List Mgmt. List Management 2022

[Garters]

Even if he's happy to renegotiate, we can't.
We took him as a Free Agent. It's locked in.

You learn something everyday. Didn't realise that's the case for free agency. Guess it makes sense given comp picks, salary dumps etc.

 

[The Return of the Paf]

Given where our list sits, there is no point delisting serviceable players to use pick 80 in the draft. I wouldn't be surprised if we only make 4-5 cuts.
Jones, Fog, EC, Parks, McD

There comes a time when 'serviceable' won't be enough and we have to risk coming up with nothing in an attempt to find something better. You're stated approach has held us back in the past, IMO. I count five who we wouldn't miss at this stage, not counting the two rookies we've just drafted or Jones, and Parks isn't even one of them.

 

[Sector 7G]

There comes a time when 'serviceable' won't be enough and we have to risk coming up with nothing in an attempt to find something better. You're stated approach has held us back in the past, IMO. I count five who we wouldn't miss at this stage, not counting who we've just drafted or Jones, and Parks isn't even one of them.

Can't have 30 superstars on a list. All premiership teams have serviceable players.

 

[Jeremias]

He would be one we could look at for the wing position though. The comparison on the list currently is LOB, who himself is hardly a paragon of physicality.

In which case I'd still tread very carefully. I don't see him as a noteworthy long term footballer at AFL level anywhere other than behind the ball.

Reckon Lukosius' field kicking is probably consistently better (while LOB is good for a few absolute bullets a game, he has his share of ordinary kicks too), better decision-making in the context of his disposal, and he's tall enough that he's at least a little more capable of contesting an aerial ball. Has a good tank, maybe not quite as good as LOB. Work rate would be the main point in LOB's favour, but perhaps the issue there for Luko is related to environment/culture/coaching and we can bridge the gap a little.

Luko is definitely the better kick, no arguments there. He'd be in the top few kicks in the game. LOB is good but not at that level.

I'd have LOB ahead in most other categories, and it's not as though I think LOB is a world beater by any stretch.

Think GC have tried Lukosius forward and back, and found him a bit lacking at both ends. Maybe asking him to hold width from a contest, spread hard on the switch of play, and be fed the ball by a dominant midfield brings out the best of his abilities. Having him taking the inboard kick from the wing, or delivering inside 50 to Harry and Charlie....

Cost would be the major factor I suppose.

I reckon he was excellent down back, to the point where I have absolutely no idea why they actually moved him forward this year. It was the wrong move.

Having someone who can kick like he can is a real weapon, particularly coming out of the back half where he can pinpoint passes and change angles accurately and aggressively.

Moving him forward was bewildering. He's not quick enough to separate from an opponent. He doesn't work hard enough to offer repeat leads. He's certainly not strong enough to outmuscle an opponent. So what exactly does he offer them as a forward?

I'd take him on the cheap for sure but the reality is that won't happen. He'll cost a fair bit in terms of salary and trade capital. We can find many better options in both cases.

 

[The Bighouse]

You learn something everyday. Didn't realise that's the case for free agency. Guess it makes sense given comp picks, salary dumps etc.

Buddy rule from a jilted AFL.

 

[Stamos]

Buddy rule from a jilted AFL.

Yeah. It's fair enough though.
A club can't match a contract. A club gets compo due to the contract. etc.

 

[Red Bull]

Martin reported to have pinged his calf again.
Club really has to take an unemotional look at our injury list.
We just won’t get to where we want to with the list constantly in double figures …

 

[Ash24]

Martin reported to have pinged his calf again.
Club really has to take an unemotional look at our injury list.
We just won’t get to where we want to with the list constantly in double figures …

Martin, Williams, Gov, Cunners, Marchy... something needs to be done.

 

[Red Bull]

Martin, Williams, Gov, Cunners, Marchy... something needs to be done.

Throw McDonald in with that lot too.
I guess the uncontracted ones are a starting point.
Serious discussions need to be taking place in-house now.
Voss is being asked to fight with one hand tied behind his back …
It’s got to be addressed now !!

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Martin reported to have pinged his calf again.
Club really has to take an unemotional look at our injury list.
We just won’t get to where we want to with the list constantly in double figures …

Not this year. But the heavy training workload will set us up nicely for the future

 

[Coona Blues]

Not this year. But the heavy training workload will set us up nicely for the future

Yep. Reading between lines Voss and Russell are on a path to dramatically improve the conditioning of the group. I would not be at all surprised if the likes of Kemp, Stocker, Dow, Honey, Marchbank, Philp, Motlop, Carroll. Mirkov and Akuei, as well as a couple of more senior players, even senior regulars are on heavy loads and not getting much “taper” for game day at the moment.

This is likely to produce some niggling injuries as well as impressions of poor endurance. We are on the right trajectory and I have the impression we will see a tangible improvement over the off season.

We are not without prospects this year, despite the doomsayers reappearing at every opportunity to lay in the boots. We were outplayed last night. Yet, considering, with a little straighter kicking and/or the absence of a couple of umpiring howlers we absolutely have the right to feel “unlucky”..

 

[chunkylover53]

Yep. Reading between lines Voss and Russell are on a path to dramatically improve the conditioning of the group. I would not be at all surprised if the likes of Kemp, Stocker, Dow, Honey, Marchbank, Philp, Motlop, Carroll. Mirkov and Akuei, as well as a couple of more senior players, even senior regulars are on heavy loads and not getting much “taper” for game day at the moment.

This is likely to produce some niggling injuries as well as impressions of poor endurance. We are on the right trajectory and I have the impression we will see a tangible improvement over the off season.

We are not without prospects this year, despite the doomsayers reappearing at every opportunity to lay in the boots. We were outplayed last night. Yet, considering, with a little straighter kicking and/or the absence of a couple of umpiring howlers we absolutely have the right to feel “unlucky”..

Going by this logic, it sounds like they are keen to basically sacrifice this year when there is a Premiership there to be won... which to me would seem silly.

 

[Arr0w]

Going by this logic, it sounds like they are keen to basically sacrifice this year when there is a Premiership there to be won... which to me would seem silly.

it's great strategy taking the long term view, if you still benefit short term, thats a bonus

 

[Coona Blues]

Going by this logic, it sounds like they are keen to basically sacrifice this year when there is a Premiership there to be won... which to me would seem silly.

Nup, not at all. We have our injuries, and please do not underestimate the merit in last night’s performance. Missing AA key back general, under rated first ruck who doubles as a key cog in the midfield, arguably our best two way running midfield and possibly our best distributor by foot, top quality rebounding small defender. So four pillars of the team.

Then we add the trio of McDonald, Marchbank and McGovern all regarded as best team locks by most earlier in the season. We overlook Ed Curnow because of his age, but perennial top 5 B&F. Before injury Cuningham considered best 22.

We have a number of young players who have had setbacks slowing their development. Yet here we are one game off the top of the ladder.

Let’s just wait for the last five or six weeks of the season to have players back from injury. While the next couple of weeks waiting for Weitering especially and Pitto are going to be challenging. Hopefully just one more week minus Cerra to shore up the midfield. While integral, Williams, McGovern, Marchbank and possibly Ed and Cunners have almost become “cherry on top” with our resilient season. The group will “taper” if and when finals approach.

No one is sacrificing the season, but there is a definite eye to tomorrow which cannot be underestimated.

 

[chunkylover53]

What do we do about the rucks?

It's clear Voss has built a gameplan that relies on midfield dominance, which we can't do without a big, bash and crash ruckman to give us first use. Since Pitto went down, our midfield has come back to the pack very hard.

If Pittonet is out, we rely on De Koning who I actually don't think will end up a ruckman, I'm unsure where his future lies - maybe down back? But that's a discussion for another time.

So we have
Pittonet
daylight
De Koning
even more day light
Mirkov

I was against the idea of someone like Goldstein earlier, but I've very much come around to it. We need a mature backup option who is available to play. Is carrying 3-4 ruckman on a list too much? Maybe. But our gameplan seems to rely on it.

 

[The Defender]

What do we do about the rucks?

It's clear Voss has built a gameplan that relies on midfield dominance, which we can't do without a big, bash and crash ruckman to give us first use. Since Pitto went down, our midfield has come back to the pack very hard.

If Pittonet is out, we rely on De Koning who I actually don't think will end up a ruckman, I'm unsure where his future lies - maybe down back? But that's a discussion for another time.

So we have
Pittonet
daylight
De Koning
even more day light
Mirkov

I was against the idea of someone like Goldstein earlier, but I've very much come around to it. We need a mature backup option who is available to play. Is carrying 3-4 ruckman on a list too much? Maybe. But our gameplan seems to rely on it.

Glad you posted about TDK as I agree, needs to be played as key forward ( chop out ruck ) or tried as key back.

 

[chunkylover53]

Nup, not at all. We have our injuries, and please do not underestimate the merit in last night’s performance. Missing AA key back general, under rated first ruck who doubles as a key cog in the midfield, arguably our best two way running midfield and possibly our best distributor by foot, top quality rebounding small defender. So four pillars of the team.

Then we add the trio of McDonald, Marchbank and McGovern all regarded as best team locks by most earlier in the season. We overlook Ed Curnow because of his age, but perennial top 5 B&F. Before injury Cuningham considered best 22.

We have a number of young players who have had setbacks slowing their development. Yet here we are one game off the top of the ladder.

Let’s just wait for the last five or six weeks of the season to have players back from injury. While the next couple of weeks waiting for Weitering especially and Pitto are going to be challenging. Hopefully just one more week minus Cerra to shore up the midfield. While integral, Williams, McGovern, Marchbank and possibly Ed and Cunners have almost become “cherry on top” with our resilient season. The group will “taper” if and when finals approach.

No one is sacrificing the season, but there is a definite eye to tomorrow which cannot be underestimated.

Yeah I know. We've reached the edge with our injuries. It's breaking point, in fact beyond breaking point if Durdin and Martin are out.

That sort of proves my point more though. If this is somewhat manufactured for the sake of fitness beyond the year, I think that's a huge risk. Nothing is guaranteed in footy and there is a massive opening for a flag this year. And yes, we field a young side but we still have a few in their absolute prime.

 

[thylacine60]

Martin reported to have pinged his calf again.
Club really has to take an unemotional look at our injury list.
We just won’t get to where we want to with the list constantly in double figures …

Not sure what you expect the club to do? Discard the half dozen injury prone players we have? Probably at a time in the off season when they are all fully fit again? Like for like, simple as that? Expecting other clubs to queue up and cough up for players we no longer trust? Just delist? Bit more to it than that unfortunately.

 

[marcmurphy3]

What do we do about the rucks?

It's clear Voss has built a gameplan that relies on midfield dominance, which we can't do without a big, bash and crash ruckman to give us first use. Since Pitto went down, our midfield has come back to the pack very hard.

If Pittonet is out, we rely on De Koning who I actually don't think will end up a ruckman, I'm unsure where his future lies - maybe down back? But that's a discussion for another time.

So we have
Pittonet
daylight
De Koning
even more day light
Mirkov

I was against the idea of someone like Goldstein earlier, but I've very much come around to it. We need a mature backup option who is available to play. Is carrying 3-4 ruckman on a list too much? Maybe. But our gameplan seems to rely on it.

Same here. I'd grab Goldstein. Can also play forward in case of emergency.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

it's great strategy taking the long term view, if you still benefit short term, thats a bonus

This is the conflict between list manager and senior coach, which makes me wonder how much they actually do confer with each other when trading and drafting. It would be in the LM's best interest to constantly look into the future, whilst the coach would be more focused on a premiership as soon as possible. I'm sure Austin would be closely monitoring both AFL, VFL games and training sessions and would probably have the final say.

 

[marcmurphy3]

There is no chance Voss and Russell are doing stuff to the detriment of our current season to help future seasons. With a full team we are in the premiership hunt. Would be dumb. Have a whole preseason to get fitter.

I think us carlton supporters are so used to looking for the future because are present has always been so bleak. You have to take you opportunities when you get them in this game.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Going by this logic, it sounds like they are keen to basically sacrifice this year when there is a Premiership there to be won... which to me would seem silly.

Firstly you need to understand the fitness of the group prior to Voss. It's no coincidence that "some" players with injuries currently are the ones many have said they are lazy

 

[chunkylover53]

Firstly you need to understand the fitness of the group prior to Voss. It's no coincidence that "some" players with injuries currently are the ones many have said they are lazy

As marcmurphy3 said, do it in the pre-season. You don't push players to the limit during the year when you're in the hunt for a Premiership. If you have a top 4 spot sewn up then so be it - chuck in an old fashioned 'heavy training load' - however we're not in that position.

We're fit enough to go 9-3, therefore we should be fit enough to finish top 4, thus fit enough to be a threat.

Our window is now, and this is as open a year as ever.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

As marcmurphy3 said, do it in the pre-season. You don't push players to the limit during the year when you're in the hunt for a Premiership. If you have a top 4 spot sewn up then so be it - chuck in an old fashioned 'heavy training load' - however we're not in that position.

We're fit enough to go 9-3, therefore we should be fit enough to finish top 4, thus fit enough to be a threat.

Our window is now, and this is as open a year as ever.

Players were pushed during the preseason and will continue to have hard training sessions.

If it looks like they are running out of gas, that's because they haven't been as fit as they should have been in past seasons.

Voss and Russell know the standard they want the players to be at.

Again. The injuries to the players people called lazy in the past is all part and parcel of this season. Can't now just go easy on them.

 

[chunkylover53]

Players were pushed during the preseason and will continue to have hard training sessions.

If it looks like they are running out of gas, that's because they haven't been as fit as they should have been in past seasons.

Voss and Russell know the standard they want the players to be at.

Again. The injuries to the players people called lazy in the past is all part and parcel of this season. Can't now just go easy on them.

Interesting theory, not sure if I buy it; but interesting nonetheless.

fwiw I think it's more simple than we think. We try to get as fit as we can in pre-season and focus on winning for the year. There's no magic formula or grand plan to sacrifice some bodies for the greater good of our development. Just my two cents.