Draft Profile Liam Stocker

[Robertio]

They sure are. We found out Tambling was a dud. And Oliver is an AA.
Looks like we both missed a trick there eh?

Weitering will be All Australian as well, at worst will be a good player. No miss there.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Untrue. Fake news.

Pretty much no one expected Collingwood in the 8, let alone top 2.

Sydney Swans $5.50
Adelaide Crows $5.75
GWS Giants $6
Richmond $7
Geelong Cats $10
Melbourne $15
Port Adelaide $15
Essendon $17

Hawthorn $21
Western Bulldogs $21
Collingwood $26
West Coast $29
St Kilda $34
Fremantle $51
Carlton $67
Brisbane Lions $101
Not Melbourne $101
Gold Coast Suns $126


1 Richmond 72 22 18 4 0 136.15
2 West Coast 64 22 16 6 0 121.42
3 Collingwood 60 22 15 7 0 120.42
4 Hawthorn 60 22 15 7 0 120.10
5 Melbourne 56 22 14 8 0 131.45
6 Sydney 56 22 14 8 0 109.50
7 GWS 54 22 13 8 1 114.27
8 Geelong 52 22 13 9 0 131.60

9 North Melbourne 48 22 12 10 0 108.94
10 Port Adelaide 48 22 12 10 0 107.62
11 Essendon 48 22 12 10 0 105.11
12 Adelaide 48 22 12 10 0 104.08
13 Western Bulldogs 32 22 8 14 0 77.32
14 Fremantle 32 22 8 14 0 76.24
15 Brisbane 20 22 5 17 0 89.07
16 St Kilda 18 22 4 17 1 75.58
17 Gold Coast 16 22 4 18 0 59.95
18 Carlton 8 22 2 20 0 59.29

 

[Rich01]

Weitering will be All Australian as well, at worst will be a good player. No miss there.

Here’s hoping.

Picked as the number one player in his draft class, you wouldn’t want to waste that sort of pick on just a good tall intercepting defender. Those sorts of players are the guys you can pick up or trade for a mid first rounder.

 

[La Dispute]

A stack of big misses in that list!

Richmond 4th despite winning the Grand Final, Sydney 1st, West Coast missing the finals, Hawthorn missing the finals, Adelaide making the finals, GWS making the Top 4, Port Adelaide making the finals, Collingwood missing the finals, North 17th...

Actually very reassuring - thank you

 

[Malifice]

Sydney Swans $5.50
Adelaide Crows $5.75
GWS Giants $6
Richmond $7
Geelong Cats $10
Melbourne $15
Port Adelaide $15
Essendon $17

Hawthorn $21
Western Bulldogs $21
Collingwood $26
West Coast $29
St Kilda $34
Fremantle $51
Carlton $67
Brisbane Lions $101
Not Melbourne $101
Gold Coast Suns $126


1 Richmond 72 22 18 4 0 136.15
2 West Coast 64 22 16 6 0 121.42
3 Collingwood 60 22 15 7 0 120.42
4 Hawthorn 60 22 15 7 0 120.10
5 Melbourne 56 22 14 8 0 131.45
6 Sydney 56 22 14 8 0 109.50
7 GWS 54 22 13 8 1 114.27
8 Geelong 52 22 13 9 0 131.60

9 North Melbourne 48 22 12 10 0 108.94
10 Port Adelaide 48 22 12 10 0 107.62
11 Essendon 48 22 12 10 0 105.11
12 Adelaide 48 22 12 10 0 104.08
13 Western Bulldogs 32 22 8 14 0 77.32
14 Fremantle 32 22 8 14 0 76.24
15 Brisbane 20 22 5 17 0 89.07
16 St Kilda 18 22 4 17 1 75.58
17 Gold Coast 16 22 4 18 0 59.95
18 Carlton 8 22 2 20 0 59.29

Lol.

So not one spot was accurately predicted last year, and 3 of the predicted top 8 (nearly half) didn't make the 8 at all.

You're using this as evidence that bookies predictions are reliable?

I almost like your other alt accounts better.

 

[LemmingMaster]

In saying that they closely predicted the bottom half of the draw, not great for Carlton jumping high.

 

[Arr0w]

In saying that they closely predicted the bottom half of the draw, not great for Carlton jumping high.

I doubt anyone has us outside the bottom 6, but stating we will definitely finish bottom 2, is flawed.

 

[RedFury]

Would you mind pointing out the bits “lifted from poorly researched journo articles”?

I don’t think any of the facts that I posted are indisputable.

Look, probably a bit harsh to say "lifted" as I'm sure it's your own genuine opinion, but it's just a really common one that Carlton supporters that understand where the club is going and why we've made the decisions we have get a little bit tired of. Now I don't blame neutral fans for having that opinion because you guys will only believe what you see (in games) and what the media feeds you.

TLDR for the following: A lot of neutral supporters opinions about our recruiting are based on believing poorly conceived media articles and not understanding the true reasons for our horrible 2-win season.

Long version:

1) What the footy media says about us

It's been media types like Matthew Loyd that have written lazy, research-free, surface-level articles about our recruiting.

The reality is that around 75-80% of our trade currency over the past 4 years have NOT gone into GWS players. They have gone into young talent in the draft, like Weitering, Curnow, Mackay, Petrevski-Seton, Fisher, Williamson, Macreadie, Dow, O'Brien, Cuningham, Walsh and Stocker.

Add to these guys the four GWS targets that we have genuinely gone after (and got for decent prices) - Setterfield, Kennedy, Marchbank and Plowman.

These guys are the rebuild. And there's nothing to suggest that any of those players, including the GWS four, aren't going to make it if a couple of them can work through their injury issues. Marchbank and Plowman are already best 22, with Plowman in the leadership group last year.

The other GWS players were basically salary dumps, or free swings that we hoped would provide some cover and depth. They didn't really work out, but we didn't actually pay anything for them either. People need to stop pretending that GWS-trading has been some core strategy in our rebuild because it absolutely as not. We've taken good-value trades from them when we've believed in will provide young talent to add to the rebuild, or depth to cover for it.

2) Our on-field performance in 2018

Well it's difficult to defend this from what an opposition supporter sees, but there are reasons.

The first thing people need to keep in mind is exactly how far back we were coming from when we decided to rebuild in 2015. The list was a huge mess - and the first thing we needed to do was actually trade out a lot of the older talent we actually did have in order to hit the draft the way we needed to. Think GWS or Suns when they were starting, but wit less concessions, and I'm not even joking here.

Fast forward 3 years and what you get in 2018 is a list that is the youngest and least experienced that group is ever going to be - yes there is a lot more potential but that takes time to develop. It actually makes perfect sense that the 3rd year of a complete rebuild (where at the end of each of those years you're removing more experienced players and replacing them with younger, raw talent) is going to be the toughest - particularly when you combine that year with a horrible run with injuries and very questionable (to say the least) injury management.

There is a very good reason why we sacked our previous High Performance guy at the end of the 2018 season and threw the kitchen sink at Andrew Russell to get him over from Hawthorn. There were huge question marks over our player management in 2018 and it's one of the key reasons why our year was so terrible - our team had no continuity at all with players constantly in and out. And yes - a more developed and mature team would have the depth to cover for this, but in the most vulnerable year of our rebuild, we didn't.

As evidence for this, since starting at the club Russell (according to ITK posters on our board) has already expressed serious surprise at just how underdone for AFL level a lot of our players actually were.

I think you'll see a significant jump from us over the next 2 seasons as our players from the start of the rebuild move into their fourth and fifth years and we supplement that with other talent to fill holes. I'm confident SOS has chosen well, and certainly don't see any real evidence to the contrary at the moment. Of course, whether they'll turn out to be good players that can get us into the 8, or great players that will get us to a flag is something we won't know for some time yet.

As for your comment about the facts not being indisputable - well that makes them opinions, not facts

 

[La Dispute]

In saying that they closely predicted the bottom half of the draw, not great for Carlton jumping high.

Just wonder which two predicted bottom half teams will make the Grand Final next year?

Fingers crossed

 

[LemmingMaster]

Adelaide and Essendon look the most likely to jump, which does not favour our trade.

 

[jezzajay]

Sydney Swans $5.50
Adelaide Crows $5.75
GWS Giants $6
Richmond $7
Geelong Cats $10
Melbourne $15
Port Adelaide $15
Essendon $17

Hawthorn $21
Western Bulldogs $21
Collingwood $26
West Coast $29
St Kilda $34
Fremantle $51
Carlton $67
Brisbane Lions $101
Not Melbourne $101
Gold Coast Suns $126


1 Richmond 72 22 18 4 0 136.15
2 West Coast 64 22 16 6 0 121.42
3 Collingwood 60 22 15 7 0 120.42
4 Hawthorn 60 22 15 7 0 120.10
5 Melbourne 56 22 14 8 0 131.45
6 Sydney 56 22 14 8 0 109.50
7 GWS 54 22 13 8 1 114.27
8 Geelong 52 22 13 9 0 131.60

9 North Melbourne 48 22 12 10 0 108.94
10 Port Adelaide 48 22 12 10 0 107.62
11 Essendon 48 22 12 10 0 105.11
12 Adelaide 48 22 12 10 0 104.08
13 Western Bulldogs 32 22 8 14 0 77.32
14 Fremantle 32 22 8 14 0 76.24
15 Brisbane 20 22 5 17 0 89.07
16 St Kilda 18 22 4 17 1 75.58
17 Gold Coast 16 22 4 18 0 59.95
18 Carlton 8 22 2 20 0 59.29

LOL!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jezzajay]

You're full of it, and either trolling or oblivious to football. I made a thread about this on the main board, detaling the drafting over the past few years since SOS has come on board.

Our current predicament isnt due to SOS, it's due to our woeful drafting from 2007-2014 (in the time before SOS came on board). We blew 8/9 first round Picks in that time on Lucas, Bootsma, McLean, Yarran, Menzel, Boekhoest, Jacksch, Watson (only Cripps was a win and remains on the list), and our 2nd, 3rd and later picks didnt fare any better.

Accordingly we had a huge hole in our list with almost no talent of the ages of 18-26 at the start of 2015 with Murphy, Gibbs, Kruezer and Simpson being our core players, and not much else of note on the list (and those 3 blokes pushing 30).

We were headed towards the edge of a massive cliff.

SOS was given a mandate to fill the list full of young players and do a 'total list reset' from the ground up, essentially building a brand new list around Docherty (then 21) and Cripps (then 20) with everyone else expendible. In the last 4 drafts/ trade periods we've traded out senior players for extra picks (Gibbs, Yarran, Henderson, Tuohy) and brought in over a dozen quality young players (who are mostly still developing). Walsh, Stocker, Setterfield, Dow, Kennedy, McGovern, Weitering, Curnow, McKay, Fisher, Marchbank, Kennedy, Plowman, SPS, OBrien.

Thats 15 x 1st round picks in just 4 drafts/ 3 years.

We now have what we believe is the core of our list going forwards, but they're mostly still 18-21 years of age and in their first, second or third years (I.e. too young to be regular stars, and in need of a few more pre-seasons).

We're done with the draft for a few years now (as can be seen with the trading of next years 1st for Stocker). Next year we'll look to get a years development into the list we have, and then will look to supplement that list with F/A and trades in areas of need.

Love that you take the time to explain the clubs position to some of these posters, but something tells me it’s all in vain..

 

[the nail]

If Silvagni had done a brilliant job you still wouldn’t be languishing at the bottom of the ladder. The host of second rate GWS castaways he’s brought into the club is ample evidence of a guy that really hasn’t learnt a thing. First, he drafts them whilst at GWS, then, even when GWS are happy to part with them, trades for them again! It’s mind blowing and quite lazy recruiting. Bringing in both his sons also smacks of nepotism.

Silvagni comes across as a thoroughly unimpressive individual intellectually. Just hope that the Blues keep him as the longer he’s there the less likely you guys are to be a force again. He was a great footballer. But terrible list manager.

youre a clu less cat...worry about your own club......so ,marchbank,kenedey,setterfield,pickett,wouldnt get a game with your mob....dont be mad because sos,was twice the fullback scarlett was

 

[the nail]

i

Here’s hoping.

Picked as the number one player in his draft class, you wouldn’t want to waste that sort of pick on just a good tall intercepting defender. Those sorts of players are the guys you can pick up or trade for a mid first rounder.

snt that how rance has played his whole career......geez

 

[The Grover]

Adelaide and Essendon look the most likely to jump, which does not favour our trade.

Obviously I hope we get wins this season.

But I don't really give a shit what the draft picks are.

Stocker + 1 player v 1 player , it will be judged in 3-5 years.

If we get a Kelly v Salem, Tyson we lose.

I'm sure there are countless scenarios where 2 v 1 and the 2 players come out in front.

 

[Alphonse_]

At the very least SOS (rightly or wrongly) has the gonads to make high risk/high reward trades as recruiting manager, unlike that entrenched conservative old fart Stephen Wells at Geelong, who is wasting Dangerfield's prime years with some putrid/diabolical moves.

At any rate, Carlton have nothing to lose with Silvagni's approach.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Carlton have nothing to lose with Silvagni's approach.

Apart from pick 1 / 2 in the 2019 AFL national draft potentially.

sos,was twice the fullback scarlett was

Rance > SOS / scarlett

 

[jezzajay]

Ignorance is bliss..

 

[Rich01]

i

snt that how rance has played his whole career......geez

Yep and Rance was picked up at 19.
Comparing number one pick Weitering to Rance is laughable. Weitering will be lucky to even be the best intercept defender in his draft class let alone best player. Not what you want from a number one pick.

Although still expect him to end up better than serviceable.

 

[Arr0w]

Yep and Rance was picked up at 19.
Comparing number one pick Weitering to Rance is laughable. Weitering will be lucky to even be the best intercept defender in his draft class let alone best player. Not what you want from a number one pick.

Although still expect him to end up better than serviceable.

What a pathetic attempt at trolling

 

[Arr0w]

Apart from pick 1 / 2 in the 2019 AFL national draft potentially.



Rance > SOS / scarlett

Another troll

Still waiting for that wager

 

[Rich01]

What a pathetic attempt at trolling

Weiterings exposed form hasn’t been any better than Doodee as an intercept defender and no better than Aaron Francis as a key defender.

Hopefully he ends up at Lever quality as an intercept defender which would be valuable to your team.

 

[Arr0w]

Weiterings exposed form hasn’t been any better than Doodee as an intercept defender and no better than Aaron Francis as a key defender.

Hopefully he ends up at Lever quality as an intercept defender which would be valuable to your team.

Correct me if I am wrong, is this not a Stocker thread?

If you want to discuss pick 1 players, perhaps take it somewhere else

 

[Rich01]

Correct me if I am wrong, is this not a Stocker thread?

If you want to discuss pick 1 players, perhaps take it somewhere else

Sorry man, spose I just need to overlook the Carlton supporters trying to bait me with Tambling talk in this thread eh?

Back to Stocker, think he is decent at pick 19. Would have been ok with us picking him at 20 if RCD was off the board. But would have also been ok with picking Eli Smith or Hill if RCD was off the board. Will be interesting to see how all these guys develop.

 

[juss]

It doesn’t take bookies odds to justify a prediction Carlton will be bottom 6 next year. They will improve, but could finish anywhere from 17th to 12th. That’s their floor and ceiling imo.

Gold Coast are absolute locks for the spoon.