Expansion Making State of Origin work

[genghiskhan]

Ok , on condition .

That it is a separate thread . (We don't want to bore people any longer)
With a neutral title ."is there any place for non homogenious teams"
That you keep to a logical debate with no abuse .
Fair enough ?

.

No. This thread will do. The purpose of these questions is to discuss whether negative consequences would flow from having an Aboriginal All-Star team playing in the an AFL State of Origin.

You say no. I say yes. I base my opinion on experiences in South Africa and New Zealand, consideration of the history that followed the Aboriginal cricket team that toured England in 1868, consideration of the performance of the old NSL, observation of behaviour on Bay 13, and an awarness that Australia is a multi-racial society in which people need to work together.

If you put forward a reasoned argument and refrain from childish behaviour, I will not abuse you in any way. You might even persuade me and I will think racially based teams are the way of the future, but that is unlikely.

 

[cos789]

The purpose of these questions is to discuss whether negative consequences would flow from having an Aboriginal All-Star team playing in the an AFL State of Origin.

IMO , No , since the push is coming from the players themselves .
There is already in existance non homgenious teams running around .
The Peres peace team is good example .
Aboriginal Allstar teams have represented Australia against the RSA .
One reason was to show that Australian Football historically and
currently owes a lot to indigenous players .
These are one-offs , not leagues .
Are there any negative consequences to running an all aboriginal
rl league in country NSW ?

.

 

[genghiskhan]

IMO , No , since the push is coming from the players themselves .
There is already in existance non homgenious teams running around .
The Peres peace team is good example .
Aboriginal Allstar teams have represented Australia against the RSA .
One reason was to show that Australian Football historically and
currently owes a lot to indigenous players .
These are one-offs , not leagues .
Are there any negative consequences to running an all aboriginal
rl league in country NSW ?

.

You didn't answermy questions in regards to the Aboriginal cricket team, the A-league or your expectations of Bay 13 posters. In answer to your points,

1) The push coming from players

It is a perfectly natural human emotion to want to segregate yourself from others, and express pride in your own kind. People have been doing that from before the dawn of time. In the world today; however, it is an emotion that must be overcome. It is more difficult to be with others who are different, it is more difficult to experience cultural change, and its more difficult to be an environment where everyone is different from each other. Even though it is more difficult, unless Australia suddenly becomes monoracial and desires not to mix with the rest of the world, it is the difficult road that individuals must choose. If they choose the easy road, those who can see the problem with the choice need to encourage them to choose the other road.

2) Aborigines are one of many groups that have made a contribution to the development of AFL and the game itself. It is not necessary to give each of them a state of origin team to respect that contribution.

3) The one-offs you speak off don't cause many negative consequences because they are exhibition games. State of Origin is more than a series of exhibition games. Likewise, the games against South Africa are not so bad because they are not pitting Aborigines against other Australians. That said, they undermine the very reason why the South African governemnt has a favourable attitude to Aussie rules. They want a sport that can bridge the social divide and the best way to demonstrate that is with diverse Australians representing Australia.

 

[cos789]

You didn't answermy questions in regards to the Aboriginal cricket team, the A-league or your expectations of Bay 13 posters. In answer to your points,

No , I'm not interested in cricket , the AL or bay13 .

It is a perfectly natural human emotion... and express pride in your own kind. .

Common good Vs self . valid point .

Aborigines are one of many groups that have made a contribution to the development of AFL and the game itself. It is not necessary to give each of them a state of origin team to respect that contribution.

Not neccessary , but a nice gesture is the other side of the coin .

The one-offs you speak off don't cause many negative consequences because they are exhibition games. State of Origin is more than a series of exhibition games.

Valid point if it where in fact to be a continuation .
At this point , we haven't even reached this point .

Likewise, the games against South Africa are not so bad because they are not pitting Aborigines against other Australians.

Ok .

They want a sport that can bridge the social divide and the best way to demonstrate that is with diverse Australians representing Australia.

Now that the RSA has developed it's talent , Australia has sent full
Australian teams over there .

I can see that you appear to be genuine oposition to continuing divisions .
So the that aboriginal rl league in country NSW would have to be
close to you worst case scanario I would guess?

.

 

[richo1982]

Not neccessary , but a nice gesture is the other side of the coin .


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What it not also be a nice gesture to make up a team of our best players with greek, italian, irish, english, german heritage etc??? Or do you favour celebrating one racial groups contribution more than anothers?

That is what this debate boils down to and its a question you seem to struggle giving a straight answer to.

 

[TigerCraig]

I can see that you appear to be genuine oposition to continuing divisions .
So the that aboriginal rl league in country NSW would have to be
close to you worst case scanario I would guess?

.

Again, the reason for the Aboriginal rugby league was that the teams were being expelled and refused registration with the existing country leagues.

 

[newbee]

Again, the reason for the Aboriginal rugby league was that the teams were being expelled and refused registration with the existing country leagues.

So rich1982 do you have a problem this league
given the explanation ?

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[richo1982]

So rich1982 do you have a problem this league
given the explanation ?

.

If you read what I have said I have never passed judgment on this league and don't wish to now since I still (as I have previously stated) know nothing about this league!

 

[cos789]

If you read what I have said I have never passed judgment on this league and don't wish to now since I still (as I have previously stated) know nothing about this league!

Ok , it's a one racial group's exculsive rl league .

What more do you want to know ?

.

 

[rotto]

Make it every 4 or 5 years. Three weeks.
DIV 1 SA VS VIC, WA V SA, VIC VS WA.
DIV 2 NSW/ACT VS QLD, NT VS TAS, QLD VS NT, TAS VS NSW/ACT, QLD VS TAS, NSW/ACT VS NT.

An all Australian team is named after the rounds an

 

[genghiskhan]

Again, the reason for the Aboriginal rugby league was that the teams were being expelled and refused registration with the existing country leagues.

I don't know much about this league either.

why were they expelled and refused registration?

Are non-Aborigines forbidden from playing in the league or is it that Aborigines dominate the league to the extent its called an Aboriginal league?

 

[richo1982]

Ok , it's a one racial group's exculsive rl league .

What more do you want to know ?

.

Go back and read my posts since it appears you haven't read any

 

[cos789]

Go back and read my posts since it appears you haven't read any

Look , you and gengiscan't have played the racist card .
It's over . Go troll some other thread .

.

 

[richo1982]

you would prefer we just left you alone to come up with your discriminatory ideas in peace hey? you are the one trolling here and acting like a tool! you kept pretending that u were asking all these hard questions that no one could answer when YOU were and still are it seems incapable of answering tough questions because you know they expose your idea for what it is, absolute racist hypocritical garbage!

 

[genghiskhan]

you would prefer we just left you alone to come up with your discriminatory ideas in peace hey? you are the one trolling here and acting like a tool! you kept pretending that u were asking all these hard questions that no one could answer when YOU were and still are it seems incapable of answering tough questions because you know they expose your idea for what it is, absolute racist hypocritical garbage!

You are right. We responded to a race-based selection plan. We did not initiate it.

He demands me answer on the rugby league competition even though we know nothing about it. He gets his answer but refuses to answer the questions in kind.

Would he support an anglo Origin team?

Was the racial defined identities of old NSL clubs good for the code and people involved?

Did a the first Aboiginal cricket team that toured England and gave performances of bommerang throwing, help the cause of Aborigines in cricket.

Very very simple to give some answers, but answers he refuses.

 

[richo1982]

OMG cos769 I knew u were a bit of a wan#er but no idea just how much of a looser u were! just went thru your posts and saw u have been stalking genghiskan about this ABO RL comp lol and accusing him of not answering questions when u haven't answered one damn question yourself!

 

[genghiskhan]

Look , you and gengiscan't have played the racist card .
It's over . Go troll some other thread .

.

I was prepared to let you get away with not answering these questions about the A-league, Bay 13, and the Aboriginal cricket team in order to let you have face. You seemed to have learnt your lesson and there was no need to humiliate if you had changed. However, your rudeness has returned and it seems you have learnt nothing at all. You've still got your blindfold on to preserve your 1860s ideology.

 

[TigerCraig]

I don't know much about this league either.

why were they expelled and refused registration?

Are non-Aborigines forbidden from playing in the league or is it that Aborigines dominate the league to the extent its called an Aboriginal league?

The league is called the Aboriginal Nations Super League. Anyone can register and play with the clubs - you do not have to be aboriginal, but most players are.

The league came about because clubs such as Moree Boomerangs were having major disciplinary issues, to the extent where referees wouldn't turn up and other teams just forfeited. The country leagues just told them to clear off.

Apparently they are having issues getting access to grounds from councils now

 

[genghiskhan]

The league is called the Aboriginal Nations Super League. Anyone can register and play with the clubs - you do not have to be aboriginal, but most players are.

The league came about because clubs such as Moree Boomerangs were having major disciplinary issues, to the extent where referees wouldn't turn up and other teams just forfeited. The country leagues just told them to clear off.

Apparently they are having issues getting access to grounds from councils now

Seems like bad management all round. If you can't control your players or fans you can expect punishment, or the threat of it. We saw that with the Eagles in the AFL, the Bulldogs in the NRL and English soccer. Maybe a outright ban was too tough though.

I have some respect for responding to being kicked out by making their own league. That said, it was silly defining their new league as an Aboriginal league. They've have limited their potential by not taking a more inclusive approach.

 

[cos789]

just went thru your posts and saw u have been stalking genghiskan about this ABO RL comp lol and accusing him of not answering questions when u haven't answered one damn question yourself!

As i said , if you are serious , start a thread .
1. with nuetral heading
2. no abuse
3. logical debate .

gengis finally answered my question that he had been dodging .
He finally answered a simple question with a simple answer.
It was a consistant reply with valid points .
I don't see why he could not have answered iin the first place .
I answered his questions that were relevant .
The ones that I didn't answer , I do not have an interest in or are knowledgeable about . gengis acknowledged that .

If I dissapoint you by not joining in on your racist phishing troll .
trying paranrleel . He openly supports the idea of these teams .


.

 

[cos789]

In fact go straight to "Why don't Sydney NRL fans go to games "
and you'll find Auckmal and parafeel who are dead set all for
these games that you two are so dead set against .

Good luck !

 

[cos789]

I was prepared to let you get away with not answering these questions about the A-league, Bay 13, and the Aboriginal cricket team in order to let you have face.

All I know is that the Glory is going down and there are two new
teams in Sydney and Melbourne . I don't follow soccer .
I not interested in soccer . I fall asleep watching soccer .
I fall asleep talking about soccer .
I am only slightly more interested in cricket .
I totally not interested in the BS on bay13 .
No I would'nt love to debate you on this topic ,
where normally I love a good debate .But I will if you insist .
You know my conditions ..

If you want to debate with someone who has opposing views to you
I suggest you go to the above mentioned thread .

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

I haven't read all this yet, but some of the questions raised in here are answered in this thread about the Aboriginal comp.

http://www.totalrl.com/fansforum/index.php?showtopic=32211

Let me know if you have any problems accessing the site, I'll copy the news reports and paste them here.

 

[genghiskhan]

I haven't read all this yet, but some of the questions raised in here are answered in this thread about the Aboriginal comp.

http://www.totalrl.com/fansforum/index.php?showtopic=32211

Let me know if you have any problems accessing the site, I'll copy the news reports and paste them here.

I've just done some research and the whole thing is a shambles. The Aborigines are having trouble getting sponsorship and access to grounds so feel like they are victims of discrimination, and like Super League, the rugby league community is divided.

This goes back to the days of the ARL when it tried to spruik up its "world" creditials by encouraging players to play for the country of their ancestors in the world cups and its 7s tournaments. Before the ARL came along with their "Lebonese" teams, there weren't huge troubles with Lebonese gangs. Maybe it is a co-incidence, but maybe one caused the other.

 

[Aucklander]

In fact go straight to "Why don't Sydney NRL fans go to games "
and you'll find AuckMel and para who are dead set all for
these games that you two are so dead set against .

Good luck !

Yep, I'm a great believer in the right of the indigenous people of New Zealand to represent themselves if they so wish.

In fact maori sports carnivals are a major sporting event in their own right in NZ.

Can't see the issue in it really. It's only sport after all.