Preview NAB2 Dockers v Crows 28 Feb

[The Sloane Ranger]

I think that's a bit hopeful.

Still choc full of quality

Like I have said they have some great inside midfield quality however my spotlight is on their overall balance and depth of their list

This is where IMO they will be tested

 

[OzSparrow]

Thommo hasn't started on the bench for as long as I can remember. At the opening of every quarter he is standing in the centre square. Whilst I understand that rotations result in there not being old style bench players, Thommo starting there would be a sign of changing times. We saw last year that in many games Thommo didn't get going well into quarters. Obviously he can't sit there any longer than about 5 minutes, however, it is meaningful if we were to start games with him on the bench or in any other position that the mids may be rotating through. I remember Walshy making a point of Jake Kelly starting on the ground in his debut, I think there is something in the 18 that are on the field at the opening siren, even though I understand it's 3 people different 4 minutes later.

I don't think there's any ability required to identify Thommo's weaknesses. They've been discussed often enough over the years and are generally accepted by most supporters as being a tendency to give away the odd unnecessary free kick, average execution by foot and the ability to run hard both ways. Most supporters would accept these as being Thommo's deficiencies just as they would accept his primary weapon as being able to win contested ball and defend within the stoppage. For many years none of those weaknesses were important because he was so far ahead of the next mid it didn't matter. To this day the odd free against and turnover by foot are largely meaningless in the grand scheme and Thommo's ability to gain possession or tackle within the stoppage is still very good. What has changed, in my opinion, are 3 things;

1. Thommo has either lost some power in his legs or confidence in that power away from a tackler or to take them on. This results in an elevated number of his possessions being hurried and the potential tackler remaining in the contest and able to pressure the team mate receiving the ball. Thommo's hands out of congestion are not as damaging as they once were.
2. I think the game has moved past players lining up at a stoppage, expending all their energy there and jogging onto the next stoppage. In play contests and numbers at it are critical and this requires spreading hard from stoppages in both directions.
3. Mobile defensive zones seem to be the way of the present and Pyke is apparently a key driver of this method. I'm not convinced that over the course of 22 weeks, Thommo will be able to maintain his position within that zone with the ball ahead of play. Although, there is a chance that one midfielder in each rotation is exempt from that defensive running. So I accept that remains to be seen.

In terms of providing effective possession, Thommo's rate is not much different to CEY and the Crouch's, none of whom are particularly experienced. At 80% game time possessions from 2015 (effective in brackets) would be;
Thommo 26 (17)
CEY 20 (13)
Brouch 23.5 (16) - *2014
Mrouch 28 (20)

When you take into account these are developing kids, then Thommo's primary weapon is not well ahead of the kids who are not as far away as some people like to believe.

But my position has never been that Thommo doesn't still have a lot to offer. I just don't think he's got it to offer over 22 rounds of the year punching out 85% time on ground. Obviously I don't subscribe to the Thommo then daylight view and I doubt that he's ahead of Sloane or B Crouch right now or that he'll be ahead of M Crouch halfway through the season. I've never suggested that he play SANFL, but I have and still argue that he should be rested periodically. I put together a little chart showing Thommo's voting v his average of just under 9 per game. He starts off extremely well coming in after recovering from injury and 2 sanfl tune ups. Then he drops off from rounds 8 through to the bye in round 11. Comes back after the bye and is immediately ahead of his average again and then the horrific events unfold and although it supports my view to and someone could argue against it, I ignore the game against West Coast, but I'd understand if someone wanted to argue contrary to that. Thommo returns to his best in 16 and ahead of his average in 17 misses 18 but is again good in 19. Whilst continuing to poll from 20 through to the semi, he's often below his average or just above it. My obvious contention is that with a rest Thommo returns and performs well above his average and it appears as though he struggles to string together a grouping of good games. My simple view is that with 2 weeks extra rest last year there would be more of those tall blue lines.



View attachment 219608


I'm not normally one for taking much regard of what players say in public, however, seeing as this isn't Thommo talking of how great someone else is, but rather talking of himself, I feel it's worth quoting here. I do think this is an honest assessment and what I read into this is that Thommo will be rested throughout this season to maximise his impact in the games he does play. I know that many will disagree vehemently and argue that it's meaningless and it may well be. The word 'hypocrite' may even get thrown around a bit, but, nonetheless;

“I go in with the approach that I would like to be able to play every game but I have constant talks with the coaching and fitness staff, on a week-to-week basis, and they are upfront conversations about how I’m feeling, where the team is at and what’s best for the team and myself as to how we are going to get through the season,’’ Thompson said.

“We all know it’s a long season — it’s not a sprint it’s certainly a marathon — so you need to manage yourself as best possible to give yourself every chance to get through the season.’’

tldr - Thommo's a spud, always has been and should be dropped to the SANFL arbitrarily for a kid so that we can turn into Melbourne overnright.

What an outstanding and well reasoned logical argument. Lots of well supported facts and unbiased arguments.

Totally wasted in this forum!

Thanks.

 

[whattagun07]

I'm genuinely excited about the Freo game.

There is always something to gain in the NAB, and always plenty to lose imo.

The majority of our players should be going all out in this match - to win, and to individually, stake their claim for the season proper.

I expect Matt Crouch to lead the engine room again - a lock for R1 imo. He's been discussed enough on here.

The following should be battling eachother for 1 or 2 spots per group.
1. Gore vs CEY vs Lyons vs Grigg
After what I saw on Sun, and with age on his side, Gore, imo, belongs in this group, and M.Crouch is a rung above.

2. Seedsman vs Mackay vs Hampton vs Atkins
Schoolyard style, i'm picking RAT first.

Also:
Menzel - can he give selectors confidence to give him the nod ahead of the recovering Knight and C.Cameron, allowing a no-risk approach, should either of these two not be 100%?

Others trying to stake their claim: Kelly and Wigg - I'll be watching these two very closely. Would love Wigg to push into the Seed/Mackay/Hampton/Atkins group. Would love Kelly to push for senior selection again, early this year.

 

[Samcro24]

I can't recall the last match up however Tippett is not a genuine ruckman in my opinion and Sauce will take him to the cleaners

This is another area of concern for Sydney, they do lack a genuine ruck

The more I think about Sydney the more confident I am that they will slide

He won the hit outs but tippet jumped all over him early. It was an ordinary game for sauce, but he was not alone.

 

[Tex200]

If people on here are bagging Thimpson then they should watch McVeigh play

At least Thompson misses targets under pressure

You seriously bagging McVeigh?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I can't recall the last match up however Tippett is not a genuine ruckman in my opinion and Sauce will take him to the cleaners

This is another area of concern for Sydney, they do lack a genuine ruck

The more I think about Sydney the more confident I am that they will slide

Particularly of they get injuries as they lack experienced depth.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I think that's a bit hopeful.

Still choc full of quality

I find Sydney the hardest team to predict. Their best 22 is quality - capable of winning a flag.

But their depth is the poorest for years, particularly experience. If they get a bad injury run, they could easily miss the finals.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

You seriously bagging McVeigh?

I happily bag the lying spike...

 

[billy fragos]

We are a decent chance for a big upset IMO, our depth is quite good and every player will be hungry for their spot.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I happily bag the lying spike...

not a bloke that i can warm to at all

 

[Tex200]

I happily bag the lying spike...

Obviously we are discussing football

 

[RedvestMan]

I'm genuinely excited about the Freo game.

There is always something to gain in the NAB, and always plenty to lose imo.

The majority of our players should be going all out in this match - to win, and to individually, stake their claim for the season proper.

I expect Matt Crouch to lead the engine room again - a lock for R1 imo. He's been discussed enough on here.

The following should be battling eachother for 1 or 2 spots per group.
1. Gore vs CEY vs Lyons vs Grigg
After what I saw on Sun, and with age on his side, Gore, imo, belongs in this group, and M.Crouch is a rung above.

2. Seedsman vs Mackay vs Hampton vs Atkins
Schoolyard style, i'm picking RAT first.

Also:
Menzel - can he give selectors confidence to give him the nod ahead of the recovering Knight and C.Cameron, allowing a no-risk approach, should either of these two not be 100%?

Others trying to stake their claim: Kelly and Wigg - I'll be watching these two very closely. Would love Wigg to push into the Seed/Mackay/Hampton/Atkins group. Would love Kelly to push for senior selection again, early this year.

Would like to see Gore persisted with in the midfield this season even though he will have his good and bad games

 

[lunacy]

with freo, bulldogs and the cats after that, i don't think 2 from 5 will cut it...

the first month of footy is so important for us.

Well it's a bloody tough first 8 rounds (and first 5). Gotta be realistic.

 

[BACCS]

It's a groin.

I reckon 'adductor' is what you say when you don't want the media or supporters making a big deal about one of your most important players doing his groin on the eve of coming back from an 18 month lay-off.

Well considering he's doing an intense training session on Saturday with the rest of the senior players not out there this week, I'd say the club are just being ultra cautious. Pyke even said last week he would have played if it were a regular season game. It makes sense to just give him another 2 weeks of solid training until our last pre-season game.

I wouldn't be surprised if he plays close to a full game against the GC to prime up for round one.

 

[BACCS]

It's obviously gone from a tight spot to a sore spot ... Pelvic stability changing directions in match play and kicking etc.... Problem is they can be hard to shake

Given there is another 2 weeks until our next game after this weekend, no need to take any risks. Club is just being smart with his management. As long as he's still doing full training sessions there is nothing to see here.

 

[BACCS]

Pyke didn't see Menzel in the top 26 last week, which is why he wasn't picked. Interested to hear him say that, does it suggest he's not a certainty for round one?

 

[BACCS]

Feel for Tals in the presser yesterday, got about 2 questions and had to sit there for 14 minutes listening to Pyke!

 

[haydo]

Feel for Tals in the presser yesterday, got about 2 questions and had to sit there for 14 minutes listening to Pyke!

I was thinking the same thing whilst watching it. The bloke was probably thinking "I just signed a freaking huge deal with the club and stated my loyalty being a Victorian in an interstate club" yet only gets 2 questions, what a waste of his time

 

[Elite Crow]

Pyke didn't see Menzel in the top 26 last week, which is why he wasn't picked. Interested to hear him say that, does it suggest he's not a certainty for round one?

It would have to be unless he kills it this weekend

 

[haydo]

Pyke didn't see Menzel in the top 26 last week, which is why he wasn't picked. Interested to hear him say that, does it suggest he's not a certainty for round one?

Well I wouldn't have thought so. Talent alone shouldn't get you into the squad. I see Pyke as someone who makes you earn your position in the side, so Menzel will have to work extra harder as we have plenty of players fighting for the same position and right now (barring injury) I see him a little down the pecking order

 

[Godallblighty]

Well considering he's doing an intense training session on Saturday with the rest of the senior players not out there this week, I'd say the club are just being ultra cautious. Pyke even said last week he would have played if it were a regular season game. It makes sense to just give him another 2 weeks of solid training until our last pre-season game.

I wouldn't be surprised if he plays close to a full game against the GC to prime up for round one.

I know what Pyke said. I'm suggesting that they're playing it down. I hope you're right and he doesn't run laps this weekend and does play a full game against GC. If so, I'll happily admit I've let my cynicism get the better of me.

 

[BACCS]

I was thinking the same thing whilst watching it. The bloke was probably thinking "I just signed a freaking huge deal with the club and stated my loyalty being a Victorian in an interstate club" yet only gets 2 questions, what a waste of his time

A bit stupid to not just do a separate presser though, the journos are only really there to hear from Pyke.

 

[BACCS]

I know what Pyke said. I'm suggesting that they're playing it down. I hope you're right and he doesn't run laps this weekend and does play a full game against GC. If so, I'll happily admit I've let my cynicism get the better of me.

The club (and Pyke) have already said that he's doing a full session with the other senior players on Saturday, he won't just be running laps. No point taking him all the way over to WA in the heat with a slight niggle, just get him to continue training at a high intensity here and have him cherry ripe to go against the GC.

 

[Godallblighty]

Let's see how he goes tomorrow then.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Pyke didn't see Menzel in the top 26 last week, which is why he wasn't picked. Interested to hear him say that, does it suggest he's not a certainty for round one?

Definitely a mind games thing ....he's trying to push Troy to get the best out of himself and also let him know that his talent alone will never be enough to be a consistent AFL player

He's giving him a subtle push but will reward him if he sees consistency of effort