Melbourne priority pick

[Omar Little]

Yes, but that also means everyone else is doing worse. In draft terms, and of course without any consideration as to how those draft picks eventually turned out.

Totally agree mate. But the teams at the bottom are gonna feel it more as they are trying to build their lists as opposed to topping up on talent. It will take them much longer to use the draft to be competitive and move back up the ladder. Without being able to secure the best young talent clubs like Melbourne, the bulldogs, Brisbane are all trying to rebuild with the best of what's left.

We won't see just how affected the competition has been by the expansion teams for some time yet. Were beginning to see it in Melbourne.

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

Aren't they already getting a gun F/S on top of pick #1/2?

They don't need a pp at all, their last two drafts will be gift wrapped.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

I see your point but I don not believe my point to be void. A poor team takes more than two drafts to significantly improve it's list. How long did it take Richmond and the dockers to sort our their lists? Id argue that we hadnt even bottomed out in those years. Also our number 1 draft pick for 09 was poached by an expansion team.

I don't believe we will see the true effects of the compromised drafts for a few years yet.

I don't buy the loss of Scully as a problem. Although taken as the first pick in 09, he will not turn out to be the best player. More to the point his loss has meant you gained Jesse Hogan who will be a better player for you. If I was a recruiter and was given a choice of the two, I would easily pick Hogan. So much upside there.

 

[YorshireSwan]

I see your point but I don not believe my point to be void. A poor team takes more than two drafts to significantly improve it's list. How long did it take Richmond and the dockers to sort our their lists? Id argue that we hadnt even bottomed out in those years. Also our number 1 draft pick for 09 was poached by an expansion team.

I don't believe we will see the true effects of the compromised drafts for a few years yet.

I do see your point as well but Fremantle finished just 2 spots high on the ladder then you (14th) in both those years (08/09) and with less draft picks and lower draft picks in the preceding years has now managed to build a top 4 list. Richmond has been the butt of all jokes for being competitive but continually finishing 9th not at the bottom end of the ladder. Both these teams have managed to at least build list that are competitive and shown improvement, to date Melbourne with substantially more and higher draft picks even in 'compromised' drafts has failed to show any improvement at all which I just find astounding considering the picks you had.

In my opinion the provision of another priority pick is futile, what you need is a total management and football department restructure (which it appears your getting finally) and the recruitment of quality mature aged players not 28-30yr old fringe players to assist in the development of that core group of talented players that you do have.

 

[gbatman]

yeah just let them have it, the gulf between pick 1 and pick 2 is pretty big now with the two extra teams and they are very uncompetitive, even though this is at the hands of their own mismanagement which continues to be a problem there.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

yeah just let them have it, the gulf between pick 1 and pick 2 is pretty big now with the two extra teams and they are very uncompetitive, even though this is at the hands of their own mismanagement which continues to be a problem there.

Gulf? I'm not sure about that. Some years, there may be a standout number one but nobody knows how they will develop. Scully was earmarked to be number one for two years before 09. He is clearly not the best player from that draft. Although Boyd is earmarked next year as the number one, Lennon, Aish, Billings, etc etc may become better players once their bodies have matured. I don't think it's that clear at all.

 

[LouisCK]

Aren't they already getting a gun F/S on top of pick #1/2?

They don't need a pp at all, their last two drafts will be gift wrapped.

You talking about Billy Stretch? He's bottom age (kicked 6 goals a few weeks ago from the wing) in SA, don't think he's eligible til the 2014 or 2015 draft.

 

[LouisCK]

Aren't they already getting a gun F/S on top of pick #1/2?

They don't need a pp at all, their last two drafts will be gift wrapped.

You talking about Billy Stretch? He's bottom age (kicked 6 goals a few weeks ago from the wing) in SA, don't think he's eligible til the 2014 or 2015 draft.

 

[LouisCK]

Yes but its not through lack of talent it through attitude both on and off the field that wont change by giving you another pick

Who cares what its from? As if you even know.

The point is the PP can be awarded when a club is showing a sustained lack of on field success. We are showing that. Why we are showing that isn't necessarily relevant, because if people stop going to games the AFL is going to step in with the PP to try and generate a bit of excitement about the future.

You actually don't need to be a genius to get this stuff. Your response is exactly the attitude I am talking about that everything is always someone else's fault. Every club has to deal with problems like sponsors leaving yet i dont here the bulldogs or port complaining blaming it for being poor performers and unless you are collingwood every club gets a dud deal with the draw and i wouldn't say yours has been drastically worse verses the other bottom 8 teams and it is definitely not why you are in the position your in.

You said that everything on my list was directly the fault of the MFC. I asked you to prove it, knowing full well you can't, now you're saying my attitude is the problem? Then you show a complete lack of understanding of our fixture (something you could just google!).

If you don't know a lot about a topic, you can just shut up and read, maybe learn a bit. Much better than shooting your mouth off and looking ignorant.

 

[LouisCK]

But the 08/09 drafts in which you drafted first round picks in Watts (1), Blease (PP17), Scully (PP1) & Trengrove (2) were not drafts that had the talent 'sucked' out of them. In these 2 years you had significantly more opportunity to choose high quality talent than any other club so it is in-fact your last point that is more relevant and your initial point is actually void because you had actually 'bottomed' out prior to the arrival of the expansion teams meaning if you managed your talent aquisition and development you should be in a much better position then teams like Bulldogs, Port and Brisbane who are the ones who really have struggled in those compromised drafts you mentioned.

Actually the Scully/Tregove draft was compromised by having the draft age raised that year (to coincide with GC's chance at teh draft being a 'bumper' crop as a result).

Its overall a pretty weak draft.

 

[estibador]

It took us 3-4 years of good drafting, and we had an extra pick to allow us to get Ballantyne at pick 21 (from memory).

Ballantyne wasn't an extra pick. He was taken with our normal 2nd round draft pick, which incidentally was pushed back two spots because Melbourne and the eagles were both given a PP that year.

Then Suban was drafted a few picks later with a pick Carlton traded us for Warnock.

 

[leeloo]

Can't see the AFL giving them one personally, and that's just an opinion. This year will be about helping Melbourne get their off field structure correct. Next year they may look at helping the on field issues if they are still occurring.

 

[Catsace]

Actually the Scully/Tregove draft was compromised by having the draft age raised that year (to coincide with GC's chance at teh draft being a 'bumper' crop as a result).

Its overall a pretty weak draft.

Can't really agree it was a weak draft for 2009. Geelong's players were Menzel (sadly with 4 knees he may never get back), premiership pair Christensen and Duncan and also Vardy. Another to be cruelled by injury is Josh Cowan, and he's had little opportunity to show his wares. 2008's draft agree, it wasn't the world's best although Beams was in the 20's I think. The early talls are at best promising, but that group 12-15 which includes Mitch Brown and Ayce Cordy have yet top establish themselves in 5 years. Motlop and Taylor Hunt though for Geelong are a solid pair.

It just goes to proper development.....maybe if the Dees can get their own reserves side like Geelong and Essendon do, and the Tigers and Pies will do and have a total club approach to the style and 'way' the Demons want to forge ahead with, then success can come your way. It does make a big difference if the reserves are playing one style of footy not consistent with the team goals and playing style of the senior side.

I still reckon that there is talent at the Dees.....the 'Baileyball' quick movement method was at least exciting even if downhill skiing, but grit and defence can be added to a group later on. The current Dees apart from the last quarter against GWS has been at best stolid and workmanlike, but with no polish, dare and excitement. Teams like the Pies, Freo, Hawthorn just batted the Dees away after some early pressure, but the side has players who can produce a lot more than that. Get a good and enthusiastic coach and your side will improve.

Ands lastly, yes the Dees should get a PP, it cannot hurt and the side needs to have some hope to sell to supporters and sponsors in the coming couple of years. As wrote in the tanking thread, and I even started a thread saying 'Do not punish the Dees'... effectively the karma bus gave the punishment for your club. A couple of years like 2012-13 is as bad as it can be for fans and club alike, so new start and new hope for the future is what i say.

 

[tigers_of_old_08]

Deserve ...... no way
Need ........... blood oath

Do this mob deserve anything ?

Apart from the predicament they're in at the moment? NO.

I'm filthy at the fact that the Demons aren't happy with the results of their senior coach, so they want to swap him for another one, AND expect the AFL to pay for it. What?? How the **** did they get away with that! Can you imagine if every AFL club changed their minds on the coach based on results and then expect the AFL to fund a new one? Where else in the business world does this happen??

Suck it up boys, that was your **** up so live with it for the duration of his contract. Or pay him out yourselves, just like Essendon and Carlton did.

Learn from your mistakes. Ill give you a tip, keep Garry Lyon AWAY from any executive decisions, and while you're at it, sack your entire board.

And priority picks to boot? You have got to be joking.

 

[estibador]

Can't really agree it was a weak draft for 2009. Geelong's players were Menzel (sadly with 4 knees he may never get back), premiership pair Christensen and Duncan and also Vardy. Another to be cruelled by injury is Josh Cowan, and he's had little opportunity to show his wares.

We did alright to get Fyfe at 20 too. And Melbourne had 4 picks before then...

2008's draft agree, it wasn't the world's best although Beams was in the 20's I think. The early talls are at best promising, but that group 12-15 which includes Mitch Brown and Ayce Cordy have yet top establish themselves in 5 years. Motlop and Taylor Hunt though for Geelong are a solid pair.

Certainly don't agree with that. 2008 was an absolute ripper draft and we pretty much built our current team on that one draft.

Hill
Ballantyne
Suban
Clarke
Walters
DeBoer
C. Pearce
Broughton (since traded)

 

[leeloo]

Ands lastly, yes the Dees should get a PP, it cannot hurt and the side needs to have some hope to sell to supporters and sponsors in the coming couple of years. As wrote in the tanking thread, and I even started a thread saying 'Do not punish the Dees'... effectively the karma bus gave the punishment for your club. A couple of years like 2012-13 is as bad as it can be for fans and club alike, so new start and new hope for the future is what i say.

Karma is the biggest load of crock!

I don't like your reasoning behind why they should get a PP, one player doesn't and shouldn't have the ability to sell to the supporters or sponsors. And in reality, they have Viney and Hogan who should be able to provide a fair amount of hope for the masses. Two young guns that the rest of the AFL teams would dream about.

I really think people are over reacting about Melbourne. Get a coach in who knows what they are doing and can work on the strengths of the players they have, can sell a game plan and it should be enough to get them going.

 

[YorshireSwan]

Who cares what its from? As if you even know.

The point is the PP can be awarded when a club is showing a sustained lack of on field success. We are showing that. Why we are showing that isn't necessarily relevant, because if people stop going to games the AFL is going to step in with the PP to try and generate a bit of excitement about the future.






You said that everything on my list was directly the fault of the MFC. I asked you to prove it, knowing full well you can't, now you're saying my attitude is the problem? Then you show a complete lack of understanding of our fixture (something you could just google!).

If you don't know a lot about a topic, you can just shut up and read, maybe learn a bit. Much better than shooting your mouth off and looking ignorant.

Maybe you can just accept that its no one else fault except the Melbourne Football Club that you are in the predicament that you are in and stop coming up with lame excuses.

 

[LouisCK]

Maybe you can just accept that its no one else fault except the Melbourne Football Club that you are in the predicament that you are in and stop coming up with lame excuses.

Maybe you should try knowing something before you post.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

I do see your point as well but Fremantle finished just 2 spots high on the ladder then you (14th) in both those years (08/09) and with less draft picks and lower draft picks in the preceding years has now managed to build a top 4 list. Richmond has been the butt of all jokes for being competitive but continually finishing 9th not at the bottom end of the ladder. Both these teams have managed to at least build list that are competitive and shown improvement, to date Melbourne with substantially more and higher draft picks even in 'compromised' drafts has failed to show any improvement at all which I just find astounding considering the picks you had.

In my opinion the provision of another priority pick is futile, what you need is a total management and football department restructure (which it appears your getting finally) and the recruitment of quality mature aged players not 28-30yr old fringe players to assist in the development of that core group of talented players that you do have.

That's pretty much right, however - no quality players will want to come to us, maybe ONE who's tempted by the money on offer.

No more though.

I think we still have some players with a lot of upside (those higher picks outside of 01-07) given proper development.

We don't need a PP, we need proper development structures.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Ballantyne wasn't an extra pick. He was taken with our normal 2nd round draft pick, which incidentally was pushed back two spots because Melbourne and the eagles were both given a PP that year.

Then Suban was drafted a few picks later with a pick Carlton traded us for Warnock.

Which year did we get the extra second round pick then?

 

[YorshireSwan]

Maybe you should try knowing something before you post.

I know enough

 

[estibador]

Which year did we get the extra second round pick then?

We've never had a 2nd round PP.

You might be thinking of that Crozier pick we got for losing Palmer to GWS.

 

[NUFC Tiger]

Yep. I was making a passing comment. More than one is plenty.

Whats your point?

I wouldn't agree that 2 since it was introduced is 'plenty' (only looked at 4 club's drafting history but wouldn't surprise me if most clubs didn't have 1 at least).

The point I was making is that we've received fewer than Melbourne and Carlton despite being worst for longer and you original post suggested they should get one 'due to being the worst club in the last 15 years'. Both of those teams have played more finals footy in 15 years than we have in 30.

I personally believe they shouldn't get one but if they do, then it should be on the condition it is traded for a mature player from another club.

 

[*PAF]

No more compensation picks, they've already had more than their fair share.

 

[the harry]

That's pretty much right, however - no quality players will want to come to us, maybe ONE who's tempted by the money on offer.

No more though.

I think we still have some players with a lot of upside (those higher picks outside of 01-07) given proper development.

We don't need a PP, we need proper development structures.

Regardless of what you need, you deserve a PP. If you don't given your performances for 5 years, why have the PP system at all?