a winner.

I'd like to see another 1-2 high end midfielders added and further small + medium help forward and back can be added but the list is in a good place. With the gamestyle played I'd also look to inject some more pace + skill to make that drive even more damaging.

Bellchambers I view as that most tradeable commodity and given his improvement. I'd probably lean towards retaining him as I feel his ceiling is high but he's a guy where if not confident his body can hold up perhaps then he could be moved on for a first round selection pretty easily.

My place for searching in Essendon's position would be at the young depth on opposition lists. Guys like Sam Kerridge, Patrick Karnezis, Viv Michie. George Horlin-Smith if he could be had is a guy I'd pay a premium to get.
Outside of midfielders Jack Fitzpatrick as an athletic potential no.2 ruckman/key forward if Bellchambers is moved on is the type who could come in as be a replacement given Melbourne's forward and ruck depth.
It's about looking for those guys who are surplus players with many of their type on that teams list and probably haven't received the regular opportunity their production suggests they possibly should.
In any case put those picks on the table and see if you can snag a couple of these if priced appropriately.

 

[TheLastEmperor]

KM, I agree with you assessment of EFC's list, I suspect they are the envy of all other teams around them. Their window appears wide open for the next 3-5 years. Perhaps BJ's mate Dal Santo could be that added bit of class they require. Given St Kilda's list position I'd be content to move him on for a pick in the middle of the second round, which I see fair.

 

[Rancid Trogs]

KM, I agree with you assessment of EFC's list, I suspect they are the envy of all other teams around them. Their window appears wide open for the next 3-5 years. Perhaps BJ's mate Dal Santo could be that added bit of class they require. Given St Kilda's list position I'd be content to move him on for a pick in the middle of the second round, which I see fair.

That's our 'Dayle Garlett' pick!

 

[TheLastEmperor]

That's our 'Dayle Garlett' pick!

I see Essendon's list in a similar position to Collingwood in 08-09, slightly off the pace from the top few teams (Haw, Gee & Syd). I note that Collingwood were aggressive at trade time picking up Ball and Jolly. I reckon you guys should go down that same track and look at a couple of FA's like Dal Santo (due to contract status negotiated FA, I believe) or Cooney. Not sure if Garlett has that 'same' immediate impact, although playing senior footy and a year older now I may be wrong. A question for KM.

 

[Knightmare]

KM, I agree with you assessment of EFC's list, I suspect they are the envy of all other teams around them. Their window appears wide open for the next 3-5 years. Perhaps BJ's mate Dal Santo could be that added bit of class they require. Given St Kilda's list position I'd be content to move him on for a pick in the middle of the second round, which I see fair.

It's just a question of salary cap space when it comes to adding a Dal Santo level talent for Essendon as they just added Goddard.

If Dal Santo is on a mild/is willing to take a mild salary perhaps that may be an option.

Putting myself in Essendon's shoes if Dal Santo expressed interest and St Kilda put him on the table I'd absolutely go for it. He'd be an excellent fit in their situation fitting their gamestyle and among the other pieces Essendon already have in place.

You won't get a first round pick as he likely only has another couple of years left but it could be a young player/player + pick, player + pick upgrade.
Gumbleton/Pears/Hooker/Melksham/Howlett/Kavanagh may be among the types who could be put on the table as options for Dal Santo depending on where Essendon evaluate their games and their futures.

 

[Rancid Trogs]

Hey KM,

Interested on your thoughts on young Kavanagh - playing style, development and potential player he'll become.

Also, what do you think of D.Garlett next season - does he have instant impact or does he take time to develop? And if he does have impact, in what way?

 

[Knightmare]

Hey KM,

Interested on your thoughts on young Kavanagh - playing style, development and potential player he'll become.

Also, what do you think of D.Garlett next season - does he have instant impact or does he take time to develop? And if he does have impact, in what way?

I'm pretty surprised Kavanagh hasn't done more than he has to be honest. Not finding as much of it as expected and isn't by foot using it all that well either again given what was expected of him. Tackling game very good though. Still time for him to establish himself as a senior player but he'll want to have a breakout season next year or his list position may come under question.
I can't help but get the sense he would go better on a different club list as with Essendon's gameplan your kicking and ball use needs to have very good.
Not knowing who will coach Melbourne next year I can't really say for certain whether he'd be a fit but given their midfield needs he's the type who could be included in a trade for a guy like Jack Fitzpatrick perhaps.

Garlett could be playing in the 1s this season. Very AFL ready and will do damage rotating between midfield and the front half as required. He won't cope with a tag but give him freedom to operate and he'll find and win the footy but also hit the scoreboard and potentially take over some games for you. The only issues with Garlett are off the field so if a club determines that he's got his act together that's when he gets his opportunity. I'm just not yet convinced he has that right so I'd be surprised to see a club use an early selection on him and I wouldn't discount the possibility that he gets completely overlooked again as good a talent as he is if my suspicions are indeed correct as dominant as his play is already.

 

[TheLastEmperor]

Wasn't Garlett Rookie listed by Essendon or at least trained with them and then let go due to off-field indiscretions? I doubt Essendon would give him another chance.

 

[HereIam86]

Wasn't Garlett Rookie listed by Essendon or at least trained with them and then let go due to off-field indiscretions? I doubt Essendon would give him another chance.

He was training with them in the lead up to the Ps rookie draft they were thinking about drafting him than decide not to.

 

[Rancid Trogs]

I'm pretty surprised Kavanagh hasn't done more than he has to be honest. Not finding as much of it as expected and isn't by foot using it all that well either again given what was expected of him. Tackling game very good though. Still time for him to establish himself as a senior player but he'll want to have a breakout season next year or his list position may come under question.
I can't help but get the sense he would go better on a different club list as with Essendon's gameplan your kicking and ball use needs to have very good.
Not knowing who will coach Melbourne next year I can't really say for certain whether he'd be a fit but given their midfield needs he's the type who could be included in a trade for a guy like Jack Fitzpatrick perhaps.

Garlett could be playing in the 1s this season. Very AFL ready and will do damage rotating between midfield and the front half as required. He won't cope with a tag but give him freedom to operate and he'll find and win the footy but also hit the scoreboard and potentially take over some games for you. The only issues with Garlett are off the field so if a club determines that he's got his act together that's when he gets his opportunity. I'm just not yet convinced he has that right so I'd be surprised to see a club use an early selection on him and I wouldn't discount the possibility that he gets completely overlooked again as good a talent as he is if my suspicions are indeed correct as dominant as his play is already.

I agree with you re. Kav. Came to the club with good raps despite injury history. Looks good as a large contested ball midfielder but yet to put on the muscle size to match his height. Kicking definitely an issue at this stage, although has been reasonable in the games he's played in the seniors. Was reputed to be reasonably fast when drafted. I haven't seen any signs to suggest he's any quicker than say J.Kennedy at Sydney. Not a complete plodder, but no real acceleration. Your thoughts on his athleticism?

Would Garlett, playing as a HFF say, be similar to the offensive half of say Cyril Rioli but without the same application to defensive play? By that I mean evasive, obviously quick but also with creative disposal into forward 50 targets? He's proven he can hit the scoreboard at WAFL level, but averages less that 2 tackles a game, which is disappointing.

Also, at Essendon, would he necessarily get a tag if played on a HFF? Perhaps a small defender like Nick Smith but not an out and out tagger I would have thought (granted, Nick Smith shuts down the best of them)

 

[Knightmare]

Wasn't Garlett Rookie listed by Essendon or at least trained with them and then let go due to off-field indiscretions? I doubt Essendon would give him another chance.

He trained with Essendon. Was considered for that PSD selection but overlooked.

I agree with you re. Kav. Came to the club with good raps despite injury history. Looks good as a large contested ball midfielder but yet to put on the muscle size to match his height. Kicking definitely an issue at this stage, although has been reasonable in the games he's played in the seniors. Was reputed to be reasonably fast when drafted. I haven't seen any signs to suggest he's any quicker than say J.Kennedy at Sydney. Not a complete plodder, but no real acceleration. Your thoughts on his athleticism?

Would Garlett, playing as a HFF say, be similar to the offensive half of say Cyril Rioli but without the same application to defensive play? By that I mean evasive, obviously quick but also with creative disposal into forward 50 targets? He's proven he can hit the scoreboard at WAFL level, but averages less that 2 tackles a game, which is disappointing.

Also, at Essendon, would he necessarily get a tag if played on a HFF? Perhaps a small defender like Nick Smith but not an out and out tagger I would have thought (granted, Nick Smith shuts down the best of them)

Kavanagh was never really a linebreaker but never slow either. Movement has always been good but not great.

Garlett is not Rioli but Rioli without that same special pressure side to his game isn't far off with his explosiveness and agility while very good not at that same elite level. Either that or a less explosive Harley Bennell is how I view his game.
I'd like to see Garlett play midfield but he would probably most likely start out on a forward flank. A tag may come if he has a string of strong games but probably not right away with Watson on the inside, Goddard outside and then Stanton those more likely to get attention but Garlett could well work up list of players to tag of of a game as he is one of the more damaging types who attracts plenty of the footy and as an opposition side you really want to stop him from getting the ball so he'll get some Nick Smith types go to him, no question.

 

[Rancid Trogs]

He trained with Essendon. Was considered for that PSD selection but overlooked.



Kavanagh was never really a linebreaker but never slow either. Movement has always been good but not great.

Garlett is not Rioli but Rioli without that same special pressure side to his game isn't far off with his explosiveness and agility while very good not at that same elite level. Either that or a less explosive Harley Bennell is how I view his game.
I'd like to see Garlett play midfield but he would probably most likely start out on a forward flank. A tag may come if he has a string of strong games but probably not right away with Watson on the inside, Goddard outside and then Stanton those more likely to get attention but Garlett could well work up list of players to tag of of a game as he is one of the more damaging types who attracts plenty of the footy and as an opposition side you really want to stop him from getting the ball so he'll get some Nick Smith types go to him, no question.

Cheers,

I don't think anyone is quite like Rioli. In my opinion, the best two way small forward I have seen (offensively and defensively). Questions over his consistency can be answered by the fact that he plays as a small forward and their are times where his role is to get out of the way (when the KPF are up and going). I like the comparison of Garlett as a less explosive Bennell. If he were to improve the defensive side of his game he solves a myriad of Essendon's needs (assuming he's available at a pick we want to use on him).

 

[Knightmare]

Cheers,

I don't think anyone is quite like Rioli. In my opinion, the best two way small forward I have seen (offensively and defensively). Questions over his consistency can be answered by the fact that he plays as a small forward and their are times where his role is to get out of the way (when the KPF are up and going). I like the comparison of Garlett as a less explosive Bennell. If he were to improve the defensive side of his game he solves a myriad of Essendon's needs (assuming he's available at a pick we want to use on him).

I think Cyril Rioli is in fact underrated so I also feel very strongly about his play.

He's the best small forward I've seen with his two way game so elite but his ability through the midfield also when injected in there is also really something.

It's just a shame Cyril has had his continued injury issues because when healthy I feel he's one of the best in the competition despite the position he plays.

Garlett while the media are again pumping him up as a 1st round prospect could again even drop into the rookie draft or go undrafted. You just don't know how clubs will evaluate his off-field behaviour and whether they feel he can be a fit into a clubs culture. So I think he'll be able to be had cheaper than most think. This may be 2nd round, this may be later. It's still an unknown until we hear more whispers closer to the draft.
Certainly last year Essendon were the only club even considering him, in the end just whether the number of suitors increases this year is anyones guess.

 

[the mighty T]

I do think Freeman is available at the Pies selection and while there are others who rate him I'm probably on that extreme high end with how highly I rate his game. He's generally regarded as a 10-20 type prospect and with Collingwood most likely having a selection somewhere closer to pick 10 I'd say more likely than not he's still there. If there he's the perfect fit and my choice in any case with Collingwood lacking some inside power but also that breakaway pace from the inside.

Tsitas has been very productive in the TAC and has elevated his inside game in a big way. Just not a super big body, not explosive and by foot a below average user so while he'll get drafted and deserves to somewhere in the first two rounds with the way he is playing he wouldn't be my selection with the Pies needing either more explosiveness through the midfield or more strength. Crouch, Sheed and Dunstan early would be those other guys I'd look at as those guys who really have the runs on the board and absolutely incredible production to back up their cases with Bontempelli that possible to be added to that shortlist depending on how he performs in the second half of the season.

A Jensen or Cripps in the second round may be that other alternative for inside mids as those taller, bigger bodied types who also use it well but at this stage aren't in that same class.

I'm expecting we make a play for a key forward this year. Enter the Boyd sweepstakes as a starting point and see what happens. But it probably comes down to drafting a guy. Perhaps this is a Cameron McCarthy early as a project or a Mitchell Harvey in the second round who is probably my preference of the two anyway as that other guy who projects as someone who can make the grade and develop into something.
I'm still optimistic about Paine and view him as AFL ready now but with Cloke in his mid 20s he'll be 30 by the time the guy we draft likely develops (usually allow 4 years for KPPs to develop).

If Moore works out treat that as a bonus but as we saw with James Stewart there are no guarantees and Moore hasn't yet produced in the TAC. I partly put the blame on him playing in the back half (same as at school level which is wrong) rather than up forward where he is best suited but until he dominates as Joe Daniher did last year he can't be regarded as a sure thing.

Thanks for the detailed response knight. How does Freeman compare to Lonergan from last years draft? I was pretty disappointed to see him get picked up before us as I thought he suited our needs to a tee. I'd like Sheed but from the limited vision I've seen, I imagine he'll be gone before our pick.

I'm all four getting on the Boyd bandwagon, but I get the feeling he'll cost the earth.

 

[Knightmare]

Thanks for the detailed response knight. How does Freeman compare to Lonergan from last years draft? I was pretty disappointed to see him get picked up before us as I thought he suited our needs to a tee. I'd like Sheed but from the limited vision I've seen, I imagine he'll be gone before our pick.

I'm all four getting on the Boyd bandwagon, but I get the feeling he'll cost the earth.

I feel Freeman compares favourably. Lonergan is a physical beast and more your inside distributor with his work by hand where he stands out most along with that hardness and strength over the ball.

Freeman is a different type and doesn't give you that same inside distribution by hand as someone who in a similar way to Beams though to a greater extent just jams it onto his boot which isn't ideal. While relatively strong bodied he's not strong bodied to the level of Lonergan. But he far has the athletic and skill by foot and hurt-factor advantages over Lonergan while still being a very good inside ball winner.

Don't be so sure Sheed will be gone by our selection. A number of scouts continue to talk about Sheed as being "one paced" so he's one who could very well be available even late 1st round as dominant as he was through the champs.

With Boyd it's a case of wait and see. Enter the sweepstakes. See what happens and if we don't have the currency/don't feel the currency is reasonable then we just explore different options. But whenever an opportunity comes to add a guy who probably becomes a top 10 league key forward, it's an opportunity to take a shot at.

 

[Yoda_]

I'm pretty surprised Kavanagh hasn't done more than he has to be honest. Not finding as much of it as expected and isn't by foot using it all that well either again given what was expected of him. Tackling game very good though. Still time for him to establish himself as a senior player but he'll want to have a breakout season next year or his list position may come under question.

I'm a little disappointed in his output but we all need to remember that he was virtually put in cotton wool last year and far exceeding everyones expectations at Essendon with how much he did play. Kavanagh just signed a 2 - year contract so the club must be impressed with his output.

As a one paced, one dimensional midfielder, he really does need to dominate VFL games like he did on occasions last year. Ultimately he will be groomed to replace out older brigade/bottom few midfielders like Howlett, Myers, Hocking etc.

I really like the position Essendon are in at the moment. A great core group of young talls and some other good pieces around them.

I'd like to see another 1-2 high end midfielders added and further small + medium help forward and back can be added but the list is in a good place. With the gamestyle played I'd also look to inject some more pace + skill to make that drive even more damaging.

Bellchambers I view as that most tradeable commodity and given his improvement. I'd probably lean towards retaining him as I feel his ceiling is high but he's a guy where if not confident his body can hold up perhaps then he could be moved on for a first round selection pretty easily.

My place for searching in Essendon's position would be at the young depth on opposition lists. Guys like Sam Kerridge, Patrick Karnezis, Viv Michie. George Horlin-Smith if he could be had is a guy I'd pay a premium to get.
Outside of midfielders Jack Fitzpatrick as an athletic potential no.2 ruckman/key forward if Bellchambers is moved on is the type who could come in as be a replacement given Melbourne's forward and ruck depth.
It's about looking for those guys who are surplus players with many of their type on that teams list and probably haven't received the regular opportunity their production suggests they possibly should.
In any case put those picks on the table and see if you can snag a couple of these if priced appropriately.

I'll agree with your calls that we need another 1 - 2 high end midfielders, would love a classy outside ball winner to come in and play some damaging games next year. A small forward who chases and harrases would compliment our team perfectly, but they don't grow on trees.

Im not sure we would be trading for the type of player you mentioned (GHS, Michie, Kerridge) when we have a dearth of our own young players chomping at the bit to get a chance at the next level (Nick O'Brien this week).

Joe Daniher >>>> Jack Fitzpatrick

 

[Yoda_]

Thoughts on some of the Frankston VFL boys?

Pongracic, Kitchin and Potts. Any chance these guys get looked at, maybe a rookie spot?

I'll jump in here StevieDewar

Of the better Frankston prospects to be looked at two really stand out

Sam Lloyd: 182cm, 82kg, 3.3.90, Forward
Exceptionally talented forward who has had somewhat of a breakout season with the stand alone Dolphins by kicking 29 goals in 11 matches and a bag of 5 in the VFL state game. Having not really been on the radar before, his output for a relatively untried VFL player could see someone take a punt.

Michael Lourey: 196cm, 94kg, 6.10.89, Forward
Big hulking forward who is having a strong season. Big motor, big kick, bog body. Maybe not as dominant as say a Dean Galea in the contested marking front, but probably more valuable up the ground.


There is a long list of 'chances' of sneaking onto a rookie list or two. Keep an eye out for;

Luke Potts (180cm, 78kg, 24, midfielder) been a big fan of his for a while now and can really do it all.
Lachlan Delahunty (191cm, 82kg, 23, utility) think Justin Westhoff and he is it at VFL level.
Riley Heddles (178cm, 83kg, 22, defender) small defender who played in the state game after finally getting his body right.
Ziggie Alwan (186cm, 90kg, 25, utility/forward) Noble Park/EFL GUN who has all the attributes of an AFL player.
Shane Hockey (178cm, 77kg, 25, midfielder) taken his game to another level this year. one to watch.
Jason Pongracic (183cm, 88kg, 19, midfielder) unlucky last year who has shown some good signs.
Rus Gabriel (198cm, 110kg, 24, ruck) one of my favs as a big strong Mumford - style ruckmen.
Khan Haretuku (199cm, 101kg, 24, forward) fwd/2nd ruckmen who has good form at this level.

 

[Yoda_]

Oh yeah, forgot to ask why I came in here..

Zach Merret

Really anticipating your profile for him as the games I saw him in (yeah, yeah, admittedly on TV like everyone else). He impressed me with his ball use and vision and his ability to read the play.

Why do you have him so low at #40?

 

[Knightmare]

As my top mature agers i've got: George Hampson, Braydn O'Hara, Ziggie Alwan, Chris Cain and Mitch Thorp.

Michael Sikora, Ben Brown, Matthew Sully, Ben Moloney, Marlon Motlop, Byron Sumner are others I think will get strongly considered.

Oh yeah, forgot to ask why I came in here..

Zach Merret

Really anticipating your profile for him as the games I saw him in (yeah, yeah, admittedly on TV like everyone else). He impressed me with his ball use and vision and his ability to read the play.

Why do you have him so low at #40?

Merrett is one of the absolute elite users of the footy in this draft.

Not as tall as his brother and can fade in and out of games and for such a good user needs to get more involved.

 

[Yoda_]

Merrett is one of the absolute elite users of the footy in this draft.

Not as tall as his brother and can fade in and out of games and for such a good user needs to get more involved.

Surely there is more to it than him fading in and out of games?