Draft Profile Liam Stocker

[year of the cat]

You were doing so well there, and then you post trolling tripe like that.

Says more about you than it does about SOS.

As were you until that line. Nice condescending way to finish.

It says that I have an opinion of his intellect that you clearly don't agree with. That is all.

 

[Malifice]

As were you until that line. Nice condescending way to finish.

It says that I have an opinion of his intellect that you clearly don't agree with. That is all.

Its an unnecessary comment designed to incite anger.

We can discuss his trading and drafting since coming to the club without that sort of shit getting tossed around.

 

[Marcel Proust]

The core midfield 8 is now: Cripps (pick 13), Dow (pick 3), SPS (pick 6), Setterfield (pick 5), Walsh (pick 1), Stocker (pick 19), Kennedy (pick 13), Fisher (pick 27).

The talent is there, but age wise they're young. Average age is around 20. 2 x players are yet to debut (Walsh and Stocker),


1 x player is coming off his 1st year (Dow), 3 x are coming off their second year (Fisher, SPS, Setterfield), and 1 x player just finished his 3rd year (Kennedy). Two of those players have had injury interrupted starts as well (Kennedy and Setterfield). Only Cripps has been in the system longer than 3 years (and he's still young at 23).

They need time and good development.

This is partly why people are telling Carlton fans it may have not been a great idea to trade the Blues first rounder '19.

 

[Malifice]

This is partly why people are telling Carlton fans it may have not been a great idea to trade the Blues first rounder '19.

We're almost certainly not using a 1st rounder at the draft anyway. We have a gazillion 1st round picks in our list as it stands, with 15 of them coming in over the past 4 drafts/ trade periods alone. Drafting yet another 18 year old kid wont do jack squat.

The first rounder that we do have next year (Adelaide) in all likelihood gets traded out for an established elite player. We're losing it in a trade.

We had a plan coming into this rebuild; first it was 3 years of list resetting (going hard at the draft and tipping in as many early draft picks as we can, focusing on youth, building the core of the future list) then we switch to Phase 2 (trading in elite talent and free agency around that core). Next year is year 1 of Phase 2.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Very safe bet it will be a teens pick for carlton from us next year

Win/win for both teams

 

[Socrates2]

The Stoker deal was bad management from Silvagni. Let's say Carlton finish 17th and Adelaide finish 7th, it means that pick 2 swapped for pick 12 and 22.The draft calculator says 12 and 22 are worth pick 4, so Carlton lose the value between pick 2 and 4. https://www.draftguru.com.au/pick-value-calculator#12,22

 

[The Grover]

The Stoker deal was bad management from Silvagni. Let's say Carlton finish 17th and Adelaide finish 7th, it means that pick 2 swapped for pick 12 and 22.The draft calculator says 12 and 22 are worth pick 4, so Carlton lose the value between pick 2 and 4. https://www.draftguru.com.au/pick-value-calculator#12,22

Wow, lose 2 spots in value.

Who is Stoker?

 

[Socrates2]

Looking forward to your new low pressure forward structures in action. Hopefully you just bomb it in

I think Riewoldt and Lynch are a bit better than Walker and Jenkins , Tex needs to give up the captaincy to Sloane and Fogerty has to improve.Richmond now have the the 2 best tall forwards in the league and we traded pick nothing for Lynch, which was a nice price.

 

[Socrates2]

Wow, lose 2 spots in value.

Who is Stoker?

Well the 2 spots is worth about pick 27, so you've given away pick 27 for nothing plus if Stocker doesn't work out, it's a total stuff up.If Carlton ranked Stocker the 6th best player in the draft, you need a new list management team imo

 

[La Dispute]

The Stoker deal was bad management from Silvagni. Let's say Carlton finish 17th and Adelaide finish 7th, it means that pick 2 swapped for pick 12 and 22.The draft calculator says 12 and 22 are worth pick 4, so Carlton lose the value between pick 2 and 4. https://www.draftguru.com.au/pick-value-calculator#12,22

And if Stocker goes on to be the best player of his draft pool and the player we pick with Adelaide’s 2019 goes on to be the best player of his draft pool? You’re placing far too much emphasis on three complete unknown commodities and two hypothetical draft positions.

We’ve established a number of pages back the current premiership odds are nothing but guesswork, so I can’t see any real merit in speculating on points differentials at this stage.

Until the conclusion of next season this discussion is relatively redundant.

 

[Socrates2]

And if Stocker goes on to be the best player of his draft pool and the player we pick with Adelaide’s 2019 goes on to be the best player of his draft pool? You’re placing far too much emphasis on three complete unknown commodities and two hypothetical draft positions.

We’ve established a number of pages back the current premiership odds are nothing but guesswork, so I can’t see any real merit in speculating on points differentials at this stage.

Until the conclusion of next season this discussion is relatively redundant.

It's long odds that Stocker or Adelaides 1st round pick to Carlton are going to be the best players in the drafts.In moneyball terms, Carlton has lost out unless you think your recruiting team is better than everyone elses.

 

[Monkey King]

Well the 2 spots is worth about pick 27, so you've given away pick 27 for nothing plus if Stocker doesn't work out, it's a total stuff up.If Carlton ranked Stocker the 6th best player in the draft, you need a new list management team imo

So basically you’re saying if it goes worst case scenario at every turn, this deal will be a bust?

Errr ... no shit!

 

[La Dispute]

It's long odds that Stocker or Adelaides 1st round pick to Carlton are going to be the best players in the drafts.In moneyball terms, Carlton has lost out unless you think your recruiting team is better than everyone elses.

You realise the conclusion of Moneyball was that you can’t construct a list on pure metrics alone? The complete opposite of what you’re arguing.

In any case you’re projecting three separate outcomes that have 9 months to crystallise. Pointing to premiership odds as if there’s some tangible truth to predict the winner of this trade (not to mention the duration of Stocker’s career and the duration of the two first round picks next year’s careers) really is quite pointless.

 

[Socrates2]

So basically you’re saying if it goes worst case scenario at every turn, this deal will be a bust?

Errr ... no shit!

Yeah nah, for the deal to be worth it you need Stoker to be a gun and to pluck a gun with your 1st round selection next year.Too many ifs and buts for me.I would have traded pick 1 for picks 3 and 21 in this year's draft.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Yeah nah, for the deal to be worth it you need Stoker to be a gun and to pluck a gun with your 1st round selection next year.Too many ifs and buts for me.I would have traded pick 1 for picks 3 and 21 in this year's draft.

Happy bringing in Walsh and Stocker this year and to use next years 1st in a trade for established talent

 

[Marcel Proust]

You're using this as evidence that bookies predictions are reliable?

Merely arguing its good as a rough guide. They correctly predicted 5/8 of the top 8 and 3/4 bottom, four taken from a flag odds bet table. The betting markets and last seasons win/lose and ladder positions are not a perfect guide but there isn't much else outside the loins of SOS and co.

The wooden spoon market for the following season isn't open yet as far as I can tell however the minor premiership odds which should be pretty similar (neds and 365) are as follows:

Fremantle 101
St Kilda 151
Carlton 501
Gold Coast 1001

I'm a bit shocked Carlton is so far behind Saint$ & Lion$. However, as you say having a midfield aged 20 on average is not ideal at AFL level in the short term. Even the suns might fancy not being bottom

Happy bringing in Walsh and Stocker this year and to use next years 1st in a trade for established talent

Adelaide fans are probably happy at the realistic prospect of finishing top 4 and yet getting a pick 1, 2 or 3.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

You're a troll that is unable to understand the task at hand he has had.

From bringing in elite youth to the club with squeezing value with every assets he had on the list that includes trading average players to Geelong for 1st round picks.

We couldnt make up minimum salary cap requirements so as SOS dumped overpaid bananas to Geelong for first round picks he bought in a bunch of other hacks on short term contracts (whom are all gone) for nothing to fill up salary cap space and list spots as Cripps, Curnow, Docherty Weritering etc get paid more and Murphy, Thomas, Kreuzer Simpson get paid less.

I don't understand why his intellect is an issue when you have displayed less.

I think SOS is very good at what he does. There's a reason we targeted him in our startup phase.

I struggle to get my head around this cant make the minimum TPP though. I do get you might take on a salary dump in return for something in trade. I also know we couldn't pay our allowed TPP in the first couple of years because we didn't have the money.

Why wouldn't you go to a good club servant explain the situation and throw a bonus at them though?

Contracts can be renegotiated and the payments manipulated into whatever year you want.

 

[Monkey King]

Yeah nah, for the deal to be worth it you need Stoker to be a gun and to pluck a gun with your 1st round selection next year.Too many ifs and buts for me.I would have traded pick 1 for picks 3 and 21 in this year's draft.

So if Stocker is a gun and the future first is a gun, Carlton win?

You’re not really adding much insight here.

 

[Monkey King]

I think SOS is very good at what he does. There's a reason we targeted him in our startup phase.

I struggle to get my head around this cant make the minimum TPP though. I do get you might take on a salary dump in return for something in trade.

As I understand it, most salary dumps were used as trade currency, basically trading space in Carlton’s cap for lack of space in GWS’. The payoff being trades of targeted players were discounted.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Why are we discussing winners and losers from this trade? Why does there need to be such categories? Carlton wanted a player this year they thought could improve their list and will still retain a 1st round pick next year. Adelaide get a top 4 pick. Both teams no matter what happens in 2019 will be upset by this trade.

 

[Shaz2012]

I think Riewoldt and Lynch are a bit better than Walker and Jenkins , Tex needs to give up the captaincy to Sloane and Fogerty has to improve.Richmond now have the the 2 best tall forwards in the league and we traded pick nothing for Lynch, which was a nice price.

So your saying you liked our structures so much you want to copy them. Interesting considering other clubs were starting to emulate yours.

In all seriousness, we all know you don’t turn down the chance to get Lynch for nothing. Just pointing out that what has set you apart for the last 2 years is that small pressure oriented forward line. Lynch will take you away from that for better or worse. Be interesting to see your new game style.

 

[Bearded Clam]

I think Riewoldt and Lynch are a bit better than Walker and Jenkins , Tex needs to give up the captaincy to Sloane and Fogerty has to improve.Richmond now have the the 2 best tall forwards in the league and we traded pick nothing for Lynch, which was a nice price.

Not disagreeing with you but to this point lynch and Riewoldt have never played together... what if they don’t gel?... what if they spend a season tripping over each other and getting in each other’s way?.. stranger things have happened...

 

[La Dispute]

As I understand it, most salary dumps were used as trade currency, basically trading space in Carlton’s cap for lack of space in GWS’. The payoff being trades of targeted players were discounted.

That’s a good way of putting it and you can see the benefit.

Basically to reach the TPP we paid a heap of C-graders the salary of B-graders, and once these guys depart the list (or just prior) the remaining funds are used on pay increases for our young players.

Also another good reason for taking on these salary cap dumps.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Not disagreeing with you but to this point lynch and Riewoldt have never played together... what if they don’t gel?... what if they spend a season tripping over each other and getting in each other’s way?.. stranger things have happened...

Could be worse

So your saying you liked our structures so much you want to copy them. Interesting considering other clubs were starting to emulate yours.

In all seriousness, we all know you don’t turn down the chance to get Lynch for nothing. Just pointing out that what has set you apart for the last 2 years is that small pressure oriented forward line. Lynch will take you away from that for better or worse. Be interesting to see your new game style.

WCE forgot to copy and won the flag

 

[Malifice]

Adelaide fans are probably happy at the realistic prospect of finishing top 4 and yet getting a pick 1, 2 or 3.

Good on them.

And we're equally happy to get Stocker (who we rated at 6) in a year early, for the price of sliding our future 1st rounder down the order to wherever Adelaide finish in the 1st round.

We're trading it out anyway most likely, and wont be using it at the draft, so who cares?