List Mgmt. List Management 2022

[Blue__Balls]

Trade TDK for a late first round pick. He is an okay ruckman and an okay forward. Right now the league has an inflated view of his ability and we could cash in. If we can turn that first round pick into someone with speed and skill would be a great outcome.

We're already a bit lean in the ruck department, so while (academically) I can see merit in offloading a player with an overhyped market value, we'd be left in a position where we'd need to invest pretty significantly in the recruitment of a ready-made ruckman to replace him.

There are more efficient methods of securing a decent first round pick.

 

[DangerousD]

Yeah, wouldn't mind a couple of high impact types, particularly those who can play in the forward half of the ground. Bonus points for players with real aggression.

AFL Draft Power Rankings: Son-of-a-gun back on top of the class

ESPN.com.au's draft expert Chris Doerre has revealed his AFL Draft Power Rankings for the month of August, with Will Ashcroft once again topping the class after his head-turning efforts in the NAB League.

www.espn.com.au

Give me two of:

Jhye Clark
Cameron Mackenzie
Mitch Szybkowski
Brayden George
Bailey Humphrey
Oliver Hollands

Tell you what....Casey Voss sounds like he's making a serious case to be picked early too. When was the last time a senior coach coached their own son? Not really a need for us as a general defender, but if we took a ruthless approach with a few guys like Marchy, Gov or Plow then maybe it would be viable.

Then trade a late pick for Sholl, and look for some break glass talls with late or rookie picks.

Hayes, Hollands and George all sound like players of need, if we want two of them we need to trade, I’d be very happy to trade our future first to get more good kids in.

The mention of Voss on this list and if he ends up being drafted in the first or second round would be a slap in the face to all clubs recruiters, he was there for everyone mid season, with most clubs looking at players overlooked in the draft and no one was interested, good on him if he does.

I still think we need to improve our best 22 for next year though, there will be a sale on players from Brisbane, GWS and Hawks come seasons end, I hope we can get someone to improve the side.

 

[DangerousD]

Oh wow, you're a brave man to suggest this.

I criticized Russell earlier in the year and I was almost chased out of the joint.

Apparently we've been in a heavy training load all year to make up for the lack of fitness the past few years, pushing players to their absolute limit hence the injuries - particularly the stress fractures and back injuries. Theoretically, sounds like a great idea, but * me, surely winning as much as possible is the priority by now.

I’ve never understood the logic of the heavy training load to make up for lack of fitness.

Russel has been here for a few years, any lack of fitness is down to him.

I think the heavy loads talk is a cop out.

 

[FRUMPY]

I’ve never understood the logic of the heavy training load to make up for lack of fitness.

Russel has been here for a few years, any lack of fitness is down to him.

I think the heavy loads talk is a cop out.

heavy training loads are usually done by clubs who are gurateed a finals spot - if its true and we did a loading program, then me thinks they thought they were a shoe-in to play finals.....it would be very carlton like

 

[Doro]

Trade TDK for a late first round pick. He is an okay ruckman and an okay forward. Right now the league has an inflated view of his ability and we could cash in. If we can turn that first round pick into someone with speed and skill would be a great outcome.

He's developed really well this year, carried the number one ruck load mostly on his own. Needs more strength for the wrestling at throw ins, which I'm sure he's aware of. More work with the ruck coaches over the next pre season. Silly to let him go by choice.

 

[chunkylover53]

heavy training loads are usually done by clubs who are gurateed a finals spot - if its true and we did a loading program, then me thinks they thought they were a shoe-in to play finals.....it would be very carlton like

If I'm reading between the lines from a few posters here, it's been going on all year, rather than a loading program specifically for finals. A very long-term view in mind to account for the lack of fitness under Teague.

I didn't buy it initially, but we're certainly playing fatigued and frustrated, so maybe it's true. Still a weird approach, bit hard to stay fit when you just end up getting injured.

 

[Sector 7G]

I think a real problem is up forward we only have 2 players who are likely to kick more than 2 goals at some stage during the season. We are just not dangerous across the board up forward with guys who can kick goals.

 

[chunkylover53]

Yep. Reading between lines Voss and Russell are on a path to dramatically improve the conditioning of the group. I would not be at all surprised if the likes of Kemp, Stocker, Dow, Honey, Marchbank, Philp, Motlop, Carroll. Mirkov and Akuei, as well as a couple of more senior players, even senior regulars are on heavy loads and not getting much “taper” for game day at the moment.

This is likely to produce some niggling injuries as well as impressions of poor endurance. We are on the right trajectory and I have the impression we will see a tangible improvement over the off season.

We are not without prospects this year, despite the doomsayers reappearing at every opportunity to lay in the boots. We were outplayed last night. Yet, considering, with a little straighter kicking and/or the absence of a couple of umpiring howlers we absolutely have the right to feel “unlucky”..

Is this strategy still on track do you think?

Probably bottle it and miss the finals, but I guess we will be fit for next year?

 

[ctwenty1]

If I'm reading between the lines from a few posters here, it's been going on all year, rather than a loading program specifically for finals. A very long-term view in mind to account for the lack of fitness under Teague.

I didn't buy it initially, but we're certainly playing fatigued and frustrated, so maybe it's true. Still a weird approach, bit hard to stay fit when you just end up getting injured.

Builds resilience and exposes those who aren’t resilient

 

[chunkylover53]

Builds resilience and exposes those who aren’t resilient

We should hook them up with collective minds too I reckon.

 

[FRUMPY]

If I'm reading between the lines from a few posters here, it's been going on all year, rather than a loading program specifically for finals. A very long-term view in mind to account for the lack of fitness under Teague.

I didn't buy it initially, but we're certainly playing fatigued and frustrated, so maybe it's true. Still a weird approach, bit hard to stay fit when you just end up getting injured.

sounds like rubbish - why did we headhunt Russell if teague is going to tell him how much to train the players? then again, this is carlton...

 

[Coops93]

Trade TDK for a late first round pick. He is an okay ruckman and an okay forward. Right now the league has an inflated view of his ability and we could cash in. If we can turn that first round pick into someone with speed and skill would be a great outcome.

Agree with the bolded, though I'd say worse than an ok forward. I don't think he's a forwards you know what.

Though I only agree with it for how he is right now and definitely disagree with the sentiment we should trade him. I think he has great potential going forward and still is our next ruckman. Right now he's still raw but shows glimpses every now and then of what he can be. His body still needs, to be fair, probably 2 off-seasons to grow into. He's still a bit of a kid going against men in the ruck but once he matures I think he's an elite prospective ruckman.

Not sure about about his forward work. That sentiment imo still stems from his draft report suggesting he's a ruck/fwd and the fact we play him forward, but in terms of output and watching play he's not a forward by any stretch. It looks like he has no idea what he's doing inside 50.

 

[Coops93]

Maybe Luke Shuey.

Though not sure either make our midfield at 32 years old.

Luke Breust fills a positional need but is less of a traditional leader. Could teach the small forwards a few things though.

I've considered Breust myself a few times, Gunston too.

Despite being old they're both very natural forwards and know what positions to get to. Even if their overall influence dwindles I think they'll still always be able to impact the scoreboard, ala Eddie Betts with us. Sure it seemed his overall impact on games dropped but his last season with us he had 27 goals with 13 assists in 19 games - 40 goals total with direct involvement, more than 2 a game.

At the moment in our forwardline I'd be happy with that sort of output.

 

[Blue__Balls]

I think a real problem is up forward we only have 2 players who are likely to kick more than 2 goals at some stage during the season. We are just not dangerous across the board up forward with guys who can kick goals.

Two gun key forwards - 61 and 40 goals from them respectively.

Beyond that...

Cripps with 20.
Fisher with 17.
JSOS with 16.
Durdin with 14.

Cupboard feels a bit bare. Our third most prolific goal kicker is our premium inside mid.

Now that being said, while we have "only" 4 players averaging 1+ goal a game - ladder leaders Geelong only have 5. And while they have Stengle chipping in closer to two goals a game, we've got a handful more players in the "almost one a game" bracket, while they have a drop from "goal a game" to "goal every other game". And when you look at the Top 10 for each club, the total is almost identical (12.21 goals a game for us, 12.28 goals for them).






I don't think we're in a terrible spot as far as goalkickers are concerned, but you're spot on that it would be nice to have a third option in there - someone who might only go at a goal a game most of the time, but who has that potential to have a day out and kick 4+ goals.

 

[Stamos]

I don't think we're in a terrible spot as far as goalkickers are concerned, but you're spot on that it would be nice to have a third option in there - someone who might only go at a goal a game most of the time, but who has that potential to have a day out and kick 4+ goals.

It's Martin, except he's broken.
Honey is the other one.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

I've considered Breust myself a few times, Gunston too.

Despite being old they're both very natural forwards and know what positions to get to. Even if their overall influence dwindles I think they'll still always be able to impact the scoreboard, ala Eddie Betts with us. Sure it seemed his overall impact on games dropped but his last season with us he had 27 goals with 13 assists in 19 games - 40 goals total with direct involvement, more than 2 a game.

At the moment in our forwardline I'd be happy with that sort of output.

I think Breust is a fairly low risk option. He has slowed down and is not athletically what he was but he is still impacting games and putting scores on the board.

Would teach Motlop and Durdin plenty whilst also taking the best back pocket, and a heck of a lot more reliable than Jack Martin week to week. Get it done.

 

[Sector 7G]

Two gun key forwards - 61 and 40 goals from them respectively.

Beyond that...

Cripps with 20.
Fisher with 17.
JSOS with 16.
Durdin with 14.

Cupboard feels a bit bare. Our third most prolific goal kicker is our premium inside mid.

Now that being said, while we have "only" 4 players averaging 1+ goal a game - ladder leaders Geelong only have 5. And while they have Stengle chipping in closer to two goals a game, we've got a handful more players in the "almost one a game" bracket, while they have a drop from "goal a game" to "goal every other game". And when you look at the Top 10 for each club, the total is almost identical (12.21 goals a game for us, 12.28 goals for them).

View attachment 1470312

View attachment 1470315


I don't think we're in a terrible spot as far as goalkickers are concerned, but you're spot on that it would be nice to have a third option in there - someone who might only go at a goal a game most of the time, but who has that potential to have a day out and kick 4+ goals.

Take the Pies -How many players have kicked 4 in a game for the year
Degoey,
Elliot
Mihocek
Johnson
Ginnivan

IF CC or H don't have a good game who else is going to kick them. Where as someone normally pops up for the pies and kick a few

 

[Garters]

Fischer McAsey

3

Fischer Mcasey

Age

23

Ht

196cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

6.8

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

3.5

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.3

3star

MG

102.3

2star

D

6.8

1star

K

3.3

1star

HB

3.5

2star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.3

2star

MG

102.3

2star

D

7.2

2star

K

3.6

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.6

4star

MG

114.8

2star

was apparently in the cross hairs on the trip to Adelaide. Would get him for a pack of chips, looks more Joshe Schachie than no 6 draft potential that is about explode but havent seen a great deal. Take him and Scholl to assist with defensive and wing stocks then hit the draft for speed, speed and some pace.

 

[Blue__Balls]

It's Martin, except he's broken.
Honey is the other one.

Perhaps.

Last time Martin kicked more than 2 goals was Round 1, 2020. (Edit: Actually Round 2, 2021, kicked 3 goals then - so he's kicked more than 2 goals on two occasions in the last three seasons).

Honey has only had 3+ goals twice at VFL level in the last 2 years. Has kicked 1 goal from his four senior outings this year, and that was a freebie after an opposition player dropped an uncontested chest mark in the goal square. Young though, and has been hampered by injury, so maybe he is the one moving forward.

Would be very interested in drafting an athletic medium who can actually do what we wanted Martin to do.

For that reason, Brayden George is really appealing to me in the draft. From the reports I've seen, he seems to tick all the boxes for the type of player we need to add to our forward mix. Would have to think he could come in and play from day one as well.

 

[sweethoney]

Perhaps.

Last time Martin kicked more than 2 goals was Round 1, 2020.

Honey has only had 3+ goals twice at VFL level in the last 2 years. Has kicked 1 goal from his four senior outings this year, and that was a freebie after an opposition player dropped an uncontested chest mark in the goal square. Young though, and has been hampered by injury, so maybe he is the one moving forward.

Would be very interested in drafting an athletic medium who can actually do what we wanted Martin to do.

For that reason, Brayden George is really appealing to me in the draft. From the reports I've seen, he seems to tick all the boxes for the type of player we need to add to our forward mix. Would have to think he could come in and play from day one as well.

Martin kicked 2 goals in the first quarter against port this year

 

[Blue__Balls]

Martin kicked 2 goals in the first quarter against port this year

Think you missed the words "more than"

 

[reubsblues]

I think Breust is a fairly low risk option. He has slowed down and is not athletically what he was but he is still impacting games and putting scores on the board.

Would teach Motlop and Durdin plenty whilst also taking the best back pocket, and a heck of a lot more reliable than Jack Martin week to week. Get it done.

Agree he would love being in a forward line along side Curnow and McKay

 

[sweethoney]

Did you miss the words "more than"?

I did miss a word! My apologies

 

[reubsblues]

I think we have alot a deficiency all over the ground
Small lock down defenders, if you look who kicks all the goals against us over the last few yrd and its always the small to medium forwards
A midfielder with break away speed and elite kick
A quality big body ruckman ie Witts
Tdk is still developing and i just think Pittonet lacks the footy smarts is a backup ruckman at best
And while we have some potential small medium forwards in Durdin motlop honey and Martin and think we could use another more consistent one ie papley
I just hope voss and the list management are aggressive in the off season
We are so close to being a premiership side and the core talent is there but i just dont think we can with the list we have right now
To many similar players and to many injury proned players

 

[Coops93]

Two gun key forwards - 61 and 40 goals from them respectively.

Beyond that...

Cripps with 20.
Fisher with 17.
JSOS with 16.
Durdin with 14.

Cupboard feels a bit bare. Our third most prolific goal kicker is our premium inside mid.

Now that being said, while we have "only" 4 players averaging 1+ goal a game - ladder leaders Geelong only have 5. And while they have Stengle chipping in closer to two goals a game, we've got a handful more players in the "almost one a game" bracket, while they have a drop from "goal a game" to "goal every other game". And when you look at the Top 10 for each club, the total is almost identical (12.21 goals a game for us, 12.28 goals for them).

View attachment 1470312

View attachment 1470315


I don't think we're in a terrible spot as far as goalkickers are concerned, but you're spot on that it would be nice to have a third option in there - someone who might only go at a goal a game most of the time, but who has that potential to have a day out and kick 4+ goals.

I've made this point a handful of times in post game threads, but I'll perhaps go into a bit more detail here (and probably will a time or 2 in post-season as well )

We really lack natural goal kickers, even inside 50. Aside from Charlie and H inside 50 we don't have many natural scorers, they're all makeshift/workmanlike to a degree. I think Motlop has the potential and probably has the natural goal sense but being his first year he's not been able to truly show it.

Then there's the midfield, again lots of workmanlike types and not a lot of natural talents and talents who know where the soft spots are inside 50 or where the goal posts are. Fisher is probably our best inside 50 kick and is great at finding them at times but aside from that there's a lot of agricultural attacking kickers. Even though Cripps has worked immensely hard to become a goal kicker - and full credit to him it's a great effort - it's still clearly not a natural ability.

Listing the players (leaving off half backmen):

Spoiler: Forwards (a few can roll through midfield)

Jack Silvagni (ruck) - Used to be a fairly good natural inside 50 player who found space and leads, but since going into the ruck that's probably left his game a bit.
Jessie Motlop - Yes, however is only a first year player.
Lachie Fogarty - If he's inside 30 metres then maybe.
McKay - Coleman medallist, elite. Perhaps not in great form right now.
Corey Durdin - Mid come small forward who applies great pressure but I don't think has a great feel for the forward 50 offensively.
Jack Martin - Has it, but doesn't get anywhere near enough of it to be a consistent threat.
Zac Fisher (attacking mid/fwd, listed here) - Great distributer inside around 70-60m, finds soft spots and targets. As for kicking goals, can do it but not consistent.
David Cuningham (similar to fish, attacking mid) - Like a few others, has goal sense but doesn't get anywhere near enough of it. Also can't get fit.
Charlie Curnow - Yes, leading the Coleman. Insane goal sense, can score anywhere off 1 step inside 60m.
Josh Honey - Not sure about natural goal sense but has explosive attributes and wouldn't be surprised if it develops.
Matt Owies - No, similar to Durdin in a way in that he's a great pressure player but isn't a natural goal scorer.

Spoiler: Mids/Rucks

Paddy Dow - Has some goal sense but unfortunately other things hold his game back and can't get in the team.
Adam Cerra - No
Matthew Kennedy - No. Can kick a goal as a marking playing inside 50 but isn't a consistent threat.
Cripps - Not natural, has worked into his game but isn't a constant threat.
De Koning - I don't believe he's a forward. Has a reputation he can play forward but output says otherwise.
Sam Walsh - Seemed to develop it in patches last year but has completely disappeared this year.
Marc Pittonet - No. Out out and ruck.
George Hewett - No.

Spoiler: Wings

Lochie O'Brien- No
Jack Carroll - I think he has some, but the game looked fast for him in his taste this year. One to watch going forward.
Jack Newnes - Not really but can bob up from the wing from time to time.
Sam Philp - No.
Jordan Boyd - Doesn't seem to from the wing.
Will Hayes - VFL stats indicate he's good for a goal a game from the wing/mid but hasn't done it at AFL level.
Will Setterfield - lol, no.
Matt Cottrell - Can bob up and find soft spots inside 50 for a mark and kicks goals that way. Not great in general player and don't know about his goal sense but he has a good feel for space inside 50 and kicking goals by finding marks that way.

Not many natural scorers or creative types going inside 50.