Matchday 36

[Zidane98]

That settles it pretty much.

 

[SM]

Weird because I've heard numerous mentions of this being Chelsea's 4th premier league title, which it is.

 

[Shoei]

Actually:



The FA Premier League is only 'commercially independent,' which allows the Premier League to set up their own TV deals. The FA still owns the Premier League, because the FA Premier League Ltd is owned by the FA.

In a tree, you have the FA at the top, and then you have branches; the Premier League, responsible for the English Top Tier; And the Football League, only now responsible for the next three divisions (Note to SM: There was a Football League Fourth Division before it disappeared in name). There's also the Conference and Regional leagues as well, but that's not the focus.

The division in question may be new, but in the eyes of the FA, it is a continuation of the old Division 1. The stats that are promoted, such as Alan Shearer being the top scorer of the Premier League, is a brand orientated stat associated with the Premier League. The division itself is nothing more than a marketing tool designed to bring in the coin that would make English clubs more competitive in the European scene. When you're promoting your new awesome division, you're obviously going to use the stats since 1992 to but further emphasis.

This creates this weird thing, where we have 'Alan Shearer is the Premier League's top PL scorer,' yet we also have 'Chelsea won their 5th title and Man Utd's 20th title.' I've never heard 'Man Utd's 13th or Chelsea's 4th' before. Heck, I hear people call Blackburn's title their 3rd.

Basically put, both cases of statistics are valid, though I would prefer using the all-time first tier stats (Because seriously, why is acceptable to say Newcastle have never lost 8 in a row since 1977, but not acknowledge the number of goals Ian Wright got in his career?) Though do note that in the eyes of the FA, and in the spirit of the law, the Premier League is the same as the First Division pre-1992.

This isn't Cricket South Africa where it can just not acknowledge the existence of its past players and records (Graham Pollock? Who the hell is that?). This is The FA, and they acknowledge all the records of the first tier (though for commercial purposes, the awesome league stats start in 1992).

No.

The Premier League is a Corporation owned by its 20 members. The FA has a share in the corporate body but they do not/cannot dictate to the other shareholder (the clubs) what they can and cannot do individually. The FA can veto certain aspects but the Premier league controls its own running. This is why the Premier league has a general meeting each year, its own elected Chairman and board of directors.

You can use whatever stats you want.

The FA and Premier league clearly differentiate between the two.

 

[Benno_900]

Yes, Blackburn have won more PL titles than Liverpool.

Fact.

 

[Fryer Tuck]

No.

The Premier League is a Corporation owned by its 20 members. The FA has a share in the corporate body but they do not/cannot dictate to the other shareholder (the clubs) what they can and cannot do individually. The FA can veto certain aspects but the Premier league controls its own running. This is why the Premier league has a general meeting each year, its own elected Chairman and board of directors.

You can use whatever stats you want.

The FA and Premier league clearly differentiate between the two.

As part of The FA Premier League Ltd, yes, it is. Do note that this also applies to the Football League Ltd (in which like the PL, operates in a similar manner) and the Football Conference Ltd. They are run in a similar manner, vote on their issues, but ultimately, the final say is the FA. Like the Queen or Governor-General sort of deal. The FA ultimately controls all branches, they just give the task to the relevant parties.

One other little thing that isn't mentioned above is that the FA has to approve of any changes made by the PL20. It can veto the change if it wants to. Ultimately, the Premier League was created by the FA, with the intention to be a continuation of the English First Tier. The FA's word and intention is the most important bit.

So yes, you can have your Premier League stats, and your First Tier stats. Use whatever suits your fancy.

Weird because I've heard numerous mentions of this being Chelsea's 4th premier league title, which it is.

Up until Jatz said it was Chelsea's 4th, I've seen nothing otherwise.

 

[Shoei]

As part of The FA Premier League Ltd, yes, it is. Do note that this also applies to the Football League Ltd (in which like the PL, operates in a similar manner) and the Football Conference Ltd. They are run in a similar manner, vote on their issues, but ultimately, the final say is the FA. Like the Queen or Governor-General sort of deal. The FA ultimately controls all branches, they just give the task to the relevant parties.

One other little thing that isn't mentioned above is that the FA has to approve of any changes made by the PL20. It can veto the change if it wants to. Ultimately, the Premier League was created by the FA, with the intention to be a continuation of the English First Tier. The FA's word and intention is the most important bit.

So yes, you can have your Premier League stats, and your First Tier stats. Use whatever suits your fancy.



Up until Jatz said it was Chelsea's 4th, I've seen nothing calling this Chelsea's 4th.

No it doesn't. No they don't.

That's not how a Corporation works at all.

There is so much wrong in that post that I seriously cant be ****ed with this anymore.

Believe whatever you want. Call it whatever you want.

 

[Zidane98]

No it doesn't. No they don't.

That's not how a Corporation works at all.

There is so much wrong in that post that I seriously cant be stuffed with this anymore.

Believe whatever you want. Call it whatever you want.

He's right. The FA has veto power over how the PL is run and who the directors are.

 

[Fryer Tuck]

No it doesn't. No they don't.

That's not how a Corporation works at all.

There is so much wrong in that post that I seriously cant be stuffed with this anymore.

Believe whatever you want. Call it whatever you want.

Well unless my information is not correct, I know The FA does have veto over rule changes as well. Any changes to the PL rule books must be approved by the FA, or else it is not happening. http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2012/feb/29/football-association-reform-premier-league http://www.theguardian.com/football/2011/oct/19/harry-redknapp-tottenham-europa-league (Exactly the sort of thing the veto power can do, stop the PL clubs from keeping the wealth to themselves like this)

14 out of the 20 clubs may approve of a rule change, but unless the FA approves of it, it isn't happening. They will keep the status quo if it does not agree with them. The FA having veto power on directors and rule changes would be in the Premier League Ltd's company constitution.

That said, the FA can't just merely demand things: http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/fo...s-VETO-Roy-Hodgson-s-plans-meet-England-stars In this case, it's not a rule change, so therefore The FA can't overrule the PL clubs' decision. They don't have the power to do so. Game 39 being a good example. Unless the clubs want Game 39, despite the FA's demands, it's not going to happen.

But whatever, we have our different beliefs, so let's move on...

 

[Shoei]

Well unless my information is not correct, I know The FA does have veto over rule changes as well. Any changes to the PL rule books must be approved by the FA, or else it is not happening. http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2012/feb/29/football-association-reform-premier-league http://www.theguardian.com/football/2011/oct/19/harry-redknapp-tottenham-europa-league (Exactly the sort of thing the veto power can do, stop the PL clubs from keeping the wealth to themselves like this)

14 out of the 20 clubs may approve of a rule change, but unless the FA approves of it, it isn't happening. They will keep the status quo if it does not agree with them. The FA having veto power on directors and rule changes would be in the Premier League Ltd's company constitution.

That said, the FA can't just merely demand things: http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/fo...s-VETO-Roy-Hodgson-s-plans-meet-England-stars In this case, it's not a rule change, so therefore The FA can't overrule the PL clubs' decision. They don't have the power to do so. Game 39 being a good example. Unless the clubs want Game 39, despite the FA's demands, it's not going to happen.

But whatever, we have our different beliefs, so let's move on...

Right. So you've just changed from saying the FA has complete control over the PL to "well it kinda doesn't".

The Premier league is not controlled by the FA. It works it conjunction with the FA.

As I said...i'm done with this too.

 

[Fryer Tuck]

Right. So you've just changed from saying the FA has complete control over the PL to "well it kinda doesn't".

The Premier league is not controlled by the FA. It works it conjunction with the FA.

As I said...i'm done with this too.

I never said completely controlled, I said ultimately controls. UEFA, FIFA, all that stuff... Still, they both need each other in order to promote the best of English football to the world and keep the coin coming in, that's what it comes down to.

And to think this started with John Terry scoring... always causes discussion one way or another...

Heh, at least I'm the Special One, and you're a-nah, I won't do that. Let's move on.

 

[jod23]

I enjoy that it's two Liverpool fans arguing against numerous supporters from numerous different clubs but claim the club they support has nothing to do with it.

I agree with the Liverpool fans.

Gulp. I kind of do too.

It may be a different competition but if I'm comparing records I'm just as interested in top flight pre-premier league as post.

Say what now SM

 

[SM]

Say what now SM

You mean those people who posted after me? Golly gosh I guess I didn't notice their posts.

 

[jod23]

You mean those people who posted after me? Golly gosh I guess I didn't notice their posts.

So you were making an assumption.

 

[SM]

So you were making an assumption.

No I was making a factual observation based on who had posted so far.

If you'll note, neither of the two non-Liverpool fans who supposedly agreed with you said anything different to the majority of us. That is, both the EPL and the First Division were equivalent leagues, and that using stats just from the EPL is deceptive if you want the full picture. The only point anyone has ever made in here is that it is accurate to say Chelsea have 4 PL titles, that Terry is the top-scoring PL defender, etc. That's not to rubbish First Division records, but to take a snapshot of the modern era.