Melbourne round 1

[av76]

Maybe if we had a player called Robinson...

Ooops...
However, I'm actually more concerned about who we will put on Aron Davies.

 

[rick James]

Ooops...
However, I'm actually more concerned about who we will put on Aron Davies.

that had better have been a joke.

 

[BlueWorld]

I dont think our midfield will get enough of it. If its 50/50 in there then we could well convert better but I think we have 5 midfielders and Melbourne has 7 to 8 and that will tell as the games goes on. In time on in quaters and in the last quater Melbourne will run away with it.
Melbourne have more class and there runners kick the ball better.

That depends on whether Houlihan & Betts play there (as they have throughout the pre-season AFAIK). May not be natural midfielders but we do need to rotate 7-8 there & don't have enough who can do that. We can't expect Kouta & Stevens to play 120 mins.

 

[mojo31]

That depends on whether Houlihan & Betts play there (as they have throughout the pre-season AFAIK). May not be natural midfielders but we do need to rotate 7-8 there & don't have enough who can do that. We can't expect Kouta & Stevens to play 120 mins.

Pretty reasonable comment and agree with it. I just do not think Houlihan and Betts are going to be quality midfielders up against big bodies. You could throw in half your team in a rotation to be honest but as far as I would think we have Kouta, Stevens and Scotland. Could extend it to Carrazzo and Bentick as 4th and 5th options.
Simpson is still a bit light and maybe better on the wing and same for Murphy. They could play in there for 20 or 30 minutes a game like Betts and Houlihan can but I do not think we have enough roatations and options to counter Melb. They have TJ, Sylvia, McLean, Moloney Jones (AFL ready body wise), Green, Bruce, and McDonald and can keep Yze forward and have Nathan Brown and Whelan as there small defenders. We have to likely sacrifice Carrazzo onto Davey but they dont have to move a mid out of there to cover for Betts or Houilhan.
They have better depth from 4 to 8. Better small defenders and White and Jamar to ruck who have the edge on French and McLaren.

Kouta - TJ
Stevens - Moloney
Scotland - Bruce
Carrazzo - Green
Simpson - Sylvia
Bentick- McLean
Houlihan - McDonald
Betts - Jones

20 minutes a quater we can match them but the last 10 we get run right over.

 

[Blues_Man]

Carmichael? um.. hi! I've never noticed you earlier, but no I wasn't banned for pwning that ex-mod for being an idiot, just suspended for swearing somewhere else on Bigfooty, it appears Bigfooty admin agreed with my thoughts on the very poor effort by Thrawn in that thread.

On topic, it wouldn't shock me if Carlton won.

Thrawn has more brains and credibility in his little finger than you have in your whole body ..you have been banned more times for being a brainless tosser than almost anyone on these boards ...as for your thoughts on the dees v Carlton ..who cares ? The Blues may just open up with a win this season ..they are playing one of the softest teams in the comp ..so the young kids shouldn't be too worried

 

[Thrawn]

but no I wasn't banned for pwning that ex-mod for being an idiot, just suspended for swearing somewhere else on Bigfooty, it appears Bigfooty admin agreed with my thoughts on the very poor effort by Thrawn in that thread.

Haha - you mean this?

Interesting. You didn't "pwn" anyone, and if I was being an idiot (which I was not), then that must make you an absolute git in that thread. And you can stop with the lying too. See, you were just being a smartarse, and the majority on that thread didn't seem to agree with you. So why would the admin? You had no coherent argument, and played the man - if you had an objection, fair enough. But it's stupid what you did, pre-season means squat all and most of it is premature excitement. I still stand by that, irrespective of your silly outburst (which was pretty much uncalled for).

So please, keep this crap off the board. At the end of the day it's insignificant BS, which made you look like a fool.

Now - as for the game coming up, I do think we're a slight chance, but Melbourne will be too strong for us. I expect a competitive hitout, win or lose. I am worried about our defense - Thornton looks to have gone backwards, Livo is no where to be seen, so Neitz and his pals might have a field day. Though I can see something if Fevola actually turns out to play, he might give them trouble.

I am particulary interested in Fisher and Waite performing. Walker too, as now is the season to perform - a lot of our "kids" are growing to that stage that they need to put in the performances to justify that potential we have labeled on them. If Houlihan can actually get a hard ball, that'll be a bonus.

 

[dirk pitt]

Pretty reasonable comment and agree with it. I just do not think Houlihan and Betts are going to be quality midfielders up against big bodies. You could throw in half your team in a rotation to be honest but as far as I would think we have Kouta, Stevens and Scotland. Could extend it to Carrazzo and Bentick as 4th and 5th options.
Simpson is still a bit light and maybe better on the wing and same for Murphy. They could play in there for 20 or 30 minutes a game like Betts and Houlihan can but I do not think we have enough roatations and options to counter Melb. They have TJ, Sylvia, McLean, Moloney Jones (AFL ready body wise), Green, Bruce, and McDonald and can keep Yze forward and have Nathan Brown and Whelan as there small defenders. We have to likely sacrifice Carrazzo onto Davey but they dont have to move a mid out of there to cover for Betts or Houilhan.
They have better depth from 4 to 8. Better small defenders and White and Jamar to ruck who have the edge on French and McLaren.

Kouta - TJ
Stevens - Moloney
Scotland - Bruce
Carrazzo - Green
Simpson - Sylvia
Bentick- McLean
Houlihan - McDonald
Betts - Jones

20 minutes a quater we can match them but the last 10 we get run right over.

Well the early mail is that Sylvia won't play. Bruce might, but won't be fit if he does. Surely that evens up the midfield battle?

I also think Walker could do the job on Robertson. He has the height and the leap to go with him in the air, and the pace to go with him on the lead, and the weight to hold his own in a wrestle. He has been giving everyone he plays on this preseason a bath so I reckon he would be up to the task.

Rivers also wont play so Waite will have a second string defender, so Fish will have a third string ... so pencil him in for about 12 marks already.

Bring in Livo to play on his bitch Neitz and hey presto... 4 points.

I reckon as long as Fev brings his kicking boots we will chaulk up a comfortable win.

Is it too kooky an idea to fight extreme pace with extreme pace by bringing in Russell specifically to tag Davey? He has bulked up over the off season, and he is faster than Simmo so if anyone can keep up with Davey it will be him.

He wouldn't have to do anything other than keeping Davey from running in 5 soft goals cause no one can keep up with him, but it would have the side benefit of releasing Carrazo back to the midfield which strenthens our midfield rotation.

 

[K.Simpson]

Carlton have a better and more potent forward line than Melbourne, have an equal midfield but our defence is the problem. Fevola, Waite, Fisher, O'hAlphin and DeLuca are far to potent for Melbourne's defence, especially with Rivers out.

The midfield is fairly even. Stevens Kouta Lappin Scotland and some of the young guns like Bentick Simpson Walk Murph and a suprise packet Houlihan can match it with McClean Bruce Green Sylvia Johnston Moloney. Although the Melbourne midfield has a bit more depth.

Carltons defence is the problem. Thornton Livingston Teague maybe Hartlett and Saddington and Lance. That wont be able to hold a Robertson. Any of the. Maybe a Cory McGrath will play on him, becasue we really have no one. Brad Miller is another we have to match for. He is a good mark and speedy. Neitz aint in good form which is a relief coz Thornton cannot match him.

The game will be won in the midfield. Which ever team uses the ball more efficiently will win the game, because both teams have good forward lines.

 

[audas]

Well the early mail is that Sylvia won't play. Bruce might, but won't be fit if he does. Surely that evens up the midfield battle?

I also think Walker could do the job on Robertson. He has the height and the leap to go with him in the air, and the pace to go with him on the lead, and the weight to hold his own in a wrestle. He has been giving everyone he plays on this preseason a bath so I reckon he would be up to the task.

Rivers also wont play so Waite will have a second string defender, so Fish will have a third string ... so pencil him in for about 12 marks already.

Bring in Livo to play on his bitch Neitz and hey presto... 4 points.

I reckon as long as Fev brings his kicking boots we will chaulk up a comfortable win.

Is it too kooky an idea to fight extreme pace with extreme pace by bringing in Russell specifically to tag Davey? He has bulked up over the off season, and he is faster than Simmo so if anyone can keep up with Davey it will be him.

He wouldn't have to do anything other than keeping Davey from running in 5 soft goals cause no one can keep up with him, but it would have the side benefit of releasing Carrazo back to the midfield which strenthens our midfield rotation.

Damm dark one. Who dares question the mojo ? Who steps from the shadows with such braveness ?
'Tis the dark one.
Good points, nice idea on Russell. (Blackwell ?)

Carlton 21points.

 

[dirk pitt]

Damm dark one. Who dares question the mojo ? Who steps from the shadows with such braveness ?
'Tis the dark one.
Good points, nice idea on Russell. (Blackwell ?)

Carlton 21points.

I wear many masks on many boards, but Blackwell from CSC isnt one of them.

Chins up sports fans. It is far far far too early in the season to think that we cant beat a half-arsed outfit like the Dees.

Blues by 32

 

[Go BlUez!!]

gona be a long year! blues will lose by 45 points

 

[mojo31]

Well the early mail is that Sylvia won't play. Bruce might, but won't be fit if he does. Surely that evens up the midfield battle?

I also think Walker could do the job on Robertson. He has the height and the leap to go with him in the air, and the pace to go with him on the lead, and the weight to hold his own in a wrestle. He has been giving everyone he plays on this preseason a bath so I reckon he would be up to the task.

Rivers also wont play so Waite will have a second string defender, so Fish will have a third string ... so pencil him in for about 12 marks already.

Bring in Livo to play on his bitch Neitz and hey presto... 4 points.

I reckon as long as Fev brings his kicking boots we will chaulk up a comfortable win.

Is it too kooky an idea to fight extreme pace with extreme pace by bringing in Russell specifically to tag Davey? He has bulked up over the off season, and he is faster than Simmo so if anyone can keep up with Davey it will be him.

He wouldn't have to do anything other than keeping Davey from running in 5 soft goals cause no one can keep up with him, but it would have the side benefit of releasing Carrazo back to the midfield which strenthens our midfield rotation.

Well it helps but its a bit early to know team selections yet. Carrazzo will be required down back I think and thats makes us light on. A half fit Bruce still is better than half of our options. What we dont have is there kicking skills Bruce, Green, TJ, Moloney. We would kill for that sort of kicking talent. Imagine Fev on the end of that.
Walker will get carved up by Robbo. He does not have the bodystrength to hold him yet. AW might look bigger but he wont be strong enough for a few years . Robbo is a gun and AW on him in the goal square would be a nightmare.

Add TJ to your list of outs (Sylvia and Bruce maybe) and we are a good chance.

 

[MeeSo]

I'm not expecting a win. Melbourne normally start the year strong and thrash a few average teams then fall apart later in the season. Pity it's not a must win game for Melbourne then we'd be in with a real chance.

 

[audas]

Well it helps but its a bit early to know team selections yet. Carrazzo will be required down back I think and thats makes us light on. A half fit Bruce still is better than half of our options. What we dont have is there kicking skills Bruce, Green, TJ, Moloney. We would kill for that sort of kicking talent. Imagine Fev on the end of that.
Walker will get carved up by Robbo. He does not have the bodystrength to hold him yet. AW might look bigger but he wont be strong enough for a few years . Robbo is a gun and AW on him in the goal square would be a nightmare.

Add TJ to your list of outs (Sylvia and Bruce maybe) and we are a good chance.

Mojo, our forwards are going to cause their defence headaches and vice-versa. Any chance of a high scoring shootout ?

 

[SurreyBlue]

I hope we don't play Walker on Robertson.
Robertson will not only drag him back to the goal square, but he will out body him at every contest and kill the kids confidence.
No it's either a leaner Teague or Sporn/Bannister.

 

[Chemical]

I just want Carlton to win. Failing that, a brawl.

 

[SurreyBlue]

I just want Carlton to win. Failing that, a brawl.

fight, fight, fight ..... the only problem will be that these "four wheel drive snags from Demon land" wouldn't be much of a contest in that are.

 

[mojo31]

Mojo, our forwards are going to cause their defence headaches and vice-versa. Any chance of a high scoring shootout ?

Forward lines look okay on both sides. They get more goals from there runners with Bruce and Green. There real edge is in there kicking. So many skilled players who can hit a forward and we only have 3 who I would like to see in the hands of (Houla, Stevens and Simpson).
So given an equal amount of opportunities I see Melb winning due to a better skill level. We will need to win pretty decisively in the centre square to take the game.

 

[murphster]

We have no matchup for Robertson. Nothing wrong with that. Hardly any team does to be honest and why he shredded plenty of teams last year. He is an elite player. Maybe Clement and Leo Barry would be good matchups for speed, athleticism and body strength but we have nobody remotely like that.

Just hear me out here, if we bring in Bannister who played well at the end of last year in defence for the Ants and give him the job on Robertson he has the speed the athleticism and not a bad leap he can either gain confidence by beating him or get thrashed but either way at least we will know were we stand in terms of Bannister for the rest of the season. IMO he may well do a good job and therefore gain the confidence he needs to play a regular role on players of Robertsons ilk, either way we lose nothing by trying it because as you said we don't have anyone else to match up on him anyway.

 

[murphster]

Pretty reasonable comment and agree with it. I just do not think Houlihan and Betts are going to be quality midfielders up against big bodies. You could throw in half your team in a rotation to be honest but as far as I would think we have Kouta, Stevens and Scotland. Could extend it to Carrazzo and Bentick as 4th and 5th options.
Simpson is still a bit light and maybe better on the wing and same for Murphy. They could play in there for 20 or 30 minutes a game like Betts and Houlihan can but I do not think we have enough roatations and options to counter Melb. They have TJ, Sylvia, McLean, Moloney Jones (AFL ready body wise), Green, Bruce, and McDonald and can keep Yze forward and have Nathan Brown and Whelan as there small defenders. We have to likely sacrifice Carrazzo onto Davey but they dont have to move a mid out of there to cover for Betts or Houilhan.
They have better depth from 4 to 8. Better small defenders and White and Jamar to ruck who have the edge on French and McLaren.

Kouta - TJ
Stevens - Moloney
Scotland - Bruce
Carrazzo - Green
Simpson - Sylvia
Bentick- McLean
Houlihan - McDonald
Betts - Jones

20 minutes a quater we can match them but the last 10 we get run right over.

That being the case Mojo although i do think you are under estimating Murphy, don't you think that we should have taken a Shannon Hurn in last years draft to fill that big body role in the middle, i was a bit dissapointed that we didn't get Hurn although i am very happy with Murphy and Kennedy. Murphy may be small in terms of height but IMO he has a pretty solid build for his age.

 

[mojo31]

Just hear me out here, if we bring in Bannister who played well at the end of last year in defence for the Ants and give him the job on Robertson he has the speed the athleticism and not a bad leap he can either gain confidence by beating him or get thrashed but either way at least we will know were we stand in terms of Bannister for the rest of the season. IMO he may well do a good job and therefore gain the confidence he needs to play a regular role on players of Robertsons ilk, either way we lose nothing by trying it because as you said we don't have anyone else to match up on him anyway.

I have said a couple of times that I belive Bannister has something to offer at AFL level given an opportunity. However my thoughts are not shared by the coach and most of the match committee who have him a long way down from player 18 to 25. I will put it this way. If we had 6 last withdrawals from our best 22 I doubt even then he would make the 22.
He is rated as a reserve for the backup players. So he will not be playing anytime soon in the AFL.

 

[mojo31]

That being the case Mojo although i do think you are under estimating Murphy, don't you think that we should have taken a Shannon Hurn in last years draft to fill that big body role in the middle, i was a bit dissapointed that we didn't get Hurn although i am very happy with Murphy and Kennedy. Murphy may be small in terms of height but IMO he has a pretty solid build for his age.

Well I belive Murphy to be the best player from the 2005 draft so I do not think I am underestimating him at all.

Nathan Jones as an example is 178cms and I would guess 88 to 90kgs now. He is enormous. Murphy is 179 and 78kgs now. Jones is elite fitness. Murphy is just finishing his first pre season ever. He is not at the elite level yet for his fitness. Jones is a former triathlete who gave it up to play football full time last year. He runs a 15 plus in the beep and a time that would beat 90% of AFL mids for the 3km. He also benched 120kgs at 17 years of age last year.

So Jones is ready to play AFL midfield now and Murphy is ready to play forward pocket with the occasional run on the ball. Come back in 3 years and Murphy will be 82kgs and as fit as Jones but will be quicker and more agile and run around and away from the Nathan Jones of this world.

Melbourne go for the physically ready players. Sylvia, McLean, Bate, Jones and even trading to get Moloney who is a similar type.

At time of drafting these players:
Sylvia 184 and 85kgs vs Walker 189cms and 81kgs
McLean 183 and 86kgs
Bate 191 and 90kgs vs Russell 188 and 78kgs.
Jones 178 and 85kgs vs Murphy 179 and 75kgs.
Dunn 192 and 90kgs

You add Simpson in there at our first pick in 2002 and you see Carlton like to take speed first up and lighter bodies with scope to improve. The WB/Scott Clayton way.


We also have 3 talls in there with Hartlett, Kennedy and Bower. Melbournes way is low risk and physically ready types.

all picks under 30 from the last 3 years.

Brisbane on the other hand like to take a tall first up.
Wood (18), Spaanderman(18), Brennan (2), Clark (9) all there 1st picks in the last 4 years.
Thery then use the second round to get run with Adcock, Sherman and those types.

We use our second picks to get talls in Hartlett, Kennedy and Bower.


I think the thing with Hurn is that he is not a midfielder. If he was then we may have used pick 4 on him. He is half back flanker who might develop into a midfielder but at the moment is a long way off it. He has OP and it is therefore assumed he will lose weight and get fitter and play midfield later on. pretty big risk for mine. He played HBF in the SANFL for 2 years and at the U18 Championships he played hbf. So where is the guarantee of him playing as a mid? He has a good kick and is composed and good hands but that does not mean he knows how to win the ball in the midfield. Has the actual knowledge of when to go and how to read the play and not get bypassed. When to sag back and when to go in for th ball and how to use the ball with 6 players around him and no time and space.
He might also never get any fitter and just be a big bodied player who lacks acceleration and agility and is easy to run around. So thats the reason he slipped down the draft. If he makes the transition to a quality mid then WC get a steal and if he does not then they overpaid for a 6 foot 1 HBF who is not very athletic.
Same for Clark. If he comes off for Brisbane then they get a gun at 9. If he plays like he did for 2005 then they get a useless dud who is lazy and disinterested.

Carlton decided to go safer and draft on character a bit more.

 

[murphster]

Well the early mail is that Sylvia won't play. Bruce might, but won't be fit if he does. Surely that evens up the midfield battle?

I also think Walker could do the job on Robertson. He has the height and the leap to go with him in the air, and the pace to go with him on the lead, and the weight to hold his own in a wrestle. He has been giving everyone he plays on this preseason a bath so I reckon he would be up to the task.

Rivers also wont play so Waite will have a second string defender, so Fish will have a third string ... so pencil him in for about 12 marks already.

Bring in Livo to play on his bitch Neitz and hey presto... 4 points.

I reckon as long as Fev brings his kicking boots we will chaulk up a comfortable win.

Is it too kooky an idea to fight extreme pace with extreme pace by bringing in Russell specifically to tag Davey? He has bulked up over the off season, and he is faster than Simmo so if anyone can keep up with Davey it will be him.

He wouldn't have to do anything other than keeping Davey from running in 5 soft goals cause no one can keep up with him, but it would have the side benefit of releasing Carrazo back to the midfield which strenthens our midfield rotation.

If you remember the game last year Walker actually ran him down from behind, however i don't think that is the problem it's his sideways movement and evasive skills that we need to stop which i don't think is possible given our tackling skills to date.

 

[murphster]

Well I belive Murphy to be the best player from the 2005 draft so I do not think I am underestimating him at all.

Nathan Jones as an example is 178cms and I would guess 88 to 90kgs now. He is enormous. Murphy is 179 and 78kgs now. Jones is elite fitness. Murphy is just finishing his first pre season ever. He is not at the elite level yet for his fitness. Jones is a former triathlete who gave it up to play football full time last year. He runs a 15 plus in the beep and a time that would beat 90% of AFL mids for the 3km. He also benched 120kgs at 17 years of age last year.

So Jones is ready to play AFL midfield now and Murphy is ready to play forward pocket with the occasional run on the ball. Come back in 3 years and Murphy will be 82kgs and as fit as Jones but will be quicker and more agile and run around and away from the Nathan Jones of this world.

Melbourne go for the physically ready players. Sylvia, McLean, Bate, Jones and even trading to get Moloney who is a similar type.

At time of drafting these players:
Sylvia 184 and 85kgs vs Walker 189cms and 81kgs
McLean 183 and 86kgs
Bate 191 and 90kgs vs Russell 188 and 78kgs.
Jones 178 and 85kgs vs Murphy 179 and 75kgs.
Dunn 192 and 90kgs

You add Simpson in there at our first pick in 2002 and you see Carlton like to take speed first up and lighter bodies with scope to improve. The WB/Scott Clayton way.


We also have 3 talls in there with Hartlett, Kennedy and Bower. Melbournes way is low risk and physically ready types.

all picks under 30 from the last 3 years.

Brisbane on the other hand like to take a tall first up.
Wood (18), Spaanderman(18), Brennan (2), Clark (9) all there 1st picks in the last 4 years.
Thery then use the second round to get run with Adcock, Sherman and those types.

We use our second picks to get talls in Hartlett, Kennedy and Bower.


I think the thing with Hurn is that he is not a midfielder. If he was then we may have used pick 4 on him. He is half back flanker who might develop into a midfielder but at the moment is a long way off it. He has OP and it is therefore assumed he will lose weight and get fitter and play midfield later on. pretty big risk for mine. He played HBF in the SANFL for 2 years and at the U18 Championships he played hbf. So where is the guarantee of him playing as a mid? He has a good kick and is composed and good hands but that does not mean he knows how to win the ball in the midfield. Has the actual knowledge of when to go and how to read the play and not get bypassed. When to sag back and when to go in for th ball and how to use the ball with 6 players around him and no time and space.
He might also never get any fitter and just be a big bodied player who lacks acceleration and agility and is easy to run around. So thats the reason he slipped down the draft. If he makes the transition to a quality mid then WC get a steal and if he does not then they overpaid for a 6 foot 1 HBF who is not very athletic.
Same for Clark. If he comes off for Brisbane then they get a gun at 9. If he plays like he did for 2005 then they get a useless dud who is lazy and disinterested.

Carlton decided to go safer and draft on character a bit more.

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[rick James]

Haha - you mean this?

Interesting. You didn't "pwn" anyone, and if I was being an idiot (which I was not), then that must make you an absolute git in that thread. And you can stop with the lying too. See, you were just being a smartarse, and the majority on that thread didn't seem to agree with you. So why would the admin? You had no coherent argument, and played the man - if you had an objection, fair enough. But it's stupid what you did, pre-season means squat all and most of it is premature excitement. I still stand by that, irrespective of your silly outburst (which was pretty much uncalled for).

So please, keep this crap off the board. At the end of the day it's insignificant BS, which made you look like a fool.

Now - as for the game coming up, I do think we're a slight chance, but Melbourne will be too strong for us. I expect a competitive hitout, win or lose. I am worried about our defense - Thornton looks to have gone backwards, Livo is no where to be seen, so Neitz and his pals might have a field day. Though I can see something if Fevola actually turns out to play, he might give them trouble.

I am particulary interested in Fisher and Waite performing. Walker too, as now is the season to perform - a lot of our "kids" are growing to that stage that they need to put in the performances to justify that potential we have labeled on them. If Houlihan can actually get a hard ball, that'll be a bonus.

Stats have been shown numerous times on the main board that pre-season form is a good indicator for most teams form over the last 5 years (it wasn't for Carlton). the thread had a stupid premise and reeked of bitterness that your team failed after the Pre season GF win last year.

Not to mention it was the first week of footy since September, god forbid we actually dsicussed football. Mind you i was pretty much trolleyed when i posted that, so apologies for the abuse.

Anyway, Livo usually towell's Neitz from recollection. News just in is that Rivers may play - ideal match up for Waite imo, Carrol will get Fevola and has done well on him in the past. That would leave Nicholson, Ferguson or even Holland to take Whitnall - maybe even Miller but I hope we don't waste him in the backline.

If we play both McLean and Bruce, they had better be close to 100% fit, playing injured players has cost us a lot recently. If we run out of fitness in a game we usually lose as it's one of our key strengths, our ability to rotate a lot of players through the middle I mean.

I think in the end Travis Johnstone will be the difference - he's just at a level that noone else in either of these teams is at as far as how damaging he can be. If he gets the ball 15-20 times we will win, like usual. but I wouldn't completely write you guys off either.