Coach Men's Senior Coach: Brad Scott

[ant555]

The comment was more to do with how hawthorn structure up/ the way modern footy is played, rather copying their game style or comparing what we have / don’t have. Moreorless saying that playing 4-5 guys who can’t move/ have no genuine leg speed at the same time in the forward line don’t going to get you far in 2024. Draper, wright, caddy Langford stringer at times all in the f50 together is just laughable structure and it’s why I’d be happy to move on stringer. At minimum should be a tall , caddy, Langford as the 3rd tall, then the rest of the forward line should be small forwards / half forwards who push up to the contest. Whether we have to trade some in rosas, konstanty etc or draft kako and also berry, it’s the number one issue that needs to be fixed.

Still comes down to the cattle. You are suggesting moves that change the structure by changing the cattle.
As far as trade in goes we need to be careful we are not trading out too many futures which we will have to do to trade this year.
What we have to do is acknowledge that it will need to be a two or three year plan right now as far as players coming out n and out and not end up where we are this year with basically two picks inside 50.
We are extremely lucky the rules got changed and we will get Kako and more than likely a pick in front of him.

 

[joey_jo_jo]

The comment was more to do with how hawthorn structure up/ the way modern footy is played, rather copying their game style or comparing what we have / don’t have. Moreorless saying that playing 4-5 guys who can’t move/ have no genuine leg speed at the same time in the forward line don’t going to get you far in 2024. Draper, wright, caddy Langford stringer at times all in the f50 together is just laughable structure and it’s why I’d be happy to move on stringer. At minimum should be a tall , caddy, Langford as the 3rd tall, then the rest of the forward line should be small forwards / half forwards who push up to the contest. Whether we have to trade some in rosas, konstanty etc or draft kako and also berry, it’s the number one issue that needs to be fixed.

100%, half way through year I was team Scott for reasons Ant has said above re list issues. But the selection choices his team made in back end of year when we had a clean bill of health was very concerning. Mainly the forward line issues you mention but also the midfield rotations/wing set up etc.

I also think now heading into year 3 if he thinks list isn't where it needs to be quit tinkering around the edges and make some strong decisions like mitchell did. We all scoffed at mitchell for supposedly gutting the team a couple of years back but he was brave enough to cop a few years at bottom, no essendon coach ever has the balls to do that.

 

[jdstorm]

Tall defenders who can kick… like Reid, Cox, Hayes and Ridley.

We’d be flush if we could keep them on the park.

Wings Marto, Durs, Jones, maybe Merrett, Roberts pushes up.

Could use extra depth but mostly fine there.

Rucks/tall forwards
Draper, Bryan, Wright, Caddy, Goldy, Visentini.

Not too bad. Wright is more of a leading forward then drop zone forward so that’s an issue.

Midfielders above 184cm
Durham and Setters + Tsatas … huge issue too small and no depth

Main issues. Mids are tiny and HBs can’t use the ball and picking slow pressure forwards.

The list is in pretty good shape all things considered

 

[BrunoV]

The comment was more to do with how hawthorn structure up/ the way modern footy is played, rather copying their game style or comparing what we have / don’t have. Moreorless saying that playing 4-5 guys who can’t move/ have no genuine leg speed at the same time in the forward line don’t going to get you far in 2024. Draper, wright, caddy Langford stringer at times all in the f50 together is just laughable structure and it’s why I’d be happy to move on stringer. At minimum should be a tall , caddy, Langford as the 3rd tall, then the rest of the forward line should be small forwards / half forwards who push up to the contest. Whether we have to trade some in rosas, konstanty etc or draft kako and also berry, it’s the number one issue that needs to be fixed.

It's worse than that.

His favourite player is slow and completely ineffective. They bring in another slow small forward, on some dumb contract, and they're played with a player who is on the slower side and who can't defend.

 

[Petrify]

Midfielders above 184cm
Durham and Setters + Tsatas … huge issue too small and no depth

Midfield height is pretty overrated. You can be a good contested/clearance mid without being tall. Serong 180, Neale 177, Daicos 184, Liberatore 184, Rowell 180

It's way more about the players strength, speed and skills.

 

[JayJ20]

The comment was more to do with how hawthorn structure up/ the way modern footy is played, rather copying their game style or comparing what we have / don’t have. Moreorless saying that playing 4-5 guys who can’t move/ have no genuine leg speed at the same time in the forward line don’t going to get you far in 2024. Draper, wright, caddy Langford stringer at times all in the f50 together is just laughable structure and it’s why I’d be happy to move on stringer. At minimum should be a tall , caddy, Langford as the 3rd tall, then the rest of the forward line should be small forwards / half forwards who push up to the contest. Whether we have to trade some in rosas, konstanty etc or draft kako and also berry, it’s the number one issue that needs to be fixed.

If we're real, we should never have Guefli, Menzie and Gresham in the same forwardline again and we re-signed two of them when the season was already shot.

Gresham, Menzie, Guelfi, Stringer, Langford, Wright, Draper as a forwardline at various stages. Not an ounce of speed there. Guelfi the only one that can defend well. And we wonder why teams were able to absorb our inside 50s.

Like a blunt knife or a nerf gun. The forward line needs a serious overhaul.

 

[JayJ20]

Midfield height is pretty overrated. You can be a good contested/clearance mid without being tall. Serong 180, Neale 177, Daicos 184, Liberatore 184, Rowell 180

It's way more about the players strength, speed and skills.

I don't think it's overrated if it's the right type of player. Midfield height improves aerial ability around the ground. You can't really stop a good transitioning side effectively if midfielders aren't able to take intercept marks or at least bring the ball to ground. Merrett isn't going to stop Bont from taking a mark for example.

 

[jdstorm]

Midfield height is pretty overrated. You can be a good contested/clearance mid without being tall. Serong 180, Neale 177, Daicos 184, Liberatore 184, Rowell 180

It's way more about the players strength, speed and skills.

Yes and no

I agree with you that players lower to the ground have an advantage at certain aspects of clearance work.

I just think bulk, force at the contest and marking ability also matter and bigger players can all impact in that aspect in a way that smaller players can’t.

I think ideally you want 2 smaller mids and 3 medium/big mids as your main mix.

 

[bomberlegend2007]

Last night sort of sold me on where we are at.

I look at Hawthorn and while a great side, they are not streets ahead in terms of talent. What they are streets ahead has been development and system. Something which we are catching up in.

To be a Top 4 side, to challenge for a flag, we don’t have to be 10x better, we just need to be fractionally better. Can we be 10% better next year? Maybe. If we are, we are looking at Top 6. Collingwood were 10% worst this year, they missed finals.

One thing I have loved that Scott has done is when players have been brought in this year, Caddy, Roberts, Bryan, they have looked ready. He held Tsatas back in the VFL because he is going to be a big bodied midfielder when he has the big body. Could be next year, could be two years. But he will be a star.

The posters on here that say we are miles off are so far off the mark I just pessimistic ranting. I understand it, but it’s not all that bad. Yeah, Massimo has been a great pick up for Hawthorn, but he is playing in a position that would be taken up by Martin and Duursma/Durham next year. Is he better than those three? No, I don’t believe so.

The way I see things is that we have two years to win a final. If Scott doesn’t do that, he is done and we look to poach a coach from somewhere. Adam Simpson is waiting in the wings, who I believe is/was an excellent coach before shit it the fan at West Coast.

 

[Seb78]

Midfield height is pretty overrated. You can be a good contested/clearance mid without being tall. Serong 180, Neale 177, Daicos 184, Liberatore 184, Rowell 180

It's way more about the players strength, speed and skills.

Difference is, almost everyone of those mids you mentioned have a big bodied mid right next to them. The entire midfield doesn't need to be huge, but you need at least one or two with power and presence at CB and stoppages.

Serong has Young
Neale has Dunkley
Daicos has Pendles/Degoey
Libba has Bont
Rowell has Anderson

It's not entirely the be all and end all but there is a certain balance the team needs especially across the midfield

 

[The Donners]

Let’s start with defenders who can kick and work our way forward from there.

Already got Reid and Ridley if they stay on the park. Just need one small that can kick as well as defend.

 

[ant555]

Midfield height is pretty overrated. You can be a good contested/clearance mid without being tall. Serong 180, Neale 177, Daicos 184, Liberatore 184, Rowell 180

It's way more about the players strength, speed and skills.

The height is handy as n one on one contests in the air. Much easier to spoil or mark. That is why it is handy to have a nice mix.

 

[BomberManU]

The height is handy as n one on one contests in the air. Much easier to spoil or mark. That is why it is handy to have a nice mix.

That was something I really noticed over the weekend - how good the contested marking was, compared to us.

 

[Petrify]

The height is handy as n one on one contests in the air. Much easier to spoil or mark. That is why it is handy to have a nice mix.

Height doesn't = good contested mark.

Look at Heeney, he's 184cm and a brilliant contest mark. Same with Harley Reid at 187cm. Do you ever recall David Myers taking a contested grab? Even Cripps doesn't take a lot of strong marks.

 

[Call Me Cake]

What makes marking easier is players who know how to pick out a space and their teammates who know how to pull the kick at the right times, either through skill or acquired team intuition. It's underrated in terms of just looking at a height of a player.

 

[ant555]

Height doesn't = good contested mark.

Look at Heeney, he's 184cm and a brilliant contest mark. Same with Harley Reid at 187cm. Do you ever recall David Myers taking a contested grab? Even Cripps doesn't take a lot of strong marks.

Go back and watch our games against Geelong and tell me we could not use some height.
You have picked out an A grade player to make a point. Yes he is a good mark. That is why he is A grade.
And I did not say marking exclusively.
The height advantage allows plenty of spoils or defensive work.
I have argued plenty of times that short bulls are effective. My point is for us it would be good to have a nice spread given our short blokes at not good marks even against other short blokes.

 

[katana]

anyone who says height doesn't make a difference has legit never actually played football.

 

[Donflicted]

Height in any sport makes a difference

 

[Petrify]

anyone who says height doesn't make a difference has legit never actually played football.

Of course it makes a difference. My point is the difference between tall mids and medium sized mids isn't that big. It doesn't matter even close to as much as talent.

One of the biggest things Essendon has ****ed up is continually drafting 190-195cm players just for their height when they aren't actually very good.

See: David Myers, Aaron Francis

Look at the two best midfields in the comp in Sydney & Port. They're all short people.

 

[Petrify]

I have argued plenty of times that short bulls are effective. My point is for us it would be good to have a nice spread given our short blokes at not good marks even against other short blokes.

Durham isn't a good mark?

 

[katana]

Of course it makes a difference. My point is the difference between tall mids and medium sized mids isn't that big. It doesn't matter even close to as much as talent.

One of the biggest things Essendon has ****ed up is continually drafting 190-195cm players just for their height when they aren't actually very good.

See: David Myers, Aaron Francis

Look at the two best midfields in the comp in Sydney & Port. They're all short people.

the difference between tall and medium is 6 or 7cms, what's your point?

sydney and port are not the two best midfields in the comp.

 

[eth-dog]

the difference between tall and medium is 6 or 7cms, what's your point?

sydney and port are not the two best midfields in the comp.

Sydney's midfield is absolutely the best in the comp.

 

[faible]

Sydney's midfield is absolutely the best in the comp.

They're not an amazing contested team, but their ability to spread and hurt you offensively is exceptional.

 

[ant555]

Durham isn't a good mark?

Okay mark.
We need an even spread. No one plays with 4 180 cm players.

 

[faible]

Okay mark.
We need an even spread. No one plays with 4 180 cm players.

Exhibit A: Geelong bullying us every. single. time.