List Mgmt. List Management 2022

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I think we have alot a deficiency all over the ground
Small lock down defenders, if you look who kicks all the goals against us over the last few yrd and its always the small to medium forwards
A midfielder with break away speed and elite kick
A quality big body ruckman ie Witts
Tdk is still developing and i just think Pittonet lacks the footy smarts is a backup ruckman at best
And while we have some potential small medium forwards in Durdin motlop honey and Martin and think we could use another more consistent one ie papley
I just hope voss and the list management are aggressive in the off season
We are so close to being a premiership side and the core talent is there but i just dont think we can with the list we have right now
To many similar players and to many injury proned players
List management never has an end date, we are constantly building, refreshing and developing. We absolutely do have a number of issues in need of addressing, some more urgently than others. The answers and solutions are often not about changing playing personnel, but coaching and development issues along with creatively redeploying players in alternate roles.

We have had a progression of coaches determined to pigeon hole players in roles. Very few are tried, let alone redeployed in alternate roles. Is it simply a coaching issue, or is it due to a tendency to draft and/or recruit one dimensional players? There was a report quoting Andrew Russell as stating our only hybrid player at the time was David Cuningham.

I often shudder when Arr0w and others spruik draft best available and trade for needs. Maybe I am wrong, but I don’t think so. Trading for “needs” has left us with a handful of inflated contracts for players not performing optimally who actually hinder development of our youth by tying up positions on the park. We are now in a position that we are compelled to go to the draft to fill positions of need, we have little other option, with the salary cap tight and getting tighter.

We need to add run and quality distribution quality and quantity, as well as add to our key position players. They are non-negotiables, then we could do with adding some different firepower up forward. While it is a decent draft and I believe I can pinpoint some nice, bankable options, we will be up against it trying to fill all of the gaps.

The list of draft combine invitees published today is intriguing, as much by some omissions as to who is actually on it.
 
Not a fan.

Nothing wrong with Kemp, club just needs to settle on a position for him, give him a big preseason and then lock him into a role for all of 2023. Continuity will see improvement.

Not ready to give up on Stocker. If we're offloading Dow (which looks more likely after the weekend's performance) then I'd like to see Stocker move into a midfield role in the reserves, and provide injury cover in 2023 for Cripps, Hewett, Kennedy and Cerra, and challenge him to overthrow Kennedy by year's end.

Assuming we sneak into the 8 and then lose, we'll have something like Picks 11, 29, 61 and 65.
Add Pick 37 as Jones Compo (we hope).
Flick Dow to Geelong for Pick 50 or 54.

Send 29, 37, 61 and 65 to Brissy for Pick 14.
Send 50 to Adelaide for Sholl.
Head to the draft with 11 and 14. If the opportunity presents, maybe even package them up if it gets us Sheezel or Tsatas, otherwise take a tall and a speedy mid/forward who can kick.
Truthfully… Would do whatever we could to get Brisbanes first and Sydney’s pick 15 or 16…

I was board, had no appointments at work this morning and thought I’d see what we could get…

It was total fanciful, but not out of the realms of possible…

Appreciate your reply, with discussion… instead of just laughing at my post offering nothing…
 
Truthfully… Would do whatever we could to get Brisbanes first and Sydney’s pick 15 or 16…

I was board, had no appointments at work this morning and thought I’d see what we could get…

It was total fanciful, but not out of the realms of possible…

Appreciate your reply, with discussion… instead of just laughing at my post offering nothing…

All good. Pretty telling that we're still in the 8 but my thoughts have now turned to the off season :p

Whether we make the finals or not, it's pretty clear that our early season confidence and momentum is gone, so I'm not gonna get too invested in the results from here on out, and any win will be considered a pleasant bonus.

This draft does look like it has a bit of what we need, which is good. Quite a few decent talls and a number of exciting mid/forwards with good skills. Not really seeing any prime wing candidates, so happy to take the punt on Sholl and some continued development of others.

I do think we need to be very selective about who we offload though. Happy to get rid of the perpetually injured (though keeping one or two high ceiling types doesn't bother me), happy to get rid of the talented guys who just don't fight for it, but would rather keep the ones who give a shit and have AFL skills (ie. Kemp and Stocker) and focus on finding the best position for them.
 

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All good. Pretty telling that we're still in the 8 but my thoughts have now turned to the off season :p

Whether we make the finals or not, it's pretty clear that our early season confidence and momentum is gone, so I'm not gonna get too invested in the results from here on out, and any win will be considered a pleasant bonus.

This draft does look like it has a bit of what we need, which is good. Quite a few decent talls and a number of exciting mid/forwards with good skills. Not really seeing any prime wing candidates, so happy to take the punt on Sholl and some continued development of others.

I do think we need to be very selective about who we offload though. Happy to get rid of the perpetually injured (though keeping one or two high ceiling types doesn't bother me), happy to get rid of the talented guys who just don't fight for it, but would rather keep the ones who give a s**t and have AFL skills (ie. Kemp and Stocker) and focus on finding the best position for them.

It was good to see Lucas Camporeale named on the wing in the All Australian U/16 side this week. Hopefully he replicates the efforts of his old man and adds value to a seasoned side and plays a role in seizing the premiership cup in his first year.


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It was good to see Lucas Camporeale named on the wing in the All Australian U/16 side this week. Hopefully he replicates the efforts of his old man and adds value to a seasoned side and plays a role in seizing the premiership cup in his first year.


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Got my fingers crossed thhat Lucas continues to develop nicely, do you know how his brother footy standard ?
 
Got my fingers crossed thhat Lucas continues to develop nicely, do you know how his brother footy standard ?

I’ve never seen them play but Ben seems to be performing pretty well for Glenelg U/16s, averaging 23 touches a game with a 91% disposal efficiency. I suspect he plays a little more half back than Lucas, who seems to win a few more clearances and have shots at goal at this stage.


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Maybe we should make a play for Grundy. Wouldn't surprise if the Pies tried to offload his mega contract...and may pay some of his salary for a couple of years.

A prime Grundy would be an unbelievable addition. Not sure how we’d make the salary cap work long term though.


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Perhaps.

Last time Martin kicked more than 2 goals was Round 1, 2020. (Edit: Actually Round 2, 2021, kicked 3 goals then - so he's kicked more than 2 goals on two occasions in the last three seasons).

Honey has only had 3+ goals twice at VFL level in the last 2 years. Has kicked 1 goal from his four senior outings this year, and that was a freebie after an opposition player dropped an uncontested chest mark in the goal square. Young though, and has been hampered by injury, so maybe he is the one moving forward.

Would be very interested in drafting an athletic medium who can actually do what we wanted Martin to do.

For that reason, Brayden George is really appealing to me in the draft. From the reports I've seen, he seems to tick all the boxes for the type of player we need to add to our forward mix. Would have to think he could come in and play from day one as well.

Really like the look of George, could seriously push into the middle later on and become the next Petracca...

Also like the look of
Keller (KPF/R)
Hollands (Wing/Mid)
Hotton (Forward/Mid)

Would love to get get some more first rounders in this draft and pick up 2-3 of them...

Still like some OOC players also

FA
Gardiner (KPD) - Super completive defender

OOC
Rioli (SF) - Willie would fit right into our forward line next to Motlop and Durdin
Aish (Everywhere) - Aish is an under rated player who can play anywhere on the ground including wing, would be an upgrade on any of our wingers...

Trade
Bergman
 
T
I’ve never seen them play but Ben seems to be performing pretty well for Glenelg U/16s, averaging 23 touches a game with a 91% disposal efficiency. I suspect he plays a little more half back than Lucas, who seems to win a few more clearances and have shots at goal at this stage.


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Thanks appreciate the insight, looks like we’ve got 2 good players for FS oat last.
 
What has happened.
They tell me it's the coach, then Bolton is gone.
They again tell me it's the coach, then Teague is gone.
What excuse is coming out of our club next?
Our leaders have no successful back ground, they can talk the talk but actually can't walk the walk.
Maybe we need to follow a proven model. Hodge to Brisbane, Lewis to Melbourne, improvement has followed for both clubs
Anyone with success that will lift expectation requirements within the playing group is needed big time,
Hopefully the list management crew have an eye on this, or at least it comes up in conversation.

The issue is success in the AFL right now is based on an excellent game plan and a medium to good list. The shift is significant from the past of building a list of good players Only.

Voss gave us a good start on transition strategy but it has been worked out and he hasn’t got a second lever right now. The layers didn’t come and the players are out on their feet after a strategy of going hard early in the season to win respect.

Still been a very good season for us.
 

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We clearly need more kids (and learn to develop them) from the draft rather than go the recycled player well (granted Hewett has been a gem)

I would take a dump, wrap it in tin foil, microwave it and then eat my 💩 if we traded for Grundy.

We need to stop being so obsessed with topping up with experienced players from other clubs, back our own culture and player development and keep drafting kids, even it it means we don't play finals for another couple of years

Our list cannot win a flag in the next 5 years based on its current trajectory and talent levels..

Stocker won't make it, Dow clearly won't, Setterfield and Newnes honest toilers
Would give Cottrell a new contract cause he tries his heart out and strives to improve, but those other players I mentioned i think are slackers and need to go.

Only organic path to improvement to growth and progress is through the national draft. Capish ??
 
Our list cannot win a flag in the next 5 years based on its current trajectory and talent levels..
Sorry, but I don't agree with this. I don't believe there's any logic to the statement at all.

It's been a very disappointing back end to the season but for most of the year we've been within touching distance of the top 4.

It's all doom and gloom for some at the moment - and people have every right to be disappointed - but we're not that far away.

This group absolutely can contend for a flag, as soon as next year.
 
Sorry, but I don't agree with this. I don't believe there's any logic to the statement at all.

It's been a very disappointing back end to the season but for most of the year we've been within touching distance of the top 4.

It's all doom and gloom for some at the moment - and people have every right to be disappointed - but we're not that far away.

This group absolutely can contend for a flag, as soon as next year.
This. I don’t look at any list and think we are out classed by much. Every team has their weaknesses.
 
This. I don’t look at any list and think we are out classed by much. Every team has their weaknesses.

Our list/bottom 6 simply does not bat deep enough, I think we can certainly finals next year, but we simply do not have enough flashy midfield (esp talented outside accumulatin types) or wingman and small defensive types to mount a legit premiership threat next season.

It's all well and good to win the contested possession stat like we do most weeks, but we have not got enough polished users of the footy by hand or foot as it stands to make a legit flag push.

Our bottom 6 does not really lack for trying/effort imo, just disposal skill/polish and decision making.

God Willing, Carroll and Kemp will fill those needs for us eventually, but we need more, especially ready to go kids who don't STB when under intense opposition pressure (easier said than done)
 
Really like the look of George, could seriously push into the middle later on and become the next Petracca...

Also like the look of
Keller (KPF/R)
Hollands (Wing/Mid)
Hotton (Forward/Mid)

Would love to get get some more first rounders in this draft and pick up 2-3 of them...

Still like some OOC players also

FA
Gardiner (KPD) - Super completive defender

OOC
Rioli (SF) - Willie would fit right into our forward line next to Motlop and Durdin
Aish (Everywhere) - Aish is an under rated player who can play anywhere on the ground including wing, would be an upgrade on any of our wingers...

Trade
Bergman
Interested in you nominating Bergman. Is he really gettable? Who does he project to be like, i honestly dont know.
 
Sorry, but I don't agree with this. I don't believe there's any logic to the statement at all.

It's been a very disappointing back end to the season but for most of the year we've been within touching distance of the top 4.

It's all doom and gloom for some at the moment - and people have every right to be disappointed - but we're not that far away.

This group absolutely can contend for a flag, as soon as next year.

Next year it's time for the younger players, to actually take the next step and take a spot or at least show they can actually make it at the level...

Players that have stepped up this year...Motlop, O'Brien, Cottrell & Durdin
Players we know what we get and need to replace...Dow, Setterfield, Plowman, Martin, Fisher, Owies & Newnes
Players who need to step up and take their spots or face being delisted or traded...Stocker, Kemp, Carroll, Cuningham, Philp, Honey & Boyd
Players that it's probably to late...Fogarty, Parks, Dow, Setterfield & Hayes
 
Next year it's time for the younger players, to actually take the next step and take a spot or at least show they can actually make it at the level...

Players that have stepped up this year...Motlop, O'Brien, Cottrell & Durdin
Players we know what we get and need to replace...Dow, Setterfield, Plowman, Martin, Fisher, Owies & Newnes
Players who need to step up and take their spots or face being delisted or traded...Stocker, Kemp, Carroll, Cuningham, Philp, Honey & Boyd
Players that it's probably to late...Fogarty, Parks, Dow, Setterfield & Hayes
In what universe does Fisher need to be replaced? Has arguably been our most improved player this year
 
Our list/bottom 6 simply does not bat deep enough, I think we can certainly finals next year, but we simply do not have enough flashy midfield (esp talented outside accumulatin types) or wingman and small defensive types to mount a legit premiership threat next season.

It's all well and good to win the contested possession stat like we do most weeks, but we have not got enough polished users of the footy by hand or foot as it stands to make a legit flag push.

Our bottom 6 does not really lack for trying/effort imo, just disposal skill/polish and decision making.

God Willing, Carroll and Kemp will fill those needs for us eventually, but we need more, especially ready to go kids who don't STB when under intense opposition pressure (easier said than done)

As an exercise go and look at Richmond’s list that won 3 premierships and let me know how many of their players are the flashy types that we don’t have. I remember at the start of 2017 or end of 16 speaking to a Richmond friend saying they were close to a rebuild.

I still look at their list and wonder how they won 3 premierships.

Also have a look at the GWS list that lost the prelim to the Dogs, the prelim to the Tigers and the GF to the Tigs, it was overflowing with top end talent, where did it get them?
 
It's a quiet day at work :grinv1:

If we are going to be quiet in trade period...
Maybe we could better our draft hand...

Compo
Bulldogs Jones > Carlton Pick 37 (Start 3rd round)

Trade
West Coast Kemp > Carlton Pick 20
North Dow > Carlton Pick 55
Richmond Stocker > Carlton Pick 19

Swap
Sydney 2023 First round pick > Carlton Pick 15
Brisbane Pick 20(WCE), 30, 37(Jones), 55(North), 61 & 65 (2446 Points = Ashcroft) > Carlton Pick 14 & 32 (1745 points)

Out
Kemp, Stocker, Dow, 2023 First Round Pick and Picks 30, 61 & 65

In
Picks 14, 15, 19 & 32

Pick 12 - Isaac Keeler (KPF/Ruck)
Pick 14 - Oliver Hollands (Wing) (want to BID: Jaspa Fletcher (Matched Brisbane) - but would be rude after trading picks with them)
Pick 15 - Brayden George (Mid/Forward)
Pick 19 - Oli Hotton (Mid/Forward)
Pick 32 - Lewis Hayes (KPD) (stretch)

I wouldn’t get be getting rid of Kemp until we actually decide where we are going to play him and give him a chance to establish himself in that role.

I agree with the rest of what you’ve suggested however.
 
In what universe does Fisher need to be replaced? Has arguably been our most improved player this year

Agreed I was a huge critic of his coming into this season but he’s certainly one who has improved a lot this year.

He still has his weaknesses but I’m glad we renewed his contract as I think he has shown enough to show he is a player.
 
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