List Mgmt. List Management 2024-25

[JakeNeadeFan]

The Soldo trade was just outright terrible. Trading in an injury prone 3rd ruck for decent capital was actually just stupid.

The third ruck on the list should be a state league battler who can be a warm body for 2-3 games. Harry Boyd would have been fine. We don't need to be paying a ruck 400k to sit in the SANFL most.of the season.

Targetting Sav was fine. Everyone was calling for a ~200cm defender to play on the gorillas. The problem was the price. He was worth a late second at absolute maximum.

 

[Addy23]

The Soldo trade was just outright terrible. Trading in an injury prone 3rd ruck for decent capital was actually just stupid.

The third ruck on the list should be a state league battler who can be a warm body for 2-3 games. Harry Boyd would have been fine. We don't need to be paying a ruck 400k to sit in the SANFL most.of the season.

Targetting Sav was fine. Everyone was calling for a ~200cm defender to play on the gorillas. The problem was the price. He was worth a late second at absolute maximum.

We didnt get a 200 cm defender though........

We got a 200 cm athlete and frankly paid too much for him given his lack of experience in defence and it just look worse now.

 

[Brian McGee]

The Soldo trade was just outright terrible. Trading in an injury prone 3rd ruck for decent capital was actually just stupid.

The third ruck on the list should be a state league battler who can be a warm body for 2-3 games. Harry Boyd would have been fine. We don't need to be paying a ruck 400k to sit in the SANFL most.of the season.

Targetting Sav was fine. Everyone was calling for a ~200cm defender to play on the gorillas. The problem was the price. He was worth a late second at absolute maximum.

Except we saw him as our first ruck, hence him starting the season in that position. His best games this year have been the best of all of our rucks, and as a team widely thought to be contending (except amongst port fans) it was a good move. Injury has curtailed that, but that is a risk you take with any player in both trade and the draft. Sinn is another example. Hindsight doesn’t change that.

 

[longdonkey]

So what should we have done differently last trade period?

Bearing in mind, I agree that a first rounder was a heavy price, how do we get what we needed?

Maybe pry Cox loose from Freo? McKay didn’t seem keen on Adelaide, Grundy didn’t seem to want to come although I’ve heard conflicting things on this.

We needed key backs and rucks. Maybe we could have shifted Todd back? Or trialled Scully there in the hope he produced something?

So what should we have done?

Kept Hayes
Left Ratagolea in Geelong
Brought in Sweet and Zerk Thatcher
Sacked Hinkley

 

[philthy05]

Except we saw him as our first ruck, hence him starting the season in that position. His best games this year have been the best of all of our rucks, and as a team widely thought to be contending (except amongst port fans) it was a good move. Injury has curtailed that, but that is a risk you take with any player in both trade and the draft. Sinn is another example. Hindsight doesn’t change that.

Who needs hindsight? Soldo had just played 8 games as 2nd / 3rd fiddle and hasnever been able to stay on the park in his career.

We didn’t need hindsight, there was cold hard evidence.

It’s one thing to approach him and ask Richmond for a trade, but the decision to overpay for him was at the time a poor one. We didn’t need to do it.

We should have put a reasonable offer on the table and walked away when the price became unreasonable, like has happened a million times by every other team.

 

[JakeNeadeFan]

Except we saw him as our first ruck, hence him starting the season in that position. His best games this year have been the best of all of our rucks, and as a team widely thought to be contending (except amongst port fans) it was a good move. Injury has curtailed that, but that is a risk you take with any player in both trade and the draft. Sinn is another example. Hindsight doesn’t change that.

He came into the club having done an ACL and a PCL, as well as problems with his meniscus which we knew about. Not to mention a long history.of other injuries. It was a more risky pickup than normal.

And now he can't get on the park.

Also, yes his best games this year have been a bit better than Sweet's best. His worst games have been absolutely horrendous. Is it really worth spending what we did to get a slightly better ruck.

Not to mention Vis is waiting in the wings and is the heir apparent as the first ruck in the next 1-2 years.

 

[JimmyBC]

He came into the club having done an ACL and a PCL, as well as problems with his meniscus which we knew about. Not to mention a long history.of other injuries. It was a more risky pickup than normal.

And now he can't get on the park.

Also, yes his best games this year have been a bit better than Sweet's best. His worst games have been absolutely horrendous. Is it really worth spending what we did to get a slightly better ruck.

Not to mention Vis is waiting in the wings and is the heir apparent as the first ruck in the next 1-2 years.

Perhaps they thought Sweet was a long shot to be any more than a SANFL break glass backup.

I love Dante, but he's still green I'd like to see a two ruck set-up under someone not named Hinkley.

 

[Long live PAFC]

Hmmm I’m not necessarily supportive of our trades but like I asked what would you do instead?

- Hayes, Teakle, not afl standard. Lycett done. Dante isn’t ready to carry a ruck division. Dixon couldn’t carry the ruck division, lord is part time at best and Finlayson, whilst initially elite, has fallen away over the past 2 years and can’t be the full time ruck. Grundy didn’t want to come. Sweet was a second ruck, 11 games to his belt, little to suggest he would be any better than Hayes - many posters said this at the time. Could we really have rolled into this season with a ruck project and an untried VFL ruck as our ruck division?

- as for our key backs, Marshall, McCallum, Walsh - not ready. Clurey wasn’t getting a game, Jonas done, Pasini not AFL standard. McKenzie was under sized and injury prone. So with BZT and Alir, that’s two AFL ready and quality key backs. What happens with an injury or suspension? Besides, most people thought BZT was crap and no better than what we had. McKay didn’t really want to leave Melbourne, would we have made him a million dollar player to get him to come?


We had just been knocked out in straight sets with an injured, battered and fatigued side. It was reasonable to think that upgrading Jonas, McKenzie and Lycett along with the progression of Butters, Rozee and JHF would allow us to continue to be competitive and push for top four again. (Yes yea I know sack Hinkley and all that)

Going into season 2024 with nothing wasn’t acceptable. We had minimal to no draft capital. There weren’t heaps of players that were surplus to needs, would secure us trade capital and be willing to leave. Every team was desperate for talls - Fullarton was chased by Melbourne, Nuyoun went to North, Teakle trialled at the pies and the Hawks chased Esava. So not like there were heaps about.

Few players get marched to the PSD, I’m not sure how realistic that is to do these days. Jack Graham

34

Jack Graham

Age

26

Ht

181cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.7

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

6.8

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

6.3

5star

CL

1.8

4star

D

11.8

3star

K

5.3

2star

HB

6.5

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

4.2

5star

CL

1.2

4star

D

14.0

4star

K

6.0

3star

HB

8.0

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

7.0

5star

CL

3.2

5star

’s agent threw lots of shade our way after we didn’t get the deal done after such a public chase. I’m not sure if publicly chasing (Sav and BZT) and then not getting the deal done would play well. Maybe I’m overstating the importance of the relationship with agents but being a club known for getting the deal done is surely a good thing?


So what would we have done differently?

Maybe Melican? Maybe chase Brennan Cox

36

Brennan Cox

Age

26

Ht

195cm

Wt

97kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.1

3star

K

5.8

2star

HB

5.3

4star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.1

4star

MG

182.8

3star

D

12.3

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

4.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.0

2star

MG

182.8

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.8

4star

? Maybe trial Marshall or Dixon in defence?

 

[Duck Farmer]

The Soldo trade was just outright terrible.

We brought in Soldo to increase the club's silicone reserves but it backfired spectacularly.

 

[philthy05]

Hmmm I’m not necessarily supportive of our trades but like I asked what would you do instead?

- Hayes, Teakle, not afl standard. Lycett done. Dante isn’t ready to carry a ruck division. Dixon couldn’t carry the ruck division, lord is part time at best and Finlayson, whilst initially elite, has fallen away over the past 2 years and can’t be the full time ruck. Grundy didn’t want to come. Sweet was a second ruck, 11 games to his belt, little to suggest he would be any better than Hayes - many posters said this at the time. Could we really have rolled into this season with a ruck project and an untried VFL ruck as our ruck division?

- as for our key backs, Marshall, McCallum, Walsh - not ready. Clurey wasn’t getting a game, Jonas done, Pasini not AFL standard. McKenzie was under sized and injury prone. So with BZT and Alir, that’s two AFL ready and quality key backs. What happens with an injury or suspension? Besides, most people thought BZT was crap and no better than what we had. McKay didn’t really want to leave Melbourne, would we have made him a million dollar player to get him to come?


We had just been knocked out in straight sets with an injured, battered and fatigued side. It was reasonable to think that upgrading Jonas, McKenzie and Lycett along with the progression of Butters, Rozee and JHF would allow us to continue to be competitive and push for top four again. (Yes yea I know sack Hinkley and all that)

Going into season 2024 with nothing wasn’t acceptable. We had minimal to no draft capital. There weren’t heaps of players that were surplus to needs, would secure us trade capital and be willing to leave. Every team was desperate for talls - Fullarton was chased by Melbourne, Nuyoun went to North, Teakle trialled at the pies and the Hawks chased Esava. So not like there were heaps about.

Few players get marched to the PSD, I’m not sure how realistic that is to do these days. Jack Graham’s agent threw lots of shade our way after we didn’t get the deal done after such a public chase. I’m not sure if publicly chasing (Sav and BZT) and then not getting the deal done would play well. Maybe I’m overstating the importance of the relationship with agents but being a club known for getting the deal done is surely a good thing?


So what would we have done differently?

Maybe Melican? Maybe chase Brennan Cox? Maybe trial Marshall or Dixon in defence?

This question has been answered a bunch of times.


Not bend over and pay whatever is asked, especially for uncontracted players.

If we hadn’t signed esava or soldo we would be in the exact same place now anyway, just with our own first round pick.

But in all likelihood what would have happened is the teams would have realised we weren’t softcocks and traded those players for reasonable prices (or we would have got esava in the psd.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

Hmmm I’m not necessarily supportive of our trades but like I asked what would you do instead?

- Hayes, Teakle, not afl standard. Lycett done. Dante isn’t ready to carry a ruck division. Dixon couldn’t carry the ruck division, lord is part time at best and Finlayson, whilst initially elite, has fallen away over the past 2 years and can’t be the full time ruck. Grundy didn’t want to come. Sweet was a second ruck, 11 games to his belt, little to suggest he would be any better than Hayes - many posters said this at the time. Could we really have rolled into this season with a ruck project and an untried VFL ruck as our ruck division?

- as for our key backs, Marshall, McCallum, Walsh - not ready. Clurey wasn’t getting a game, Jonas done, Pasini not AFL standard. McKenzie was under sized and injury prone. So with BZT and Alir, that’s two AFL ready and quality key backs. What happens with an injury or suspension? Besides, most people thought BZT was crap and no better than what we had. McKay didn’t really want to leave Melbourne, would we have made him a million dollar player to get him to come?


We had just been knocked out in straight sets with an injured, battered and fatigued side. It was reasonable to think that upgrading Jonas, McKenzie and Lycett along with the progression of Butters, Rozee and JHF would allow us to continue to be competitive and push for top four again. (Yes yea I know sack Hinkley and all that)

Going into season 2024 with nothing wasn’t acceptable. We had minimal to no draft capital. There weren’t heaps of players that were surplus to needs, would secure us trade capital and be willing to leave. Every team was desperate for talls - Fullarton was chased by Melbourne, Nuyoun went to North, Teakle trialled at the pies and the Hawks chased Esava. So not like there were heaps about.

Few players get marched to the PSD, I’m not sure how realistic that is to do these days. Jack Graham’s agent threw lots of shade our way after we didn’t get the deal done after such a public chase. I’m not sure if publicly chasing (Sav and BZT) and then not getting the deal done would play well. Maybe I’m overstating the importance of the relationship with agents but being a club known for getting the deal done is surely a good thing?


So what would we have done differently?

Maybe Melican? Maybe chase Brennan Cox? Maybe trial Marshall or Dixon in defence?

Even before this question is asked, the List Management team and the Coaching Staff should know intimately the needs of the 23 well in advance. The ongoing prognosis of the list should be known and to have them get to the point where we've run out of rucks while having four on the list is umimpressive. Ditto KPD.

The List Management team did the right thing in upgrading with two rucks and two KPDs but they overpaid and in the off season I stated that in my review of the overall offseason changes down at the club.

I said in my review that I would've been happy with the haul we got if we didn't give up the first rounder. There seemed to be an air of desperation and considering the overall poor running of the club it didn't surprise that it had infiltrated into the List Management decisions.

 

[MrChow]

It’s too early to speculate on trades, especially that of Esava and Soldo.

Our ruck has been much more stable this year - youz remember Lycett.

While Esava has been a bit shakey, we don’t beat Geelong without him, and he gives us a match up against teams with big key forwards. For Esava it’s just about coaching - he probably should avoid being part of the chain out of defence, and he could be useful by providing a target down the line.

Sending him forward at the end of quarters too, or into the ruck, would also be good coaching.

 

[TeeKray]

All list management decisions should be viewed through the prism of 'could you see this player playing in a grand final for Port'.

Soldo is too old. Sweet is younger but will likely be replaced by Visentini as number one ruck long term. Ratugolea would very likely have been replaced by a superior player if we were to get to grand final level football.

So really we could've achieved all we needed to by swapping Duursma for Zerk-Thatcher and keeping all of our picks.

All of our list management decisions since the 2018 off season have been based around keeping Hinkley and Davies in their high paying jobs for as long as possible.

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

This boards funny. It’s been so obvious for years that our complete neglect at the draft for key defenders would kill us but majority here were happy with our defensive stocks, heck even claiming it’s one of our strong points.

It’s been dire for 2 decades. We still haven’t used a first round pick on a key defender since Chaplin in 2003. Think about that, 21 years without targeting such a key position.

It was inevitable that then when we go to trade, other clubs know we’re desperate and will bend us over at the table to fill the hole with average players.

Maybe, just maybe at some point in the last decade or two we should have addressed this at the draft instead of late shots in the third/fourth/rookie round and expecting them to hold strong.

Only have to look back to 2021 and taking Sinn over Aleer when our key defensive stocks were in an absolute hole.

Pathetic management but can only laugh now as it’s been so dam obvious for many years we would be here with the likes of Esava and splitting first round picks to fill holes.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

All list management decisions should be viewed through the prism of 'could you see this player playing in a grand final for Port'.

Soldo is too old. Sweet is younger but will likely be replaced by Visentini as number one ruck long term. Ratugolea would very likely have been replaced by a superior player if we were to get to grand final level football.

So really we could've achieved all we needed to by swapping Duursma for Zerk-Thatcher and keeping all of our picks.

All of our list management decisions since the 2018 off season have been based around keeping Hinkley and Davies in their high paying jobs for as long as possible.

But they were. The collective wisdom was that Port lacked ruckmen and key defenders, even the media was strong on that point. So we went out and recruited a couple of each.

We finished the minor round in 2023 in a top 4 position, obviously the coaches believed these players would help us go that extra step and play in (possibly even win) a grand final.

Obviously it didn't work out, but the decision is made at the time, not 18 weeks into the next season.

 

[Papa G]

Ratugolea was always a terrible option. The fact we got played by Geelong/ Andrew ****ing Mackie into pick 25 just makes it worse. The Guy is a C Grade footballer with E Grade Football Acumen.

 

[TeeKray]

But they were. The collective wisdom was that Port lacked ruckmen and key defenders, even the media was strong on that point. So we went out and recruited a couple of each.

We finished the minor round in 2023 in a top 4 position, obviously the coaches believed these players would help us go that extra step and play in (possibly even win) a grand final.

Obviously it didn't work out, but the decision is made at the time, not 18 weeks into the next season.

I'm a bit more cynical than that. I'm not sure they believed that. I certainly didn't watch the finals last year and think 'oh, if only we had an average ruckman and a solid key defender we'd be right in this!'. I sense it was more about self preservation which is a calling card of the Hinkley era.

Then again, what's the saying? Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.

 

[Portology]

All list management decisions should be viewed through the prism of 'could you see this player playing in a grand final for Port'.

Soldo is too old. Sweet is younger but will likely be replaced by Visentini as number one ruck long term. Ratugolea would very likely have been replaced by a superior player if we were to get to grand final level football.

So really we could've achieved all we needed to by swapping Duursma for Zerk-Thatcher and keeping all of our picks.

All of our list management decisions since the 2018 off season have been based around keeping Hinkley and Davies in their high paying jobs for as long as possible.

Yes that would be a nice prism to have. But as you suggest I feel the doubling up on both ruck and KPD showed all our list management eyes were on a definitively lower plane of confidence and ambition.

No confidence we had enough healthy KPD or rucks to be competitive in a prelim never mind win one and "play in a grand final".

No confidence any "missing piece" type rucks or KPDs were gettable, so we target pairs of 'best available/gettable' rucks and KPDs, and three of the four at the time could reasonably be described as "fringe in a genuine contender's best 22".

No confidence our existing up and coming ruck was ready or that any of our existing developing KPDs were even likely.

With Ken in proper %^&*ing hindsight, rolling the dice and setting for the long term would have looked a lot more like what you suggest, but IMO barring a deliberate "ruck Dixon into the ground" in his last year I still think a Sweet-type ruck backup would have been do-able cheaply and reasonable insurance.

It's like the prism actually used told us we can't possibly win the comp so let's shore up depth with a view to maintaining our current level of "achievement". Like Sauron feeding Saruman all the soul-sapping disinformation via the palantir, except no external master villain necessary when you do it to yourself.

 

[Coobk001]

All list management decisions should be viewed through the prism of 'could you see this player playing in a grand final for Port'.

I agree with this partially.

I think people underestimate the power of great depth. If you have better quality underneath, your best 22 are training in a tougher environment, they're developing faster and more ready to go at the top level. There's no doubt in my mind that the dropping away of our depth and the Magpies is having a negative effect on our sides development.

Yes in my opinion it is really important to have a solid group that can take you to a GF, but you also need solid role players around the edges, solid depth players for break glass situations plus to educate and nurture junior development, and then I think you need to have a blend of youngsters developing in the reserves.

I feel like we have holes in the core group, leaving us with too many role players, then we have holes in the depth group and leaving us far too unbalanced toward a plethora of youth.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

I agree with this partially.

I think people underestimate the power of great depth. If you have better quality underneath, your best 22 are training in a tougher environment, they're developing faster and more ready to go at the top level. There's no doubt in my mind that the dropping away of our depth and the Magpies is having a negative effect on our sides development.

Yes in my opinion it is really important to have a solid group that can take you to a GF, but you also need solid role players around the edges, solid depth players for break glass situations plus to educate and nurture junior development, and then I think you need to have a blend of youngsters developing in the reserves.

I feel like we have holes in the core group, leaving us with too many role players, then we have holes in the depth group and leaving us far too unbalanced toward a plethora of youth.

And sometimes you bring in a player to provide on-field leadership and to set standards.

I doubt Brisbane expected Luke Hodge to play in a grand final, but he provided leadership and helped to raise standards around the club, which they are still benefiting from.

His first season at Brisbane they went 4-15, his second season 14-8. Obviously he is not solely responsible for the uplift but he would have been part of the change.

 

[Coobk001]

And sometimes you bring in a player to provide on-field leadership and to set standards.

I doubt Brisbane expected Luke Hodge to play in a grand final, but he provided leadership and helped to raise standards around the club, which they are still benefiting from.

His first season at Brisbane they went 4-15, his second season 14-8. Obviously he is not solely responsible for the uplift but he would have been part of the change.

We could 100% do with someone that set more elite and ruthless defensive standards. We're far too meek. Nothing pisses me off more than the number of goals we concede through fumbling balls inside D50, pressure or no, lock the damn thing up.

 

[Minotaur2]

All list management decisions should be viewed through the prism of 'could you see this player playing in a grand final for Port'.

Soldo is too old. Sweet is younger but will likely be replaced by Visentini as number one ruck long term. Ratugolea would very likely have been replaced by a superior player if we were to get to grand final level football.

So really we could've achieved all we needed to by swapping Duursma for Zerk-Thatcher and keeping all of our picks.

All of our list management decisions since the 2018 off season have been based around keeping Hinkley and Davies in their high paying jobs for as long as possible.

The issue is that they saw us making a grand final this year in which I presume they thought Solda and Ratugolea would be playing.

I think they have genuinely thought they were a chance at a GF every year since 2018 and hence the missing piece recruitment. I think that the thinking was probably not too far off the mark either. We should have been stronger in that period than we have been. They clearly have not been meeting their own expectations which makes the dogged retention and support of the coach even more wrong.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

We could 100% do with someone that set more elite and ruthless defensive standards. We're far too meek. Nothing pisses me off more than the number of goals we concede through fumbling balls inside D50, pressure or no, lock the damn thing up.

RussellEbertHandball and I have a running gag about the number of goals we concede from inside the goal square.

 

[rumoursofwinter]

We lost 3 of 4 rucks in a season leaving us with a 20 year old. You might expect to lose two in a year but three is a lot! Port didnt have dean cox

Dean Cox

Age

43

Ht

203cm

Wt

107kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.9

4star

K

8.9

3star

HB

6.9

4star

M

5.3

5star

T

1.5

3star

G

0.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.0

4star

K

5.8

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.4

4star

G

0.0

1star

and a small ground to offer Grundy. I think he chose where he would play his best football.

Everyone said ports defence was undersized. Esava physically fits the bill, but I think Port over rated his ability and thought he was on an upwards spiral.

List management really had no option to get some rucks and tall defenders. I wanted to trade ollie wines and keep our first rounder, but its easier to trade picks than real people.

 

[Long live PAFC]

This question has been answered a bunch of times.


Not bend over and pay whatever is asked, especially for uncontracted players.

If we hadn’t signed esava or soldo we would be in the exact same place now anyway, just with our own first round pick.

But in all likelihood what would have happened is the teams would have realised we weren’t softcocks and traded those players for reasonable prices (or we would have got esava in the psd.

Alright mate. Schulz answered it. You’ve just said don’t do what we did. Don’t pay what we did. I don’t disagree but what should we have paid and what could we have done differently.

We needed two key defenders and two rucks - most agree on that.

Sweet was one ruck. Paid an ok price.

BZT for Duursma. If you wanted to just pay a third rounder, which one was getting it done? If you wanted to march him to the PSD, why wouldn’t Adelaide have selected him before us and make us look stupid? Would it be worth the risk of not having him just to not give the Dons Xavier?

Had we not done the Soldo or Ratugolea trades we would have had two key backs and two rucks only. Sweet, an untried ruck, and Visentini, a project ruck, one or two injuries and Finlayson is back being our ruck or an injured McKenzie holding down FB.

I agree with you that Sav was worth a third rounder and he was the wrong player. We needed a shutdown tall back, he was a poor man’s version of Alir. Plenty of pundits suggested he was worth a second at the time, but I know you don’t agree on this. Hawthorn and the Dons were also interested, they had picks before us and could have taken him (hindsight not a bad thing) so we couldn’t march him to the PSD either.

Generally teams don’t send players to the PSD anymore. Can’t remember when it last happened. It would have risked both players in this case. And it would have been a terrible look for port to chase two players, promise to get the trades done, walk them to the PSD and watch other sides pick them up. It was a sellers market, everyone wanted key backs and rucks. And we were desperate. Also you need to keep agents happy, after the clip we got from Jack Graham’s agent, maybe we needed to just get it down.

Personally I think we should have done whatever it took to get McKay and Grundy. Along with Sweet and BZT that would have cost us less, covered our needs and got us better players. Or chased Cox from Freo. Or moved Marshall and Dixon around.

Regardless we spent a first rounder we shouldn’t have. I’m not sure there were realistic alternatives but it hurts.

I'm a bit more cynical than that. I'm not sure they believed that. I certainly didn't watch the finals last year and think 'oh, if only we had an average ruckman and a solid key defender we'd be right in this!'. I sense it was more about self preservation which is a calling card of the Hinkley era.

Then again, what's the saying? Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.

We finished in the prelims twice, dropped out and then next year went out in straight sets. A big part of that was the young, beaten up and injured list with older players past their use by date. I think it’s reasonable to suggest that exchanging Jonas, McKenzie and Lycett for younger and fitter versions would see us competitive and pushing for top four again. Add in the improvements in the younger guys too. But yes I know Hinkley and all that.

It’s surprising that no one in the media has really pointed this out. We went all in and have not delivered. No one in the media thought we could be pushing for top four. Hinkley said it was the best list he had had. After some struggles, the media is know saying he doesn’t have the cattle. What this guy gets away with compared to others is incredible and I just don’t get it.