Leigh Matthews Trophy: the respect or the disrespect of your peers?

[Lunchlady Doris]

It's interesting that so many Geelong players have such varied opinions on who the 2nd and 3rd best players were in 2008 when you consider it was fairly unanimous amongst the other 600 players.

That's the whole point, Duh-ris

Yeah you're probably onto something. But put yourself in their shoes, you agree with the rest of the world that Ablett is the best player for the year. It's a bit hollow having to vote for the best player, without being allowed to. Would probably cause them to take it less seriously than the rest.

Still, 15 2s and 11 1s is alright.

 

[Chewy]

Geelong's players did not cheapen Ablett's victory. He won by over 300 votes. If you took out Geelong, Carlton and Collingwood's votes Ablett would still win so get over it. He deserved it. Clearly it is a whinge because you wanted Buddy to win but instead of stating that you're just trying to bring down Ablett's win instead.

Wrong on every count. Ablett was the worthy winner. There is no argument. I didn't want Franklin to win it, because I knew that Gary Ablett should win it. Maybe next year for Buddy and only then, if he makes friends with all the Collingwood nobodies, stops kicking bags of goals against them and celebrating with the fans. As for Carlton, perhaps the Hawks should handball more goals to Fev so Fev can also kick 100 and we can all toss off together.

But don't kid yourself: the Geelong players DID cheapen Ablett's victory
It was unnecessary for them to conspire to engineer the result, such was the winning margin. But in doing so, they were not honest with their votes and showed contempt for the majority of AFL players who treated the award with the proper respect.

Imagine if this becomes the annual way of the award, where all teammates steer their votes away from the main guys and choose the 5th or 6th best in their votes. We might even end up with a Ryan Lonie as the AFL MVP.

 

[Helfarch]

It's all a Collingwood conspiracy to kepp 'Buddy' down!

 

[Chewy]

Yeah you're probably onto something. But put yourself in their shoes, you agree with the rest of the world that Ablett is the best player for the year. It's a bit hollow having to vote for the best player, without being allowed to. Would probably cause them to take it less seriously than the rest.

Still, 15 2s and 11 1s is alright.

15 x 2's and 11 x 1's would mean 0 x 3's and also that 14 guys left him out altogether.
That could only mean a conspiracy on the part of the Geelong guys.

Let's say that six of Geelong's players didn't buy into any of the crap and they stuck Buddy on top.
6 x 3's, 7 x 2's and 9 x 1's. That would mean 18 Geelong players leaving him out of their top 3.

You could argue that all of this is just a coincidence, but then how would you explain the double coincidence of Brent Harvey receiving similar treatment in their voting?

That makes it all twice as unlikely

 

[dharma bum]

Respect for players and peers is a criterion for the award.
If, as a number of people think, Collingwood players didn't rate Franklin because he was a bad bloke to John Anthony, then that's perfectly acceptable under the criteria for MVP.
Personally, as hard as it is for many Hawks fans to accept, I think Collingwood players might just rate Ablett and Harvey higher. It might also reflect on what kind of player is valued within the type of game Collingwood play. Ablett and Harvey wouldn't certainly be more valuable to us, as we have a genuine weakness in our midfield.

Did you maybe overlook this post, Chewy? It certainly goes some way to addressing the perceived discrepancy in voting.
As enosis7 suggests, perhaps the players simply asked themselves the obvious question: "Which bloke would I want on my team?". That a significant number of players from the Cats [and several other clubs] cast their votes elsewhere perhaps tells us something about the way in which Lance Franklin is perceived by his peers from those teams.

Agree with you about the deficiencies of the 3-2-1 Brownlow system, though. Hardly seems fair to equate a game like Gary's in Round11 against North to whoever gets the 3 votes for some Sydney v StKilda 10 goal snoozer.

 

[Thrust]

Imagine if this becomes the annual way of the award, where all teammates steer their votes away from the main guys and choose the 5th or 6th best in their votes. We might even end up with a Ryan Lonie as the AFL MVP.

It won't.

Ablett was clearly going to win, any votes the geelong players could have made were going to be irrelevent.

 

[Chewy]

It's all a Collingwood conspiracy to kepp 'Buddy' down!

More like an "up yours, Figjam" from John Anthony's teammates... which is their right to do so, just that it cheapens the award and makes them look like little bitches in the process.

Why can't the players just name their MVP?

It's not that hard.

 

[Thrust]

That could only mean a conspiracy on the part of the Geelong guys.

CONSPIRACY!
CONSPIRACY!
CONSPIRACY!
CONSPIRACY!
CONSPIRACY!
CONSPIRACY!

quite an effort with 44 people who could divulge this secret and make the whole conspiracy come unstuck.

 

[FevolasFox]

I see Judd got plenty of votes from the club sitting in the box seat

 

[PatrickBateman]

It won't.

Ablett was clearly going to win, any votes the geelong players could have made were going to be irrelevent.

The amount Ablett won by puts all discussion to rest. Get over it. If Bartel was in the mix he probably would have finished up around about where Franklin did in overall points with Ablett still clearly the best.

 

[dharma bum]

More like an "up yours, Figjam" from John Anthony's teammates... which is their right to do so, just that it cheapens the award and makes them look like little bitches in the process.

Why can't the players just name their MVP?

It's not that hard.

I agree, it's not.
It's just that their idea of "valuable" is different from yours.

Actually the real conspiracy here is that Jim Bartel received no votes at all.

 

[toomanysquibs]

Actually the real conspiracy here is that Jim Bartel received no votes at all.

I think that actually supports Chewy's point - the award is flawed in Jimmy doesn't even qualify for the thing. Casts questions over the nomination process. If he's not top 3 at the cats, I don't know who is.

 

[Rockford]

Why don't you attempt to provide some explanation for the voting discrepancy?

What discrepancy? Franklin got most of the votes from the Cats' players. Which of the 6 players that received votes from Cats' players (Franklin, Harvey, Judd, Richo, Riewoldt and Cooney) do you think were unworthy of receiving votes? Generally speaking the simplest explanation for something is the correct one, in this case, the simplest explanation is not that the Geelong players colluded in an effort to stop Buddy winning it. I'm sure they couldn't have cared less. That you think they did says more about your state of mind then anything else.

I'm not trying to start baseless rumours, but simply commenting on something, making an observation using all the available evidence and giving my prognosis.

It appears that the Geelong boys tried to ensure they got their man over the line by spreading their votes around as much as possible. The players who did this should realise they have demeaned Gary Ablett's award.

These two quotes appear to be quite contractidary to eachother. I'm not surprised Geelong supporters are questioning your motives.

I leave myself wide open by posting more than the rest of you, but you can't even add anything worthy to the topic, can you?

If it were a worthy topic, people might try harder.

 

[The 747]

Well come on then, smart guy. Why don't you attempt to provide some explanation for the voting discrepancy?

Have a look at those vote tallies from each club in my OP and give me your plausible explanation for what might've occurred.

This would be far more useful than reading each of my posts in isolation and taking my words out of context. You're just trying to discredit me further without addressing the issue.

As I said in other threads, this is not a court of law. There is no burden of proof. I'm not trying to start baseless rumours, but simply commenting on something, making an observation using all the available evidence and giving my prognosis.

I leave myself wide open by posting more than the rest of you, but you can't even add anything worthy to the topic, can you?

To summarise you Chewy, there appears to a disprepancy in the Geelong players votes in that they have not voted for the same players in the manner of other clubs.

You have taken upon yourself to post as fact the reason for this is that they deliberately voted dishonestly to ensure Ablett won. You have no way of knowing this, it is just a theory of yours to explain the disrepancy.

Maybe, considering that Geelong only lost 1 game for the season the players didn't see too many standout performances from big name players against them and therefore did not rate those player's seasons as highly as others. There is one possible theory but I aint posting it as a fact.

But you continue to post your theory as a fact and wonder why you get continually attacked?

 

[Shawt]

It's the Leigh Matthews Trophy, not the Dermie Cup. Players will vote for what they see as worthy of holding that thing up... and goals scored isn't the only category for judging

It also comes down to a club culture perspective. Collingwood have always valued team oriented players above all others. That is drilled into them from day one, and of course it will influence what they think of opposition players.

 

[THRILLHOU]

It's the Leigh Matthews Trophy, not the Dermie Cup. Players will vote for what they see as worthy of holding that thing up... and goals scored isn't the only category for judging

It also comes down to a club culture perspective. Collingwood have always valued team oriented players above all others. That is drilled into them from day one, and of course it will influence what they think of opposition players.

What a load of hogwosh. The pies have had as many public foul ups as any club in the last five years. Were heater and dids thinking about their team when they crashed the car and then lied to police - particularly given their affiliation with the TAC? Taz and Ben Johnson? Holland getting in a scuffle with a girl?

Looks like they need a new drill bit.

The pies one is more interesting to me than the cats one. Buddy kicked 14 goals 10 against them in two games. Sour grapes?

The award i would value most is the coaches award. Vote for their best players on the day, and the oppositions most damaging players and roll with that. No sour grapes, transparent, and not done at the end of the season when half of the teams really dont care about AFL anymore.

 

[Chris who]

I agree, it's not.
It's just that their idea of "valuable" is different from yours.

Actually the real conspiracy here is that Jim Bartel received no votes at all.

Beacause your team didnt nomintate him, leaving ablett as a standout for your club

 

[al ain pie]

Does the Leigh Matthews Trophy recognize the player that does 'the best king hit behind play leaving your opponent with a broken jaw'. Were there any nominee's this year?

 

[Patronus]

Maybe Geelong value different attributes in players than other clubs. They emphasis team work over individual accomplishment and this may effect their voting.

You would have noticed if you watch Geelong games they are more interested in congratulating the player who sets up a goal over the one who scores it (Mooney and Varcoe on Sunday as an example).

If it were all about how many goals you kicked Fevola would have only trailed Franklin by a few votes.

 

[THRILLHOU]

Maybe Geelong value different attributes in players than other clubs. They emphasis team work over individual accomplishment and this may effect their voting.

You would have noticed if you watch Geelong games they are more interested in congratulating the player who sets up a goal over the one who scores it (Mooney and Varcoe on Sunday as an example).

If it were all about how many goals you kicked Fevola would have only trailed Franklin by a few votes.

Every team thinks they are above all the others in thier 'team' focus. All 16 teams think they are the most team oriented. The bloods ethos *wank wank*. We have already had two pies supporters saying its the Malthouse way, and just now you post this.

Have you ever seen buddy interviewed? Post game, special interviews. He always tries to deflect the focus AWAY from himself and onto the team, the midfield etc.

So i guess he loses votes for what, enjoying kicking goals. Heaven forbid. Hes at work for gods sake!

 

[Rockford]

Beacause your team didnt nomintate him, leaving ablett as a standout for your club

You know that the players were allowed to vote for more than one player from the same club, yeah?

 

[Crow-mo]

I suppose many of the AFL footballers don't really care about this stuff and they are just like little kids when filling out the voting form, laughing and joking around.

The thing is, if the players themselves don't show this award the proper respect, then why should anyone else care about it?

they don't treat it seriously, that has always been the problem.

they tend to follow what the media or everyone else says because its not that important.

the opinions of the players would be very important, if they took them seriously. but that's not what we get.

 

[H2F]

they don't treat it seriously, that has always been the problem.

they tend to follow what the media or everyone else says because its not that important.

the opinions of the players would be very important, if they took them seriously. but that's not what we get.

It's hard to argue with Chewy's and your arguments, given Franklin is by FAR the most valuable player.

 

[Big John]

Wrong on every count. Ablett was the worthy winner. There is no argument. I didn't want Franklin to win it, because I knew that Gary Ablett should win it. Maybe next year for Buddy and only then, if he makes friends with all the Collingwood nobodies, stops kicking bags of goals against them and celebrating with the fans. As for Carlton, perhaps the Hawks should handball more goals to Fev so Fev can also kick 100 and we can all toss off together.

But don't kid yourself: the Geelong players DID cheapen Ablett's victory
It was unnecessary for them to conspire to engineer the result, such was the winning margin. But in doing so, they were not honest with their votes and showed contempt for the majority of AFL players who treated the award with the proper respect.

Imagine if this becomes the annual way of the award, where all teammates steer their votes away from the main guys and choose the 5th or 6th best in their votes. We might even end up with a Ryan Lonie as the AFL MVP.

The Geelong players vote Lance Franklin as the most valuable player in the league that doesn't play for Geelong. They also give votes to Judd, Richo, Riewoldt and Cooney. All of them excellent players. 2 of them previous winners of the MVP award if i'm not mistaken.

However they didn't have Franklin winning by a large enough margin so it was obviously a conspiracy to ensure that Ablett won the award. If they weren't voting for Franklin they didn't do a very good job of it.

 

[Real Insight]

What better award can you win than one voted by your peers.

Think about this...
For 365 days this year (being a leap year) we bag the umpires, they can't see whats in front of them and yet for that last Monday before the grand final we care what they think.
The Brownlow is a joke of a award.
the AFLPA & coaches awards are by far the best awards a player can win. Its voted by the only people in the sport that count.