List Mgmt. List Management 2024-25

[Long live PAFC]

We lost 3 of 4 rucks in a season leaving us with a 20 year old. You might expect to lose two in a year but three is a lot! Port didnt have dean cox and a small ground to offer Grundy. I think he chose where he would play his best football.

Everyone said ports defence was undersized. Esava physically fits the bill, but I think Port over rated his ability and thought he was on an upwards spiral.

List management really had no option to get some rucks and tall defenders. I wanted to trade ollie wines and keep our first rounder, but it’s easier to trade picks than real people.

Hmm damn you’ve summarised my point much more succinctly.

 

[Long live PAFC]

We could 100% do with someone that set more elite and ruthless defensive standards. We're far too meek. Nothing pisses me off more than the number of goals we concede through fumbling balls inside D50, pressure or no, lock the damn thing up.

Wonder if Collingwood would let Maynard go? They need picks and someone like that would harden up the defence nicely.

 

[RangaInTeal]

Wonder if Collingwood would let Maynard go? They need picks and someone like that would harden up the defence nicely.

Take the Collingwood/Carlton halo off and he will cop a harsher punishment than Toby-Zac combination at the tribunal.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

All list management decisions should be viewed through the prism of 'could you see this player playing in a grand final for Port'.

100%. Of course. there are outliers but really that should be the overarching vision of the club.

The Four Frauds just quite don't have the capacity to know and train and coach that up.

Who ya got?

2017 - Tom Rockliff, Steven Motlop, Jack Watts, Trent McKenzie
2023 - Esava Ratugolea, Brandon Zerk-Thatcher, Ivan Soldo, Jordon Sweet

 

[Peninsula Boy]

It could be the biggest off season in quite a while.

 

[davesnothere]

It could be the biggest off season in quite a while.

It's got potential.

Zak Butters is the other one there's smoke around.

If that's going to happen I'd rather it was this year than next.

We can replace him in this draft.

 

[Watto71]

It's got potential.

Zak Butters is the other one there's smoke around.

If that's going to happen I'd rather it was this year than next.

We can replace him in this draft.

If we lost Butters and Houi would expect a combination of 3 top 10s 1of them top 5 and another pick before pick 16 or no deal and that's the least I would accept

 

[Addy23]

If we lost Butters and Houi would expect a combination of 3 top 10s 1of them top 5 and another pick before pick 16 or no deal and that's the least I would accept

If Butters and Houston are leaving this year and we are getting picks in this year's draft only, then I would ask for maybe 5 top 20 picks for the 2 of them. They are both contracted (Houston for longer) and there's no reason we should be caving in.

Saying that, with an eye on the 2025 draft, I would be trying to get a top 5 pick in the next draft to try and snag Dyson Sharp

 

[Rigs]

My feel is Butters will be gone by end of next year.

 

[Ports1870]

Look I love Houston but if he wanted out and we were able to move him for multiple first rounders, then go and get Cumming or Perryman (Or both) as FAs I would almost call that net gain for the future shape of the list.

 

[Chewy316]

It's got potential.

Zak Butters is the other one there's smoke around.

If that's going to happen I'd rather it was this year than next.

We can replace him in this draft.

If Butters leaves it is more likely he will leave at the end of next season. Haven't heard anything to suggest he wants out now.

 

[longdonkey]

Alright mate. Schulz answered it. You’ve just said don’t do what we did. Don’t pay what we did. I don’t disagree but what should we have paid and what could we have done differently.

We needed two key defenders and two rucks - most agree on that.

Sweet was one ruck. Paid an ok price.

BZT for Duursma. If you wanted to just pay a third rounder, which one was getting it done? If you wanted to march him to the PSD, why wouldn’t Adelaide have selected him before us and make us look stupid? Would it be worth the risk of not having him just to not give the Dons Xavier?

Had we not done the Soldo or Ratugolea trades we would have had two key backs and two rucks only. Sweet, an untried ruck, and Visentini, a project ruck, one or two injuries and Finlayson is back being our ruck or an injured McKenzie holding down FB.

I agree with you that Sav was worth a third rounder and he was the wrong player. We needed a shutdown tall back, he was a poor man’s version of Alir. Plenty of pundits suggested he was worth a second at the time, but I know you don’t agree on this. Hawthorn and the Dons were also interested, they had picks before us and could have taken him (hindsight not a bad thing) so we couldn’t march him to the PSD either.

Generally teams don’t send players to the PSD anymore. Can’t remember when it last happened. It would have risked both players in this case. And it would have been a terrible look for port to chase two players, promise to get the trades done, walk them to the PSD and watch other sides pick them up. It was a sellers market, everyone wanted key backs and rucks. And we were desperate. Also you need to keep agents happy, after the clip we got from Jack Graham’s agent, maybe we needed to just get it down.

Personally I think we should have done whatever it took to get McKay and Grundy. Along with Sweet and BZT that would have cost us less, covered our needs and got us better players. Or chased Cox from Freo. Or moved Marshall and Dixon around.

Regardless we spent a first rounder we shouldn’t have. I’m not sure there were realistic alternatives but it hurts.



We finished in the prelims twice, dropped out and then next year went out in straight sets. A big part of that was the young, beaten up and injured list with older players past their use by date. I think it’s reasonable to suggest that exchanging Jonas, McKenzie and Lycett for younger and fitter versions would see us competitive and pushing for top four again. Add in the improvements in the younger guys too. But yes I know Hinkley and all that.

It’s surprising that no one in the media has really pointed this out. We went all in and have not delivered. No one in the media thought we could be pushing for top four. Hinkley said it was the best list he had had. After some struggles, the media is know saying he doesn’t have the cattle. What this guy gets away with compared to others is incredible and I just don’t get it.

I'm not sure I'm agreeing with ..what we all agreed on. What I thought was the case is we needed a replacement for Lycett because he was lame and finished. We also agreed we needed a tall defender to play on the monsters.

Now what we got was a ruckman who is almost as crocked as Lycett and 2 backs who have settled into the high press rebound marking game that we previously played. The monster forwards are now gone Hawkins and Lynch are finished and we could have equally got a Tom Highmore style back for nothing or moved Bergman back. Which we have done to an extent.

Bringing in Sweet gave Hinkley the excuse to delist Hayes.

What could we have done - used one of the Soldo 2nd Round picks for Zerk-Thatcher. Brought in Tom Highmore or Tim O'Brien for nothing. Not traded Duursma, kept Hayes and brought in Sweet and had a 3 way fight for the spot.

We keep a player and a first and 2nd round pick. And who know perhaps one of those 2 picks could be used on a Ruck or key back.

 

[backtozero]

Esava was a fine option a loose man, but he's not a key position player and was never going to be.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

If and it's a big if Hinkley is gone at the end of the season, the big question is is Carr pulling the reigns of the players he wants at the club already. Does he know what he wants to Implement and does he have the cattle? We dont want another 1st rounder gone for some journeymen.

 

[Addy23]

If and it's a big if Hinkley is gone at the end of the season, the big question is is Carr pulling the reigns of the players he wants at the club already. Does he know what he wants to Implement and does he have the cattle? We dont want another 1st rounder gone for some journeymen.

I would say he knows what he wants to implement but I dont believe the cattle is there, at least quite yet. I think it will depend on the assistant coaches he hopefully brings in, cause there needs to be some proper development of youth to make sure we have the cattle. Cornes and Goldsack are good enough to be AFL level coaches imo.

You look at other clubs, there's some highly qualified/experienced coaches amongst the assistant ranks. Other clubs have 2 coaches within their structure that could be senior coaches. Richmond had Hardwick/McRae in their flag years (not sure if all 3 years though), Collingwood last year had McRae/Leppitsch, Eagles in 2018 had Simpson/Graham/Mitchell, the dominant Hawks side had Clarkson/Beveridge

We have only Carr and thats still a question mark atm but I'll give him the benefit of doubt. None of the other coaches amongst are ranks would be working at a different club. Hence why letting go of Montgomery and Schofield were a huge mistake at the time. But those 2 must have been the only ones that challenged Ken so they were perceived as danger by the bald heads

 

[Chewy316]

If and it's a big if Hinkley is gone at the end of the season, the big question is is Carr pulling the reigns of the players he wants at the club already. Does he know what he wants to Implement and does he have the cattle? We dont want another 1st rounder gone for some journeymen.

Carr knows what he wants in terms of game style. It's going to look a lot different than what we currently see, particularly with regards to defensive setups.

 

[Revan11]

If Butters leaves it is more likely he will leave at the end of next season. Haven't heard anything to suggest he wants out now.

Which would give whoever is the next coach a year to convince him to stay.

 

[Chewy316]

Which would give whoever is the next coach a year to convince him to stay.

If he stays, fine. If he doesn't, you're probably getting 2 first round picks and a handy player given he would still be under contract for a year.

If you trade out Houston and Butters, you're probably adding 4 first round picks to the list in the process. This could definitely accelerate any rebuild under a new coach.

Not saying this is what I would do personally, but I can see the rationale - particularly around letting Houston go for the right offer.

 

[Revan11]

If he stays, fine. If he doesn't, you're probably getting 2 first round picks and a handy player given he would still be under contract for a year.

If you trade out Houston and Butters, you're probably adding 4 first round picks to the list in the process. This could definitely accelerate any rebuild under a new coach.

Not saying this is what I would do personally, but I can see the rationale - particularly around letting Houston go for the right offer.

Butters is 23/24 and a superstar level player. I think losing him would be devastating, even if getting picks back.

He's right in the age bracket of players that would be in our next flag push.

 

[davesnothere]

Melbourne I suspect are going to end up with the Crows 1st pick after they offload Oliver.

They want Houston I'd want that.

 

[Addy23]

Melbourne I suspect are going to end up with the Crows 1st pick after they offload Oliver.

They want Houston I'd want that.

I'd want more than that

 

[Peninsula Boy]

Carr knows what he wants in terms of game style. It's going to look a lot different than what we currently see, particularly with regards to defensive setups.

I am hopeful of no more high press and accountable footy in the backline where the backmen are aggressively looking to win against their man.

Houston would be a loss but it would enable Carr to get a player or two he wants to slot into the team.

 

[Chewy316]

I am hopeful of no more high press and accountable footy in the backline where the backmen are aggressively looking to win against their man.

Houston would be a loss but it would enable Carr to get a player or two he wants to slot into the team.

Under a Carr led Port the ridiculously high press would be gone. He will structure them to defend similarly to Freo. I also wouldn't be surprised if he preferred a two KPD defence with Bergman as the 3rd tall as opposed to playing all of Aliir, Rat and BZT in the same side.

 

[Chizza12]

Esava was a fine option a loose man, but he's not a key position player and was never going to be.

I actually think it's the reverse of that, he doesn't have the footy smarts to play loose man or the kicking skills to take advantage of intercept marks with quick play on movement. To me his only chance of making it is as a pure shut down defender, you beat your man your job is done.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

Under a Carr led Port the ridiculously high press would be gone. He will structure them to defend similarly to Freo. I also wouldn't be surprised if he preferred a two KPD defence with Bergman as the 3rd tall as opposed to playing all of Aliir, Rat and BZT in the same side.

I got to tell you that your recent posting has elevated my hope to A New Hope.

An accountable, speedy defence would be awesome.