Message to OZ- IR is over

[D Mitchell]

Did you even see it?

The point I was making was in response to your suggestion that all Picketts bumps are cheap shots.

Not quite. I wasn't having a go at Pickett. He's no worse than anybody else in the cheap shot department, just does it harder. The hardest hits in Australian Rules Footy are those that occur when the victim isn't expecting them. It's something in the psyche of the players. They love to load up the odds in their favour and take out some poor, unsuspecting bloke who has his eyes on the ball. Just how this is an admirable aspect to the game continues to escape me.

 

[Toots Hibbert]

Just getting back to your earlier assertion that the Aussies are more physical in the IR than in their own sport here are a couple of clips that show your view to be nonsense. These are not uncommon incidents in modern football. If these bumps were executed in the IR game you can imagine the furore given the kerfuffle over Pearce's tackle on Gerahty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoZxfjFk2co

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKzYS4Bc4jo

You've done your credibility no good with that statement.

 

[D Mitchell]

Just getting back to your earlier assertion that the Aussies are more physical in the IR than in their own sport here are a couple of clips that show your view to be nonsense. ...

How was the hit on Hird any worse than Selwood on Coulter ? Chapman and Kellaway was more a collision than anything. IR is supposed to be less physical yet the collisions are no different. What I'm getting at is not the collisions but the deliberate stuff, especially from blokes who don't usually do it in Australian Rules. Gilbee on Gheraghty. Davey trying to pick fights, Crowley wanting to wrestle the Irish captain, O'Keefe throwing punches at a bloke on the ground.

 

[Toots Hibbert]

How was the hit on Hird any worses than Selwood on Coulter ? Chapman and Kellaway was more a collision than anything. IR is supposed to be less physical yet the collisions are no different. What I'm getting at is not the collisions but the deliberate stuff, especially from blokes who don't usually do it in Australian Rules. Gilbee on Gheraghty. Davey trying to pick fights, Crowley wanting to wrestle the Irish captain, O'Keefe throwing punches at a bloke on the ground.

Yeah that stuff never happens in Aussie Rules.

The thing is when it happens in IR we never hear the end of it but in Aussie Rules it's forgotten very quickly. That shows that it's more commonplace and expected than in IR.

For the record I've never approved of incidents like the Chris Johnson one last year but your approach is to blame everything on the Aussies which is quite unfair.

 

[D Mitchell]

.... but your approach is to blame everything on the Aussies which is quite unfair.

It would be unfair to blame the violence on the GAA boys. I spelt out my position on the issue of blame in a response to one of your posts in the other IR thread, part of which read

All commentators observe that players from both sides went outside the rules and were involved in scuffles. That's different from both being at fault. If a victim protects himself from an aggressor, or retaliates, that doesn't mean that the victim is at fault. I have no doubt in my mind that the AFL players set out to rough up the Irish players. They were at fault in doing that. I've equally no doubt that the GAA players stood up to them and retaliated. Both trying to blame the GAA players for the fights by accusing them of starting them and attributing equal blame to them is a bully's cop out....

I've no doubt that the GAA lads threw a few and were into their fair share of wrestling but it was observably a response. I don't blame a bloke for standing up to a bully and giving him some back. What galls me is to see the bully then try and blame the victim.

 

[Toots Hibbert]

And what galls Aussies is to see blokes come flying in with their knees into an opponents back and for their supporters to think there's nothing wrong with that and to get shirty when there's trouble as a result.

Can I just point out that I'm not interested in going over this yet again. I'm more concerned with your ridiculous comment that the IR game is more physical than Aussie Rules and that our guys are rougher in that game than they are in our game. I've shown you some clips that are quite typical of what can happen in an Aussie Rules match and which would be forgotten a week later. The same thing in IR would have you and your ilk screaming for the end of the series.

BTW you've got Footscray as your other team so I'm guessing you'd be familiar with the approach of the Bulldogs under Terry Wallace a few short years ago. Do you remember how they used to harrass opponents prior to the first bounce? How a group of them would single out an opponent for special attention? For you to say that some argy bargy by the Aussies at the start of an IR game is unique and doesn't occur in ours is just fantasy.

As has been pointed out ad nauseum in this and other threads this sort of stuff is not unique to Aussie Rules. Violence and even aggression towards umpires is something that is regularly complained about in Irish reports about Gaelic football. Please get over this fantasy that their IR players are blameless.

 

[RememberMe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kA4U8zEMmLM

I love this compilation. After watching this, it is obvious to me that neither party is innocent. From a supporter's perspective though, I ********ign love it. Give me more of this next year!

By the way, how cool was the Mexican wave near the end!

 

[Horsebox]

We're getting pretty good at mexican waves actually. A gang of lads in my section got it going. It's hilarious to see it in full flow with 80,000 people after watching 20 guys standing up and sitting down for 5 minutes trying to start it off.

 

[D Mitchell]

BTW you've got Footscray as your other team so I'm guessing you'd be familiar with the approach of the Bulldogs under Terry Wallace a few short years ago. Do you remember how they used to harrass opponents prior to the first bounce? How a group of them would single out an opponent for special attention? For you to say that some argy bargy by the Aussies at the start of an IR game is unique and doesn't occur in ours is just fantasy.

When Liberatore, Romero and Dimmatina copped it back, nobody pointed the finger at the their victims and blamed them. Can you ever recall anybody condemning a player for giving Libba one of his many a black eyes ? I’ve never said that "argy bargy", at the start of an IR game is unique at all. Are you referring to the disappearance of the pre game stoush in Australian Rules which is now a bit of a bit of shouldering and minor bumping ? Even the traditional grand final pre bounce stoush has disappeared in favour of a bit of push and shove. It’s disappeared because the league set out to stamp it out. At the beginning of almost every IR game, the Galway game being a possible exception, the AFL players set out to rough up the GAA players. Usually the latter don’t respond. They did in Dublin. What happened in Dublin was close to what used to happen before Grand Finals but doesn’t any longer.

O’Mahoney put his knees into Lappin’s back. Don’t use the plural. It happened once. He was sent off. Don’t give me the holier than thou stuff about knees, landing on someone with the knees was a regular trick of AFL players until the ‘90’s when the league cracked down on the practice and it still happens. Essentially the 2 incidents that are raised against the Irish are O’Mahoney’s knees – he was sent off, and O’Keefe’s nose – nobody saw it. Trying to portray the GAA players as some sort of low life who commit unpardonables thereby justifying the manly "argy bargy" of the AFL players is nonsense. The AFL players started it, they copped their fair whack back. They and supporters who post on this site don’t like it. Bullies never do.

 

[Toots Hibbert]

So O'Mahoney did what he did because he was provoked, is that what you are saying?

Honestly I wish I was born Irish. I'd be issued with a gold pass to heaven because it's known I'd never do wrong and when I do it would be the other guy's fault.

 

[D Mitchell]

So O'Mahoney did what he did because he was provoked, is that what you are saying?

I don't know why O'Mahoney landed on Lappin with his knees. It happened 10 minutes or so into the game. By then Kennelly was off and, according to the commentary, there were fights going on all over the ground. Generally, the GAA players were responding to the AFL players provocation. I'd say that had it not been for the AFL players aggression, O'Mahoney wouldn't have done it but that's speculation and he did do it. He was sent off. What's the problem ?

 

[Toots Hibbert]

I don't know why O'Mahoney landed on Lappin with his knees. It happened 10 minutes or so into the game. By then Kennelly was off and, according to the commentary, there were fights going on all over the ground. Generally, the GAA players were responding to the AFL players provocation. I'd say that had it not been for the AFL players aggression, O'Mahoney wouldn't have done it but that's speculation. He was sent off. What's the problem ?

Whether he got sent off or not is irrelevant to the fact that you are prepared to whitewash any Irish bad behaviour. You will either deny that it took place (O'Keefe copping a blood nose) or when presented with proof you will say it must have been due to Aussie provocation. The bits I've bolded amount to you saying "I don't know why he did it but it must have been the Aussies fault".

 

[Hawkers]

We're getting pretty good at mexican waves actually. A gang of lads in my section got it going. It's hilarious to see it in full flow with 80,000 people after watching 20 guys standing up and sitting down for 5 minutes trying to start it off.

Thats not the Mexican Wave. The Mexican Wave involves throwing all your rubbish in the air as you go up. What you're doing is the wave; tell me what part of it is Mexican?

 

[sydney eagle]

Thats not the Mexican Wave. The Mexican Wave involves throwing all your rubbish in the air as you go up. What you're doing is the wave; tell me what part of it is Mexican?

It is alleged to have first appeared in Mexico. I can't remember now whether it was at the Mexico Olympics in 1968 or the World Cup in 1970.

 

[Hawkers]

It is alleged to have first appeared in Mexico. I can't remember now whether it was at the Mexico Olympics in 1968 or the World Cup in 1970.

Fair enough - I would have thought it's the Mexican Wave because of the hygiene.

I prefer the rubbish throwing as well

 

[Horsebox]

Thats not the Mexican Wave. The Mexican Wave involves throwing all your rubbish in the air as you go up. What you're doing is the wave; tell me what part of it is Mexican?

What the dickens are you on about?

 

[D Mitchell]

Whether he got sent off or not is irrelevant to the fact that you are prepared to whitewash any Irish bad behaviour. You will either deny that it took place (O'Keefe copping a blood nose) or when presented with proof you will say it must have been due to Aussie provocation. The bits I've bolded amount to you saying "I don't know why he did it but it must have been the Aussies fault".

Whitewash ? We are talking about one incident which I acknowledge occurred and that it was rightly punished. Have I tried to say it was a legal challange, that it would be ok in AFL/GAA ? How is that a whitewash ? Where did I deny that O'Keefe copped a blood nose ? It was there for all to see, I've referred to it having occurred regularly. I've said I don't know what caused it but I've never said it didn't happen. Proof ? If you are talking about O'Keefe, I've never said his blood nose was "the Aussie's fault" I've never said it was anybody's fault. Back to O'Mahoney, though. I speculate only. It’s my opinion. Yes it’s possible that he’s the cowardly, spiteful little no hoper the breast beaters paint him, mind you he faced down and saw off the usual AFL multiple attack, from the blindside by Davey, but my opinion is that he treated Lappin the way he saw AFL players treat others i.e. arrive late or continue a challange and land on the victim's upper body or push the elbow into the victim's face or....

 

[Hawkers]

What the dickens are you on about?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_QCPxj7VcM

look at about 2 minutes 10 secs - you'll see everyone throwing rubbish in the air. It's not much but it's the best I can be bothered to find

 

[RememberMe]

It is not called a Mexican wave because people throw rubbish in the air. In a Mexican wave, you throw your hands in the air. The throwing rubbish part is the reason that waves are frowned upon at Australian sporting events however.

 

[Hawkers]

It is not called a Mexican wave because people throw rubbish in the air. In a Mexican wave, you throw your hands in the air. The throwing rubbish part is the reason that waves are frowned upon at Australian sporting events however.

The rubbish throwing is the best part

 

[Toots Hibbert]

Whitewash ? We are talking about one incident which I acknowledge occurred and that it was rightly punished. Have I tried to say it was a legal challange, that it would be ok in AFL/GAA ? How is that a whitewash ? Where did I deny that O'Keefe copped a blood nose ? It was there for all to see, I've referred to it having occurred regularly. I've said I don't know what caused it but I've never said it didn't happen. Proof ? If you are talking about O'Keefe, I've never said his blood nose was "the Aussie's fault" I've never said it was anybody's fault. Back to O'Mahoney, though. I speculate only. It’s my opinion. Yes it’s possible that he’s the cowardly, spiteful little no hoper the breast beaters paint him, mind you he faced down and saw off the usual AFL multiple attack, from the blindside by Davey, but my opinion is that he treated Lappin the way he saw AFL players treat others i.e. arrive late or continue a challange and land on the victim's upper body or push the elbow into the victim's face or....

Mate listen to yourself once in a while. If the Aussies step out of line it's because we're thugs and bullies. If an Irishman does it's because an Aussie started it.

 

[D Mitchell]

... If the Aussies step out of line it's because we're thugs and bullies. If an Irishman does it's because an Aussie started it.

first sentence
1. Change "If" to "When"
2. change "step out of line" to "roughed up the GAA players outside the rules"
3. change "we're" to "they acted like"

second sentence
4. change "If" to "When"
5. change "does" to "retaliated"
6. change "it's because" to "it was"
7. change "an Aussie started it" to "they were not prepared to tolerate violence any longer."
8. add "during the Dublin game"

 

[Toots Hibbert]

Yep, I did that on my PC and when I finished it came out looking like a quote from you:-

"I don't know why O'Mahoney landed on Lappin with his knees but I'll bet it was because the Aussies were the bad guys."

 

[Horsebox]

Lads, I don't think anyones going to change their respective opinion at this stage. It's time to call it a day.

 

[D Mitchell]

Adrian Anderson said on 3AW yesterday that the International Rules tribunal can’t meet because the GAA still haven’t completed whatever it is it has to do.

GAA fixture for next year is out with no allowance for the series.

The meeting betwen the 2 codes is 9 December. It doesn't look like the GAA is playing politics for leverege in amendments to the rules, Sheedy's accusation.