now thats funny, "if only"Klem said:
I suppose it would be a boring old football world if all supporters were realistic.
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AFLW 2024 - Round 6 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Lockett or Dunstall?
- Thread starter Lee Bowyer
- Start date
- Tagged users None
I suppose it would be a boring old football world if all supporters were realistic.
Why second best?The Fireman said:
The real question is
"Would Port Adelaide's current forward line kick more goals with Lockett or Dunstall as it's full forward, and thus have a better chance of winning another flag".
The answer is Dunstall every day of the week and twice on game day.
PAfolwr said:
how the hell did you work that out. Plain to see you will never be a selector ,lolLooks like the stats mean little to some.
There are factors for and against these 2 full forwards, i think they were equally as good as each other, but 1 thing a few of my fellow Hawthorn supporterts are failing to realize is the fact Lockett has the record plain and simple, so that makes him the best by a whisker.
Look on the bright side we have the best player of all time, Lethal.
Look on the bright side we have the best player of all time, Lethal.
- Banned
- #30
You know we are going to be sitting in a nursing home somwhere watching the nurses bend over and start thinking about full forwards to help take our minds off the flanks.. and we will all look back and think ..we lived in a time and watched the 2 best ever FFs together.
I picked Dunstall but only just..I feel Dunstalls allover ability and athleticism helped him more..Lockett was a crash bang leading type of FF. Ask P Caven how well he crashes packs...gee a bees pubic on the outcome of this vote.
I picked Dunstall but only just..I feel Dunstalls allover ability and athleticism helped him more..Lockett was a crash bang leading type of FF. Ask P Caven how well he crashes packs...gee a bees pubic on the outcome of this vote.
Some of your reasoning, Fireman, is a little bit off.
You are correct in saying that Hawthorn was abetter side than Sydney and St.Kilda during the Duntall/Lockett years. Where my difference of opinion rises is what this means for the respective full forwards. Having played full forward in good and bad sides and having watched all of Lockett and Dunstall, I will share my opinion. The ball reached the forward line more in a good/Hawthorn side. However it was kicked to Dunstall significantly less. Hawthorn's biggest strength was its forward line with Brereton, Buckenara, ablett, etc which meant many options as well as unmanned players due to double teaming either Dunstall or Brereton. These players were all good players and would undoubtedly kick for goal themself. Sydney and St.Kilda, by contrast, would kick to Lockett no matter what. This is evidenced by Dunstall kicking more and more goals the worse Hawthorn got. (i.e. post 92). Dunstall was a better player (and uninjured) during Hawthorn's glory years but kicked more goals the less superstars he played alongside. It was the same in reverse for me. I would kick 100 goals when my team was mid-table. Then we picked up a good CHF and FP and we won premierships even though I was kicking 60-70 goals.
Dunstall did kick marginally less goals but I firmly believe he was responsible for many more. His defensive pressure and passes to better positions were far greater than that of Lockett.
As good as he was, Lockett was a sniper, as the tribunral will testify. He instilled fear in opponents through dirty football whereas Dunstall simply outplayed them every time. Dunstall also had much harsher injuries.
All in all, it is like splitting hairs but I feel Dunstall would be responsible for more goals than Lockett if given the same team to play with.
You are correct in saying that Hawthorn was abetter side than Sydney and St.Kilda during the Duntall/Lockett years. Where my difference of opinion rises is what this means for the respective full forwards. Having played full forward in good and bad sides and having watched all of Lockett and Dunstall, I will share my opinion. The ball reached the forward line more in a good/Hawthorn side. However it was kicked to Dunstall significantly less. Hawthorn's biggest strength was its forward line with Brereton, Buckenara, ablett, etc which meant many options as well as unmanned players due to double teaming either Dunstall or Brereton. These players were all good players and would undoubtedly kick for goal themself. Sydney and St.Kilda, by contrast, would kick to Lockett no matter what. This is evidenced by Dunstall kicking more and more goals the worse Hawthorn got. (i.e. post 92). Dunstall was a better player (and uninjured) during Hawthorn's glory years but kicked more goals the less superstars he played alongside. It was the same in reverse for me. I would kick 100 goals when my team was mid-table. Then we picked up a good CHF and FP and we won premierships even though I was kicking 60-70 goals.
Dunstall did kick marginally less goals but I firmly believe he was responsible for many more. His defensive pressure and passes to better positions were far greater than that of Lockett.
As good as he was, Lockett was a sniper, as the tribunral will testify. He instilled fear in opponents through dirty football whereas Dunstall simply outplayed them every time. Dunstall also had much harsher injuries.
All in all, it is like splitting hairs but I feel Dunstall would be responsible for more goals than Lockett if given the same team to play with.
Good Comment Guardian. I simply can't get away from the fact that Lockett kicked more goals. More goals in an inferior side. Admittedly the ball was delivered to Lockett more but the quality of delivery was questionable , Lockett had to work a lot harder for the pill. ( I remember clearly Dunstall taking many many clean marks on a lead the ball being delivered on his chest time after time.) You can say Lockett was intimidating, correct but in these circumstances he needed to be, but this means little when you consider him playing in a better side. When they were playing I was always confident that Lockett would be the higher Goal kicker and I'm sure most held that view at the time.
But in finishing it was a pleasure to have been able to witness two legendary carreers.
PS I have a piece of video footage somewhere of a game between Queensland and I think Vic where the ball hits the full forward and Lou Richards says" This Dunstall kid looks alright"
But in finishing it was a pleasure to have been able to witness two legendary carreers.
PS I have a piece of video footage somewhere of a game between Queensland and I think Vic where the ball hits the full forward and Lou Richards says" This Dunstall kid looks alright"
The Fireman said:
I remember that game. St Kilda (I think coming off a wooden spoon) were playing a combined banana-bender side in a practice match pre 1985 season and beat them by about 100 points. Queensland's only decent player on the day was Dunstall - I remember this because I was excited that Hawthorn was getting him.
That's the one.stemline said:
The Fireman said:
No. I said I'd take Dunstall over Lockett on what he gave to the side that I know Lockett wouldn't give. Total dedication, determination and application in all regards. Lockett may edge on pure talent but on the other parts.. he is clearly behind Dunstall, clearly.
Bull. Nobody knows any 'given' on what or may not have happened. If Dunstall hadn't of injured the knee twice I could say it was a 'given' he'd now hold the goal kicking record and there's no way you could dispute it.. not as a 'given' from my pov.
You make ref to leads 'lace out'. Many of those leads were made by Dunstall's timing and ability to 'catch' hard balls to either side (legacy of his soccer goal-keeping days). Why did we go through a five year period either side of his retirement without a similar returns from his ff predecessor/successor then? Given similar quality delivery you'd think that should be a 'given'.
Lockett was a great, Dunstall was a great. For mine, the HFC was better off having a 100% committed great than a wayward one. Just like we got rid of Ablett, the talent was sublime but it's a team game, not an individual game. No matter how good you are, the more you play for the team and the less for self, the better of the TEAM will be.
mocaholic
Norm Smith Medallist
Two fantastic FF's. We were absolutely spoilt and now we can only look back and have these sorts of argy-bargy.
Swans fan and gave Plugger the nod, but more for his St. Kilda days than anything - the for/agin arguments (delivery for Hawks vs primary target for Saints) are just that.
Still remember the Hawks Saints game at the G 1987 when Plugger kicked 9.7 - and virtually lost the game for them with his wayward kicking in the 3rd quarter. I saw him take on and beat Ayres, Mew & Langford - together - in marking contests that day. An absolutely incredible individual performance in a spectacle of a game.
Winmar kicked a goal from the wing, Dermie clocked Spud behind play (following three quarters of scragging) and when Grant when on him he turned the game ifo Hawks who won by not much.
Perhaps Dunstall was more the 'team' contributor than Plugger but that can almost come down to personalities rather than ability. I also saw Dunstall in 1992 kick 10 (I think) against us in Sydney as well as give a few away, and just shook my head as he took apart a young Andrew Dunkley.
Two great players. Kicking to themselves in the SOO game vs SA in June 1987 cos they were afraid to look greedy.
Swans fan and gave Plugger the nod, but more for his St. Kilda days than anything - the for/agin arguments (delivery for Hawks vs primary target for Saints) are just that.
Still remember the Hawks Saints game at the G 1987 when Plugger kicked 9.7 - and virtually lost the game for them with his wayward kicking in the 3rd quarter. I saw him take on and beat Ayres, Mew & Langford - together - in marking contests that day. An absolutely incredible individual performance in a spectacle of a game.
Winmar kicked a goal from the wing, Dermie clocked Spud behind play (following three quarters of scragging) and when Grant when on him he turned the game ifo Hawks who won by not much.
Perhaps Dunstall was more the 'team' contributor than Plugger but that can almost come down to personalities rather than ability. I also saw Dunstall in 1992 kick 10 (I think) against us in Sydney as well as give a few away, and just shook my head as he took apart a young Andrew Dunkley.
Two great players. Kicking to themselves in the SOO game vs SA in June 1987 cos they were afraid to look greedy.
- Banned
- #37
Lockett, but wouldnt mind Piggy at my club either
I can't split them.
Dunstall was is/was the best leading fullforward of all time.
Lockett the best one on one/two/three of all time.
They were both beautiful kicks for goal.
Lockett 1 Brownlow, Leading goal kicker of all-time.
Dunstall 4 Premierships, Captain 4 years.
(I also think Tony has a Coleman or two more than Jason)
I reckon to watch them at there best was awesome. I think at their absolute best Lockett was better.
I also reckon if you asked Lockett if he could trade his Brownlow and record for 1 premiership let alone four he'd jump at the chance.
On the full forward in bad team/good team. I think it all works itself out. If your in the bad team they kick it to you more (not as well, and you're probably double teamed on occassion), if your in a good team you get the opportunity to be one out more but still have to earn attracting the football as there are more other options.
I've watched the 89 GF a few times and reckon Ablett was kicked the ball 30-40 times, not to mention all the stoppages in the forward line. He kicked 8 or 9 goals but was beaten in 15 marking contests kicked a bunch of points. Hawthorn played their 3rd tall backman on him, who was carrying an injury.
He should have won them the game but wasn't good enough on the day and they still give him the Norm Smith.. what a joke!
My point is, he was the main attacking focus and while he kicked some goals it wasn't enough for the opportunities he had.
Can't remember a guy (other than Ablett) kicking 11 of a teams 13 or 14 and the team (Geelong) loses.
Dunstall was is/was the best leading fullforward of all time.
Lockett the best one on one/two/three of all time.
They were both beautiful kicks for goal.
Lockett 1 Brownlow, Leading goal kicker of all-time.
Dunstall 4 Premierships, Captain 4 years.
(I also think Tony has a Coleman or two more than Jason)
I reckon to watch them at there best was awesome. I think at their absolute best Lockett was better.
I also reckon if you asked Lockett if he could trade his Brownlow and record for 1 premiership let alone four he'd jump at the chance.
On the full forward in bad team/good team. I think it all works itself out. If your in the bad team they kick it to you more (not as well, and you're probably double teamed on occassion), if your in a good team you get the opportunity to be one out more but still have to earn attracting the football as there are more other options.
I've watched the 89 GF a few times and reckon Ablett was kicked the ball 30-40 times, not to mention all the stoppages in the forward line. He kicked 8 or 9 goals but was beaten in 15 marking contests kicked a bunch of points. Hawthorn played their 3rd tall backman on him, who was carrying an injury.
He should have won them the game but wasn't good enough on the day and they still give him the Norm Smith.. what a joke!
My point is, he was the main attacking focus and while he kicked some goals it wasn't enough for the opportunities he had.
Can't remember a guy (other than Ablett) kicking 11 of a teams 13 or 14 and the team (Geelong) loses.
It's funny how the only people choosing Dunstall are Hawk supporters, everyone else is choosing Lockett, how strange
Yes a correct Saint supporter.Hawk_2004 said:Funny how this comment comes from a Saints supporter
check the poll and then you can tell yourself something.Hawk_2004 said:
Oh now I get it , your right and everyone else is wrong. If you don't take Bigfooty seriously then obviously you can't be taken seriously.Hawk_2004 said:And yeah I take Big Footy seriously
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