List Mgmt. Mid-Season Draft - Who do we take?

[boffo]

Nope, was on the younger side, however he was eligible. https://www.afc.com.au/news/2015-11-05/my-draft-day-rory-sloane

We chose Kite over Sloane with pick 70 odd in 2007, with Rendell going for needs over best option.

My apologies, I thought you had to be turning 18 in the draft year, but apparently not.

Nice find, that article. I'll never doubt you again.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Bulldogs' draftee Ryan Gardiner playing this week apparently

 

[conVINCEd]

Looks to me that Port and Adelaide agreed not to select any SANFL players aside from their own top-ups.

Means no one would start playing against their original SANFL team in 2019.

 

[skam85]

Hey marty36 why didn't Jonty Scharenberg get picked up??

 

[kulak]

I think people are missing the point when they say that the list of players isn't very good. Who knows how good the list is? If this system had been around back in 2008, Rory Sloane would have been available. If it had been around in 1999, Matthew Pavlich would have been available.

Yes, most of the players are unlikely to play an AFL game. But what's the harm in taking a shot? $70k should be pocket change, and one more player in the group shouldn't have any meaningful impact on the amount of face-to-face coaching or resources we have to put in. This is akin to finding an unopened scratchy and thinking, well, I wouldn't want to risk breaking a fingernail, and I probably won't win so I'll just bin it instead.

Even if they are unlikely to play a game, who knows? Maybe they flourish when they move to an AFL system. Maybe we cop a horror month of injuries and suddenly they're the next up. Who knows? Well, we'll never know now.

The only potential benefit I can think of is that at least we can look at every player from our squad in the eye and say, you're here because we wanted you here, not because we had to fill a list spot.

Hypothetically, if we could have added every remaining player in the mid season draft pool, with a 70k salary cap impact for each one, would you have done it?

 

[cmndstab]

Hypothetically, if we could have added every remaining player in the mid season draft pool, with a 70k salary cap impact for each one, would you have done it?

No. I think there is a point where if it's ten, twenty, whatever players the overall cost and time expense becomes prohibitive. Exactly where that line is, I'm not sure, but it's definitely somewhere above zero.

 

[Sanders]

Sanders goes bang.

In other news, I’m still not on an AFL list.

What have I done now?

 

[Sanders]

I for one was looking forward to our new Andrew Geddes overlord

Actually I said months ago we’d pick no one

The only reason is to get an advance jump on a Tim Kelly, Shane McAdam, or Liam Ryan type

And that’s for next year

These guys have had no AFl pre-season, they won’t be fit enough to contribute this year except in an emergency

So the only reason is an early crib for the 2019 national draft

 

[Sanders]

You do realise only players who were previously in a national draft (amongst other restrictions) could be selected?

You do realise Rory Sloane was overlooked in the 2007 national draft?

 

[Samcro24]

What have I done now?

Predicted the pass. I thought we’d take a punt on someone.

 

[kulak]

No. I think there is a point where if it's ten, twenty, whatever players the overall cost and time expense becomes prohibitive. Exactly where that line is, I'm not sure, but it's definitely somewhere above zero.

Yes it’s a decision to weigh up the benefit of a small chance of a good player against the cost to the salary cap etc.

That decision clearly kicks in at some point.

Let’s say you take the first 15, this means you would spend 750k-1m of the salary cap on those just in case players - and after that, you think the cost/benefit becomes unfavourable

Whereas the club decided we already reached that point, presume because they have scoured the available players and don’t rate any of them, or at least not enough to justify the (small but real) cost.

 

[Thetrader15]

South lose their No.1 Ruckman Keegan Brooksby to the WCE in the 2018 rookie draft so they go on a nation wide search and settle on Sandringham Dragons Ruckman/Forward Hayden McLean settle him in Adelaide and find him employment only to have the Swans rip him off them in the pre-season draft only a couple of weeks before the SANFL season....now they lose their No. 1 Ruckman Michael Knoll who the Panthers plucked out of the VFL once again to the Swans who already have a plethora of Rucks on their list. It's a ******* joke!!!!

https://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/2019-05-27/pick-four-michael-knoll

Profile

Michael Knoll is a ruckman who can also impact as a forward. The 26-year-old has joined Callum Sinclair, Sam Naismith, Darcy Cameron, Hayden McLean and Joel Amartey in the Swans' developing ruck department. Formerly with the Box Hill Hawks in the VFL, Knoll signed with South Adelaide in the SANFL ahead of season 2019.

What they said

"He's progressed really well in recent years. Ever since he got an opportunity to play at South Adelaide he's developed really well, and we hope that development can continue at the Swans."

- Sydney Swans National Recruiting Manager Simon Dalrymple

I'm guessing he was the one we wanted

 

[Vader]

My apologies, I thought you had to be turning 18 in the draft year, but apparently not.

Nice find, that article. I'll never doubt you again.

You weren't entirely wrong. The rule as it stands now, is that players are first eligible in the year they turn 18. The rule changed in 2009. Prior to that, players were eligible if they turned 18 on or by 30th April in the following year (i.e. 30th April 2020 for the 2019 draft).

Sloane was a "bottom aged" player, born in the Jan-April window.

The rule change in 2009 resulted in 3 consecutive weak drafts. 2009 was at 2/3 strength, as the change of eligibility date effectively wiped out 1/3 of the draft class; 2010 was the GC draft concessions year; 2011 was the GWS draft concessions year.

 

[chazwazza]

Here’s what needs to be done, it’ll incorporate a mid season draft, trade period and add in a revolutionary new pre finals trade period.

Look, I think we’re all in agreement that this is all about the players and giving all players every chance to be the best they can be and, to achieve their football dreams and above all for these little fellas to all be happy. This is the main thing, clubs don’t matter, nor does integrity.

So, at the halfway point there’s a MSD and a MSD period. The top 8 clubs get to pick apart the bottom clubs because these kids probably aren’t enjoying their footy especially if they’re facing another 10 or more games having to play for Carlton.

Then in the week off before finals all the finalists get to pick apart the non finalists, because let’s face it, some of these poor little fellas just aren’t getting a fair go, devoid of opportunity and it’s only fair that everyone gets a medal.....eventually.

I’ll also incorporate State League Clubs who are playing finals to also pick over the carcass of the perennial failures in the AFL. Again, it’s only right that these poor dissolute young men at least get a chance to play finals instead of having to attend another ridiculous mad Monday for another overrated dinosaur Victorian club.

I’m a thinker and you know it makes sense.

 

[Mego Red]

It's not 12 players retiring, it's 5 (Betts, Douglas, Jacobs, Otten and most likely Mackay either this season or next season). Not only that, but we'd be looking at turning over 8-12 players over the next two years (including delistings, and potential trades), which is pretty much bang on the AFL average for turnover list wise.

Comfortably doable with just the draft picks we have.

I would think, by the end of next year, we could be looking at Betts, Otten, Douglas, Jacobs, Mackay, Sloane, Walker, Gibbs and Jenkins all as possible retirees. All will be into their 30s.

Add another half a dozen delistees, and that's a LOT of places we'd be looking to fill.

 

[skam85]

I would think, by the end of next year, we could be looking at Betts, Otten, Douglas, Jacobs, Mackay, Sloane, Walker, Gibbs and Jenkins all as possible retirees. All will be into their 30s.

Add another half a dozen delistees, and that's a LOT of places we'd be looking to fill.

So we're going to have four guys retire before their contracts are up? In Sloane's case, three seasons?

Righto.

 

[Mego Red]

Here’s what needs to be done, it’ll incorporate a mid season draft, trade period and add in a revolutionary new pre finals trade period.

Look, I think we’re all in agreement that this is all about the players and giving all players every chance to be the best they can be and, to achieve their football dreams and above all for these little fellas to all be happy. This is the main thing, clubs don’t matter, nor does integrity.

So, at the halfway point there’s a MSD and a MSD period. The top 8 clubs get to pick apart the bottom clubs because these kids probably aren’t enjoying their footy especially if they’re facing another 10 or more games having to play for Carlton.

Then in the week off before finals all the finalists get to pick apart the non finalists, because let’s face it, some of these poor little fellas just aren’t getting a fair go, devoid of opportunity and it’s only fair that everyone gets a medal.....eventually.

I’ll also incorporate State League Clubs who are playing finals to also pick over the carcass of the perennial failures in the AFL. Again, it’s only right that these poor dissolute young men at least get a chance to play finals instead of having to attend another ridiculous mad Monday for another overrated dinosaur Victorian club.

I’m a thinker and you know it makes sense.

I admire your steadfastness.

There absolutely should be mid-season trades - North Melbourne should be trading NOW, to get draft picks from top clubs in exchange for their players. Send Ben Brown to Collingwood for their first round pick. The clubs get a boost, and may overpay to get it now. Could be win-win - and maybe trades should be allowed all year, EXCEPT for a six week window in the leadup and including the finals.

No trades around the finals. This is our sport's premier competition and the highest form of competition. It needs the finals to remain pure.

State league clubs pick over failed AFL players every year. Not sure why someone would want to leave the professional ranks and head down to the ammos a few weeks early, just to play finals with a bunch of part-time sportsmen.

 

[Mego Red]

So we're going to have four guys retire before their contracts are up? In Sloane's case, three seasons?

Righto.

Was "could" hard to understand?

It's VERY unlikely Sloane or Gibbs will. Jenkins will probably cash his cheque. All others would be some level of likely.

 

[skam85]

Was "could" hard to understand?

It's VERY unlikely Sloane or Gibbs will. Jenkins will probably cash his cheque. All others would be some level of likely.

As expected, hiding behind the cleverly placed word 'could'.

You still suggested the possibility of four players retiring before their contracts are up. Players that are not battling debilitating injury. Or severe mental health issues (that we know of). The two main reasons why players retire before their contracts are up.

Use could, might, possible all you like.

Still completely wrong.

 

[Mego Red]

As expected, hiding behind the cleverly placed word 'could'.

You still suggested the possibility of four players retiring before their contracts are up. Players that are not battling debilitating injury. Or severe mental health issues (that we know of). The two main reasons why players retire before their contracts are up.

Use could, might, possible all you like.

Still completely wrong.

Sorry - I'm still trying to work out whether you found the words "could" and "possible" hard to understand or not?

We have a VERY large part of our best 22 who are aged 30+. If you don't think that makes them at least a risk of retiring - or having their involvement in the team drastically diminish - then I don't know what to tell you.

We clearly need to be looking to refresh our list, and three picks a year is hardly going to cut it.

 

[skam85]

Sorry - I'm still trying to work out whether you found the words "could" and "possible" hard to understand or not?

We have a VERY large part of our best 22 who are aged 30+. If you don't think that makes them at least a risk of retiring - or having their involvement in the team drastically diminish - then I don't know what to tell you.

We clearly need to be looking to refresh our list, and three picks a year is hardly going to cut it.

I'm not sure you understand the phrase "contracted until 2023"

but but but they've turned 30! time to retire!

Shaun Burgoyne would like a word.

 

[Next Gen Rookie]

I think people are missing the point when they say that the list of players isn't very good. Who knows how good the list is? If this system had been around back in 2008, Rory Sloane would have been available. If it had been around in 1999, Matthew Pavlich would have been available.

It's very likely Pavlich wouldn't have been available. He was only available in 1998 because he was a 17 year old - that clubs were only allowed to pick one of.

All these kids in this year's MSD were 19 years old (or turning it) cos they missed out on their "18" draft. Pav hadn't missed his yet.

But I'm only guessing - who knows what the rules would've been on that draft concession that no longer exists.

 

[chazwazza]

I admire your steadfastness.

There absolutely should be mid-season trades - North Melbourne should be trading NOW, to get draft picks from top clubs in exchange for their players. Send Ben Brown to Collingwood for their first round pick. The clubs get a boost, and may overpay to get it now. Could be win-win - and maybe trades should be allowed all year, EXCEPT for a six week window in the leadup and including the finals.

No trades around the finals. This is our sport's premier competition and the highest form of competition. It needs the finals to remain pure.

State league clubs pick over failed AFL players every year. Not sure why someone would want to leave the professional ranks and head down to the ammos a few weeks early, just to play finals with a bunch of part-time sportsmen.

Dear me

 

[Golumless]

I would think, by the end of next year, we could be looking at Betts, Otten, Douglas, Jacobs, Mackay, Sloane, Walker, Gibbs and Jenkins all as possible retirees. All will be into their 30s.

Add another half a dozen delistees, and that's a LOT of places we'd be looking to fill.

Bolded are contracted for this period, so there is no way any of them are retiring (Though, we'll probably trade Jenkins). Not only that, but you don't delist players that heavily when you have a large swathe of retirements. The issue year is 2021, but beyond that, it's very manageable.

 

[Mego Red]

Bolded are contracted for this period, so there is no way any of them are retiring (Though, we'll probably trade Jenkins). Not only that, but you don't delist players that heavily when you have a large swathe of retirements. The issue year is 2021, but beyond that, it's very manageable.

Look, probably true.

That being said ...

Clearly we have a lot of players in their 30s who are leaving our list soon. I'm not sure if bet my house on Tex still playing after next year.