Expansion Making State of Origin work

[genghiskhan]

Yep, I'm a great believer in the right of the indigenous people of New Zealand to represent themselves if they so wish.

In fact maori sports carnivals are a major sporting event in their own right in NZ.

Can't see the issue in it really. It's only sport after all.

New Zealand is an example of why these things must be avoided. It is an extremely racist country. Your foreign minister says things like this:

"Maori will be disturbed to know that in 17 years’ time they will be outnumbered by Asians in New Zealand."

The expression of the Maori identity has provoked the expression of a Pakeha identity that excludes all non-whites, and contributes greatly to the racism against New Zealanders of Asian descent.

Maori have strong cultural status in NZ, just as Aborigines have strong cultural status in Australia, but Maori in Australia actually do better than Maori in New Zealand. There could be a message in that.

 

[Aucklander]

New Zealand is an example of why these things must be avoided. It is an extremely racist country. Your foreign minister says things like this:

"Maori will be disturbed to know that in 17 years’ time they will be outnumbered by Asians in New Zealand."

The expression of the Maori identity has provoked the expression of a Pakeha identity that excludes all non-whites, and contributes greatly to the racism against New Zealanders of Asian descent.

Maori have strong cultural status in NZ, just as Aborigines have strong cultural status in Australia, but Maori in Australia actually do better than Maori in New Zealand. There could be a message in that.

Maori sports teams are a reflection of our history. They've become an accepted part of the Kiwi way of life.

I happily support them.

As for New Zealand being a racist country, well it's clearly no worse than Australia. If anything, my experiences have found it (Australia)to be much worse.

 

[genghiskhan]

Maori sports teams are a reflection of our history. They've become an accepted part of the Kiwi way of life.

I happily support them.

As for New Zealand being a racist country, well it's clearly no worse than Australia. If anything, my experiences have found it (Australia)to be much worse.

Let's forget about racism then. Its a very subjective judgement to make. Instead, let's consider which country has a cultural policy most suited to securing each country's economic and social future. Australia's three largest trading partners as China, Japan, and South Korea. New Zealand's are Australia, United States and Japan. The most common second language in Australia is Japanese. In New Zealand, it is Maori. Australia is trying to secure a free trade deal with China. New Zealand's foreign minister opposes a free-trade deal. He also fearful that Asians will outnumber Maori in a few years.

On average, per capita output of Australians is 30 per cent high than New Zealanders. 20 per cent of New Zealanders live outside of New Zealand, with half of those people living in Australia. New Zealand has a distinct label of New Zealanders of white extraction that excludes all others.
Australian soccer is part of the Asian confederation. New Zealand is part of Oceania.

New Zealand is definitely more insular, and tradition minded that Australia.
The way things are going in New Zealand, in 50 years time it will be like Fiji or the Solomon Islands. All beautiful countries, but all torn apart with ethnic strife stemming from people wanting to support their traditional cultures instead of mixing, integrating and evolving. These racial based identities that find expression in monoracial sporting teams are part of the problem.

 

[Aucklander]

Let's forget about racism then.

Smart move.

Its a very subjective judgement to make.

Instead, let's consider which country has a cultural policy most suited to securing each country's economic and social future. Australia's three largest trading partners as China, Japan, and South Korea. New Zealand's are Australia, United States and Japan. The most common second language in Australia is Japanese. In New Zealand, it is Maori. Australia is trying to secure a free trade deal with China. New Zealand's foreign minister opposes a free-trade deal. He also fearful that Asians will outnumber Maori in a few years.

On average, per capita output of Australians is 30 per cent high than New Zealanders. 20 per cent of New Zealanders live outside of New Zealand, with half of those people living in Australia. New Zealand has a distinct label of New Zealanders of white extraction that excludes all others.
Australian soccer is part of the Asian confederation. New Zealand is part of Oceania.

New Zealand is definitely more insular, and tradition minded that Australia.
The way things are going in New Zealand, in 50 years time it will be like Fiji or the Solomon Islands. All beautiful countries, but all torn apart with ethnic strife stemming from people wanting to support their traditional cultures instead of mixing, integrating and evolving. These racial based identities that find expression in monoracial sporting teams are part of the problem.

Interesting thoughts. Time will tell.

I've never thought our maori representative teams have been the cause of NZ's ills. But people will always have problems with race based teams and that's their problem really.

Being a tiny nation, with a small population isolated at the bottom of the world certainly doesn't help.

 

[genghiskhan]

Smart move.



Interesting thoughts. Time will tell.

I've never thought our maori representative teams have been the cause of NZ's ills. But people will always have problems with race based teams and that's their problem really.

Being a tiny nation, with a small population isolated at the bottom of the world certainly doesn't help.

when I was growing up, when people thought of Lebonese in Sydney, they thought of the likes of Benny Elias playing for Balmain and NSW. Then the ARL came along with their Lebonese teams aiming to show pride in Lebanese culture but other agendas were really at play.

Despite the positive intentions, there was definitely a deterioration in attitudes towards Lebanese after those teams came into existence. The proud expression of a Lebonese identity in rugby league seemed to lead to the proud expression of a Lebonese identity in daily life. In turn, this provoked the proud expression of a Korean identity, and those two ethnic groups have been at each other for years in Sydney now. As we saw in Cronulla a few years ago, it also provoked the proud expression of an Australian identity that excluded Lebonese from it.

 

[Professor Knowall]

BTW - Even as I type, NSW is playing Qld in SOO (but sans AFL listed players) as a curtain raiser at the MCG before the Vic v Dreamteam game tonight.

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

BTW - Even as I type, NSW is playing Qld in SOO (but sans AFL listed players) as a curtain raiser at the MCG before the Vic v Dreamteam game tonight.

And no one in QLD or NSW knows or cares.

 

[RUNVS]

And no one in QLD or NSW knows or cares.

Thats because it is a Under 18's match. The only people who care are AFL scouts.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

To get the thread back on track, I think this is most of the ideas put forward so far.

Unfortunately, its all a theoretical exercise as there seems to be zero chance of true Origin coming back; especially on a regular basis.

The promotion demotion idea seems to be the best IMO.

One round of games every year. If you lose you drop down, if you win you go up. Play it in 1 of 2 midseason breaks.

Season 1 might be:

Victoria v WA
SA v QLD/NT
NSW/ACT vs Tassie

The next season would be

Vic v SA
WA v Tassie
QLD/NT v NSW/ACT

etc.

Only takes one weekend, and you get 3 games. The problem is getting players to play, and clubs to allow them to play.

I figure they can solve that problem by offering cash prizes for every player a club has selected in the SOO comp.

Say, 100,000 a player. The AFL hands Geelong 100,000 for each of the 18 odd players it would get into these teams. Hard to say no to. Rewards clubs who produce SOO level players, and gives clubs insentive to release them.

and there is my idea.

For the first season only, the six states + the NT is ranked from 1>7. The rankings for the next season and beyond will be decided by the matches.

Like this:
Victoria - with 334 players in the AFL are 1st
WA - 124 -- 2nd
SA - 113 -- 3rd
QLD - 50 -- 4th
NSW - 38 -- 5th
NT - 25 -- 6th
TAS - 24 -- 7th


I've changed my mind about the mid-season break. I think a fort-night, before any afl practice games would be ideal. I mean, what better way to end the footy drought than with two weekends of State of Origin? And no clubs can have a ____ing whinge.


The first weekend will consist of 3 matches (2nd v 3rd, 4th v 5th, 6th v 7th)

The second weekend will consist of 3 matches. (including the final)


So first weekend would look like this:

SA v WA-------> South Australia wins (example)

QLD v NSW-----> Queensland wins

NT v TAS-------> Tasmania wins

Victoria go straight to the final as they are the 1st ranked state. After the first State of Origin the reigning champion will go straight to the final.

And the second weekend will look like this:

NSW v TAS------> Tasmania wins (example). Take NSWs spot for 5th.

WA v QLD-------> Queensland wins. Takes WAs spot for 3rd.
final
VIC v SA--------> South Australia wins. Takes VICs spot for 1st (champion)


And the rankings are now like this:

1 - South Australia
2 - Victoria
3 - Queensland
4 - Western Australia
5 - Tasmania
6 - New South Wales
7 - Northern Territory



So the next year would look like this:

Week 1

VIC vs QLD--------> Victoria wins (example remember! )

WA vs TAS--------> Western Australia wins

NSW vs NT--------> New South Wales wins

Week 2

TAS vs NSW-------> New South Wales wins. Takes Tassies spot for 5th.

QLD vs WA--------> Western Australia wins. Takes Qlds spot for 3rd.
final
SA vs VIC---------> Victoria wins. Takes SAs spot for...? Thats right. 1st.

And now the ranking look like this:
1 - Victoria
2 - South Australia
3 - Western Australia
4 - Queensland
5 - New South Wales
6 - Tasmania
7 - Northern Territory




Just incase you're not getting it, I'll add the next year.

Week 1

SA vs WA---------> Western Australia wins

QLD vs NSW------> New South Wales wins

TAS vs NT--------> Northern Territory wins

Week 2

QLD vs NT--------> Northern T wins. Takes qlds spot for 5th.

SA vs NSW-------> NSW wins. Takes SAs spot for 3rd.

VIC vs WA--------> VIC wins. Stays number 1.

So....:

1 - Victoria
2 - Western Australia
3 - New South Wales
4 - South Australia
5 - Northern Territory
6 - Queensland
7 - Tasmania




Get it?



6 games. All states play another state that is either directly above them, or directly below them, so there would be less blow-outs. Would be ____ing brilliant.


Can anyone do the next season for me?

I think one of the concerns from the likes of Brisbane was that they would have to contribute too many players to the origin team. Even though it is not really fair, it lessens that problem. In any case, NSW has ACT.


Maybe week 1

Vic vs WA
SA vs NT/Queens
Tas vs NSW - (Hobart)

week 2
Vic vs Queens/NT
SA vs WA
Tas vs NSW

Six games in Total
Played on two weekends
About 30 per cent of players involved.

The other issue is how to persuade the clubs. I seriously think it is short-sightedness that they don't support it now. Its good for player development and promotion and this compensates for the chance of a player getting injured. Maybe you can provide salary cap relief for clubs that contribute players.

This is my attempt at knock-out format:

First year clubs ranked by amount of players in AFL

WEEK 1
Victoria (1st) v.s Queensland (4th) Semi Final 1 (vics win)
Western A (2nd) v.s South A (3rd) Semi Final 2 (SA win)

New South Wales (5th) v.s Tasmania (6th) QUALIFIER 1 (nsw win)

WEEK 2
Queensland (4th) v.s New South Wales (5th) QUALIFIER 2 (nsw win)
As qld were 4th and lost, they play winner of Qualifier 1. Winner move to fourth and play the 1st ranked (final winner) in SEMI 1 next year. Loser plays in Qualifier next year, ranked 5th.

Victoria (1st) v.s South Australia (3rd) FINAL
Final. Winner is champion of the Universe etc.

(Not sure if WA should play Tassie as an Exhibition match)

So the next year would look like this:

WEEK 1
Victoria (1st) v.s New South Wales (4th) SEMI FINAL 1 (nsw win )
South Aus (2nd) v.s West Aus (3rd) SEMI FINAL 2 (wa win)

Queensland (5th) v.s Tasmania (6th) QUALIFIER 1 (qld win)

WEEK 2
South Aus (3rd) v.s Queensland (5th) (SA win) QUALIFIER 2
Because 4th-ranked NSW won, the next lowest ranked semi-finalist, SA play winner of Qualifier 1 to keep thier semi spot.

Western Australia (2nd) v.s New South Wales (4th) FINAL (nsw win )

----------------------------------------------

So top 4 each year can win it, bottom 2 must earn thier spot against lowest ranked loser of the top 4.

NT merge with Queensland (screw em, thier not a state anyway )

Has to be the one week promotion/relegation thing.

Also, there has to be the following teams:

Victoria (NO SPLIT BETWEEN RURAL AND METRO, absolutely essential.)
South Australia
Western Australia
Queensland
Northern Territory
Tasmania
New South Wales
ACT.

8 teams, 4 matches.

Sides liek the ACT, and in some years Tasmania and NT will not be able to fill a team with AFL players. This is irrelevant, as state-level players can fill the gaps, much like how SOO used to be.

We still see the best, its a real SOO competition, its manageable, and every team means something. None of this Allies/ NSWACT, QLDNT/ Vic Metro/ All stars concept. Every team is meaningful. Every Australian is represented.

Its also a great way to develop the game in markets like Tasmania and the ACT without actually giving them an unviable AFL team. Plus, it adds a completely new dimension to footy in NSW and QLD, as well as appeasing the traditional heartlands of VIC, SA and WA.

There is absolutely no reason why this cant work. No issue is close to being insurmountable. The addition it will bring to our game is invaluable. So it is no surprise that the AFL aren’t even contemplating it.

Vic, SA, WA would work. Play 1 team home, 1 team away.

Vic v SA
WA v Vic
SA v WA

Simple as that. Top 2 teams play off in a Grand Final.

The only problem is with the days its played on. You need 4 games in the space of 2 weeks. Also the rest won't get to play.

3 weeks, to be played before the AFL season.

States ranked 1>6. (You know how)

First season like this:
1. Victoria
2. WA
3. SA
4. QLD
5. NSW
6. TAS

week 1
TOP 4 SEMI 1 - VIC v.s WA - vic win (vic go straight to final, wa go to preliminary)
TOP 4 SEMI 2 - SA v.s QLD - sa win (sa go to preliminary, qld Top 4 qualifier 2)

TOP 4 QUALIFIER - NSW v.s TAS - nsw win (nsw go to Top 4 qualifier 2, tas eiminated)


week 2
PRELIMINARY - WA v.s SA - sa win (go to final, loser eliminated)

TOP 4 QUALIFIER 2 - QLD v.s NSW - nsw win (move to top 4 next year, qld drops out of top 4 next year)

week 3
FINAL - VIC v.s SA



I have used the Top 4 system that the AFL used to use years ago.

eg. 1v2, 3v4. Winner of the former goes to GF, loser plays winner of the latter the next week. Winner of that match goes to GF.

Winner 5v6 would play loser of 3v4 for a chance to make the Top 4 the next year. (only top 4 states can win the FINAL each year)
I'm sure you could work out the rankings for the next season following my example?

Top 4 States play at least 2 matches, only the worst state plays one. I cant see a problem with personally.

Anyone? (Dont be afraid to ask questions if you are confused!)

Yes it's state football, but the players are rewarded by being selected to play at the highest level possible for state league players.

It's probably not a big step for SA to intro SoO rules if they wanted to as the SANFL could instruct the two SANFL AFL-based clubs to make their players available for selection if they desired it. However this means that the Crows and Power would be seriously disadvantaged over the round that the game would be played, and even worse if a player copped an injury. The other problem of course is that the VFL and WAFL can not make the same call on their state based AFL clubs so this would make it a bit more one sided than it already is.

So that puts SoO back squarely on the AFL. The SoO formula has waxed and wanned over the years largely depending on where it was played and who the opponent was. Clearly SA v Vic & WA v Vic were the two biggies when played in the two smaller states. The rules of SoO always tended to favour SA & WA as it meant they could front up with a good portion of players well adjusted to the VFL game and they were able to inflict some damage on the Big V. However for the Vics it was always more team mate against team mate and the state division was blurred to the followers of VFL and hence they approached it with less vigor and apart from some notable exceptions like Ted Whitten, most VFL teams saw the likelihood of injury to VFL players as a bigger risk than the glory of the contest.

Is there a solution to SoO? I think the solution is this. I think the AFL got it right by having only one game, but I think we can get a far more interesting game if we were to widen the current state based competition to include Qld, NSW, TAS, ACT and NTwith these states given access to their AFL listed players in these contests.

This should have an even impact across the AFL including WA, SA, Swans and Lions as it is curently a 10/6 club split, Vic/Outside Vic. Once this has been played and decided during the season a combined side is chosen from the SANFL, WAFL, VFL, TAS, QFL, NSWFL, NTFL, ACTFL the coach selected from one of the big three leagues, SANFL, WAFL or VFL, and this team gets to play against a combined AFL team at the end of the season. From this contest the All Australian team is selected. Eight team comp and seeded. 1 SA, 2 WA, 3 VFL, 4 TAS:

Round 1

SANFL V NSWFL
WAFL V QFL
VFL V NTFL
TFL V ACTFL

Round 2

SANFL V VFL
WAFL V TAS

Final

SANFL V WAFL

Combined States Representative: Any player that is eligible to play state league finals in their state league competition whether AFL listed or not.


Combined States Vs AFL ---------------(All Australian Team)

What do you think?

ACT would get thumped in triple figures, except perhaps by Tas; but what the hell, why not have them?

Either played once every few years, or one round a year.

All 8 states/territories. Internationals play in the first state/territory they became a registered player.

Div 1
Vic
WA
SA
Qld

Div2
NT
NSW
Tas
ACT

Round One
Game A : 1 v 4 - Vic v Qld
Game B : 2 v 3 - WA v SA
Game C : 5 v 8 - NT v ACT
Game D : 6 v 7 - NSW v Tas

Round Two (This is where I strike trouble)
Game E : GameA Loser v GameB Loser
Game F : Div2 Final - GameC Winner v GameD Winner

Round Three
Game F : Final - GameA Winner v GameB Winner
Game G : Qualifier - Game E Loser v Game F Winner; Winner becomes the 4th ranked side, and goes into Division One next time


or

Round One
Game A : 1 v 4 - Vic v Qld
Game B : 2 v 3 - WA v SA
Game C : 5 v 8 - NT v ACT
Game D : 6 v 7 - NSW v Tas

Round Two (This is, again, where I strike trouble)
Game E : Final - GameA Winner v GameB Winner
Game F : Qualifier - GameA Loser v Game D Winner, winner to Div1
Game G : Qualifier - GameB Loser v Game C Winner, winner to Div1
optional game H : LoserC v LoserD

Like the Davis Cup, if any State/Territory that played theirr opponent at home last time, plays away next time.

What about this for an idea...

Four teams - VIC, SA, WA, Aboriginal All-Stars?

I know some Aboriginals live in VIC, SA and WA but I know that they wouldn't sherk at the oppotunity to represent their Aboriginal community.

This way we get to watch the traditional state teams fight it out again with the excitement of the Aboriginal team.

Easy format of two games a year, with the winners playing each other playing the following year.

Too please the crowd, NSW can play QLD (traditional rivals). It leaves Tassie in the cold but who could they play? Maybe three way rotating between QLD, NSW and TAS - winner stays on method.

Make it every 4 or 5 years. Three weeks.
DIV 1 SA VS VIC, WA V SA, VIC VS WA.
DIV 2 NSW/ACT VS QLD, NT VS TAS, QLD VS NT, TAS VS NSW/ACT, QLD VS TAS, NSW/ACT VS NT.

An all Australian team is named after the rounds an

how about this...

8 states....

#1 VIC
#2 SA
----------
#3 WA
#4 TAS
----------
#5 NT
#6 NSW
----------
#7 QLD
#8 ACT

every year the top ranked team of the four pairs gets to host the lower ranked team of the pair (eg. VIC hosts SA and WA hosts TAS etc). the winner goes up and the loser goes down (eg VIC beat SA and WA beat TAS so next year VIC play WA and SA plays the winner of NT and NSW). this way we get 4 SOO games, every state is represented, lower ranked teams will usually play each other and no players are prevented the opportunity to play SOO for their state. i think it is a good idea. i would rather watch QLD play the ACT than watch the mickey mouse game we had tonight.

 

[western jester]

See what state of origin does? As soon as you start talking about it, a race riot starts burning out of control.
Why can't we let the concept die a dignified death, throw some flowers on the coffin, kick some sand in the grave and f*#k off to pub to watch a home and away match?

 

[Azzballz Deluxe]

See what state of origin does? As soon as you start talking about it, a race riot starts burning out of control.
Why can't we let the concept die a dignified death, throw some flowers on the coffin, kick some sand in the grave and f*#k off to pub to watch a home and away match?

As long as you concede that Victoria will always be far more superior than WA at AR

 

[Paddy_Mac]

How 'bout Victoria vs Dream Team held every 4 years.
The match yesterday showed that Victoria are too dominant against the other states on their own.

 

[genghiskhan]

How 'bout Victoria vs Dream Team held every 4 years.
The match yesterday showed that Victoria are too dominant against the other states on their own.

In any sport, composite sides representing the "rest of..." never perform well. Maybe the problem is that they aren't experienced playing together so team work skills are low. Alternatively, perhaps they have low motivation because they aren't playing for anything. Lets not forget that Victoria were playing for their state in front of their home crowd. What was the Dream team playing for?

 

[jpdixon]

In any sport, composite sides representing the "rest of..." never perform well. Maybe the problem is that they aren't experienced playing together so team work skills are low. Alternatively, perhaps they have low motivation because they aren't playing for anything. Lets not forget that Victoria were playing for their state in front of their home crowd. What was the Dream team playing for?

In this case, the playing together factor applies pretty much equally to Victoria, but maybe the motivation and home ground are relevant. Anyway, if we're just basing things on last night, how different would it have been if just one player (Goodes) had been classified as SA rather than Vic?

More generally, I refuse to take any statements about Vic being too dominant for any other state seriously, at least until I can no longer say that they were beaten by NSW last time the two states played.

 

[Paddy_Mac]

What was the Dream team playing for?

They were playing for pride, for themselves, the team, the fans, the trophy and so on.

 

[Professor Knowall]

In any sport, composite sides representing the "rest of..." never perform well. Maybe the problem is that they aren't experienced playing together so team work skills are low. Alternatively, perhaps they have low motivation because they aren't playing for anything. Lets not forget that Victoria were playing for their state in front of their home crowd. What was the Dream team playing for?

Yes, fair points. On paper, the Dreamteam was the stronger side, but the Big V seemed more inspired on the night - most probably for the reasons you mentioned.

... Anyway, if we're just basing things on last night, how different would it have been if just one player (Goodes) had been classified as SA rather than Vic?...

Why? Just because he was born in SA?
FTR - Goodes represented Sth Australia in soccer in Under 12 then Under 14 rep level. But - he never played any competitive Australian Football at all in Sth Australia.
Goodes moved to Mildura, Victoria at aged 11, and gave up soccer due to the constant racial abuse he copped, and first took up our game. He then moved to Horsham with his family and lived their until drafted by Sydney. He still holds a swag of athletic records at the Horsham SC and, of course, stood out in junior footy then the Ballarat Rebels (but still lived in Horsham).

So, by SOO rules, he's clearly Victorian.

 

[genghiskhan]

They were playing for pride, for themselves, the team, the fans, the trophy and so on.

As I said, these composite teams never go too well. It was the same as the rest of the world versus the Australian cricket team. On paper they looked good, in practice they were useless. You would think in professional sport that it shouldn't matter but in practice it seems that it does.

 

[cos789]

As I said, these composite teams never go too well.

Since both teams are composite this cancels out the advantage .
As predicted the games were more offensive orienated than
defensive orientated .

.

 

[Whispers]

Kennett sees things my way as well with an indigenous team..

Kennett said that should include a team from Tasmania - where the Hawks play four home games - and perhaps an indigenous side, with shortened knockout games ahead of a full length final.
"It may be that you have a real dream team which is made up of an Aboriginal side," he said.
"WeÕve got enough members from the indigenous community now, you might have trouble with a couple of positions, but your Northern Territory team for instance might be a team of indigenous players.
"I think that would be fascinating."

 

[genghiskhan]

Kennett sees things my way as well with an indigenous team..

Kennett said that should include a team from Tasmania - where the Hawks play four home games - and perhaps an indigenous side, with shortened knockout games ahead of a full length final.
"It may be that you have a real dream team which is made up of an Aboriginal side," he said.
"WeÕve got enough members from the indigenous community now, you might have trouble with a couple of positions, but your Northern Territory team for instance might be a team of indigenous players.
"I think that would be fascinating."

Kennet isn't thinking. He wants to be entertained and bugger the consequences.

I couldn't give a stuff if every man, his dog and the pope agreed with you. Racially based teams are not the way to go in a multi-racial country such as ours.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Since both teams are composite this cancels out the advantage .
As predicted the games were more offensive orienated than
defensive orientated .

Yes and no. they were composite in that they came from many clubs. the Vics, however, had something to play for. The DT were simply some nebulous "other", which must make it much harder to find any reason to be there.

 

[Jascave]

My ideas for State of Origin footy:

1) Make it a carnival (ie footy's version of the Olympics) where a carnival would be held every four years, in the mid-season period.

2) Every state & territory would be represented.

3) Re-introduce the Tassie Medal for the best player of the carnival.

4) Have the Under 18 National Championships, the Under 23 Australian Amateur Football Championships & the International Cup played at the same time as the AFL State of Origin Carnival Series-in other words, a footy bonaza.

5) Every game in the AFL State of Origin Series will count as a official AFL match-not exhibition games like last Saturday night's match at the MCG.

 

[Whispers]

"I HAVE A DREAM" - GARRY LYON

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/afl/thestars/index.php/heraldsun/comments/i_have_a_dream

Lyon's view is exactly the same as my view. The excitement factor and the true meaning of playing for passion. I know you guys don't like it that much but there seems to be increasing support.

 

[genghiskhan]

"I HAVE A DREAM" - GARRY LYON

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/afl/thestars/index.php/heraldsun/comments/i_have_a_dream

Lyon's view is exactly the same as my view. The excitement factor and the true meaning of playing for passion. I know you guys don't like it that much but there seems to be increasing support.

Emotion without reason once more. Emotion without considering the consequences. There are plenty of examples where you can see the inevitable consequences of your approach, but it seems when emotion is involved, some individuals will act like a sheep and justify their actions on the grounds other people feel the same way.

Maybe if Lyon has a son, we can assign him to an all-English team and he can give us a performance of pork pie making as he affirms support for his culture.

 

[Speck]

An idea:

First Division:
1st ranked team to play the winner of the 2nd and 3rd ranked teams.

Second Division:
4th ranked team to play the winner of the 5th and 6th ranked teams.

If you win the first division, you are the 1st ranked team for the next season. If you lose the 2nd and 3rd team playoff, you will become the 4th ranked team for the next season, with them to be replaced by the winner of the second division. The first playoffs 1/3 into the season, second playoffs 2/3 into the season.