Universal Love Nick Austin - Head Of List Management

[No1Suspect]

I get that Austin rates the character of a person, that shouldn't mean we draft choir boys

Only bloke drafted under his tenure that will more than stand his ground is Cowan

Something i noticed apart from speed and kicking skills, as a differential, we simply don't draft mongrel and hunger.... think of tigs cats hawks dynasties... all packed to the rafters with angry players. Even the pies premiership team had a bit of go.
To many lygon latte sippers.

 

[Juice030103]

Speed and kicking

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

I like Matt Kennedy for a whole lot of reasons. But we traded him because we saw our list was without pace and skills. His trade was intended as one step in addressing these deficiencies.

I can understand if posters want to question whether we sufficiently addressed the pace and deficiency issues with the trade collateral we held. I mean, other than Jagga, did we secure any actual pace?

But in terms of overall list shape, I think we should just wish Matt Kennedy well. I certainly hope he has a good career at the Bulldogs.

Voss mentioned in an interview that the list was imbalanced with inside midfielders, so you could assume that the coach assistants and Austin are aware of, Austin’s also mentioned more speed and a POD in the midfield as well…

You also need to consider the types of inside midfield players they are, mainly slow or lack the necessary level of foot speed, defensively incapable of defending or chasing once the ball is out of congestion…

Lack of offensive run/chains and creativity, capable of playing multiple positions, goal kickers…

Jagga is a great start, and more is still needed in the midfield and also on the flanks…

 

[Accidental genius]

The elephant in the room has to be that we traded pick 12 and our first two picks in 2025 (plus Matt Owies) to move up 9 spots in the draft last year and take a guy who promptly did his ACL.

We lost quite a bit of depth - Owies, Kennedy, Carroll, Martin, Cunningham, Marchbank - and the only mature player we added was 33 year old Haynes.

We also have some glaring gaps on our list, and bizarrely, those are in spots where we have relative strength in our best 23. That makes for a horror drop-off if we ever cop an injury... some examples:

We have the best 1-2 Key forward package in the league, and then no backups at all, unless you count Lemmey, who was considered so unready that we didn't even play him last year when both our bigs, and TDK, and Silvagni, were all injured

Our midfield is good at the top end (Cripps, Walsh, Cerra, Hewett) but we don't really have anyone who rotates through who is reliable. Smith is already injured (and we shouldn't have expected a first year player to be a big contributor anyway) and Docherty a huge question mark post-injury. But the backups from there are two-gamer Cooper Lord, 0-gamer Ben Camporeale, and... Cincotta (also injured)?

We have TDK and Pitto, which is a pretty good ruck combination. But TDK is probably best alongside another big bodied ruck (particularly against opposition gorillas) and we have no backup to Pitto, except HOK who is both not ready, and injured.

On the backline, the only player with any pace is Saad. This is such a glaring gap we have thrown Hollands back out of desperation. Problem is, he panics a bit and has poor disposal, which is a critical issue, but he's at least tough enough to give it a crack.

We have zero mid-sized forwards now that we have decided Jack Silvagni and McGovern are exclusively defenders. Moir is in a development slot, we're giving Kemp a crack, Eli Hollands can take a mark when he decides

As a result, we are incredible vulnerable to injury Charlie Curnow is injured and there is literally no replacement - we just play without him and it destroys our structure. Pitto is injured, and so we are forced to pull McKay from the forward line and play Cripps in the ruck, while also letting Nankervis monster TDK to be BOG. If Saad misses a game in defence we are screwed. We are a Cerra hamstring injury away from not having a functioning midfield

Austin has had four years to plan this out, but has spent that entire time gutting the list of midfielders (since he took over: Murphy, Curnow, Dow, Stocker, Kennedy, Setterfield, SPS, Newnes, Cuningham have all gone) and even talls (the list he took over had Kreuzer, Jones, McDonald, Casboult, Macreadie, Ben Silvagni, Hugh Goddard and Plowman - we've replaced that set of 8 players with only O'Keefe, Lemmey, O'Farrell and Lewis Young).

This is simply not good enough imo.

And last year was a catastrophe - maybe on the 2014 level. To give up our first two future picks AND allow us to head into the next season with a list so vulnerable in the midfield and key position areas was setting us up for disaster. It's ok to have a bit of a reset year, where we blood some younger guys and evolve a little. To do that while also trading away all our future draft capital, while also being salary capped to the max is a horrible mistake.

Good summation

 

[Jimmae]

The elephant in the room has to be that we traded pick 12 and our first two picks in 2025 (plus Matt Owies) to move up 9 spots in the draft last year and take a guy who promptly did his ACL.

It shows why you try to hedge your bets a bit, particularly in such a strong draft.

Would never have done that Hawthorn trade, ignored the Baker deal, and shopped our future first around more comprehensively. Could have then tried to thread something with Richmond's simultaneous dealings with West Coast and Fremantle to get a better pick than what Hawthorn were offering.

Yes, Melbourne's deal with Essendon hamstrung our position a bit, but still. We overpaid twice to make pick 3 happen.

We lost quite a bit of depth - Owies, Kennedy, Carroll, Martin, Cunningham, Marchbank - and the only mature player we added was 33 year old Haynes.

As others have pointed out, the collective availability amounted to 3 players. In terms of senior reinforcements, we also added Evans.

So with Lord, Evans, and Haynes, we've basically adequately replaced Kennedy, Owies, and Marchbank. With Lucas, we've replaced Carroll, and we've also got Ben and Moir on the books. Hopefully Moir works out, but as above I feel the issue is what we did at the pointy end.

Still believe it was possible for us to secure Hotton and Hynes.

 

[Accidental genius]

Only question I have of Owies was he truly an opportunist small fwd - seemed most of his goals came from marks when he was in space like you expect from a third tall -- he never seemed to get a lot of ground ball goals ..
But one good thing was his consistency of output -- you knew what you would get every week...

Agree but our talls dont generally run into space anyway so he wasn’t getting in anyone’s way

Maybe they should have learnt from owies…

Club still doesn’t seem to value forwards leading into space

Same old crap of bombing long was on display thursday night

 

[gbatman]

I don't think the head of recruiting is the issue as much as the team as a whole. We couldn't identify forwards with Silvagni as head either. Just don't have it.

 

[Dramoth]

FMD....so people are now complaining that we traded out Kennedy yet also complaining that our midfield is too one paced.

And then complaining that we desperately need a young development KPD, although we used the pick we got for Kennedy to draft O'Farrell???

What am I missing here?

Some people are standing there watching the world burn to the ground... while surreptitiously pushing the jerry can and matches behind themselves.

 

[Dramoth]

I love how after a loss, everyone suddenly starts screaming for the heads of the coach, the recruiting manager, the football operations manager, and in some extreme cases, the president and spilling the whole board.

One game into the new season... will we never learn ****ing patience?

 

[GT619]

Absolute zero chance....only really got cranking cos we lost on Thurs nite, and someone commented about how we should have kept Kennedy after one game cos the doggies won....

dogs play lot of marvel games. it will suit him

 

[GT619]

Dan Houston would have made our team a lot better. Bad decision by Austin. Our window is now and we are 2 or 3 years away from yet another rebuild.

On SM-G990E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Jagga will make us better long-term. I'll never put pressure on young kids starting out

 

[GT619]

Speed and kicking

thats why we drafted Jagga

 

[jpfalvo]

I love how after a loss, everyone suddenly starts screaming for the heads of the coach, the recruiting manager, the football operations manager, and in some extreme cases, the president and spilling the whole board.

One game into the new season... will we never learn ****ing patience?

The 66 game rebuild started in 2016.

I think we all have been very patient awaiting the arrival of a trustworthy, reliable, predictable, cohesive football team with a gameplan that can at least take us to top4.

We havent finished a regular season in the top4 since 2001. History says, baring an exception here and there, the benchmark you need to contest for a flag.

Questions being asked are very valid.
The supporter base has made an investment of goodwill, good faith and good money in the clubs narrative since the rebuild announcement...





Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk

 

[BluesFanatic2025]

The only way to assess this is by looking at the facts. Austin arrived February 2020. You grade each pick as Success (S), Fail (F), Too early to tell (TE)

2020 Trade Period / Draft

Zac Williams free agent - by any description given the salary cap this has wasted massive F
Traded Pick 30 and 51 for Pick 38 and Fogarty
Traded Pick 8 and 87 for Saad Pick 48 and Pick 78 - Dons drafted Zach Reid. Max Holmes was pick 20 but that is a fair stretch.
Traded Pick 31 to Sydney for Pick 48 and 2021 3rd Round
Pick 37 selected Corey Durdrin - F but minor. Harry Sharp available after but not much there
Pick 41 selected Jack Carrol - F. Not much in this draft
Elevated Gibbons - meh
Rookie drafted Luke Parks - F
Pre-season Oscar McDonald - F

Overall - minor failure or if being generous, arguably neutral. Williams has wasted cap space. Terrible decision. Trading 8 for Saad in a good draft is poor but this was a bad draft so not bad. Fogarty a decent pickup. Failed draft picks but it was a bad draft. If it was not for Williams I would say this was a pass mark

2021 Trade Period / Draft

Mirkov mid season draft. Peatling was taken two picks later - F
Jordan Boyd mid season draft - I rate as S given it was pick 20 in mid-season draft and I think a fit Boyd is a top 30 player on a premiership list
Hewett Free Agent - modest contract. Solid performer - S. When you look at those who were free agents this was a great pick. Credit deserved here
Traded pick 6 and 2022 3rd to Freo for Adam Cerra - With the pick Freo got Amiss. He is better than Cerra to date and cheaper - very mild F
Traded SPS for Lewis Young - mild S as Young still playing
Pick 27 Motlop - F. Shows nothing. Soligo not long after
Elevated Honey and Kennedy. Rate Kennedy but elevations so meh
Rookie draft pick 24 Cotterel - S

Overall - Added Boyd, Hewett and Cotterel. But had pick 6. Again weak draft. I would say mild success

2022 Trade Period / Draft

Mid-season - Durdin and Hayes. Nothing of note picked after them so neutral
3rd round pick for Acres - clear S but Hill, Grundy and Lobb all available. Clearly should have looked at 1 or 2 of these over Acres so neutral
Picked Hollands at 11. Weddle pick 18 huge miss.
Pick 30 Cowan - S
Pick 32 Binns - F
Pick 47 Lemmey - TE
Elevated Owies - meh
Hudson Okeefe - TE
Cincotta - TE

Overall - neutral at best as Acres and Cowan good picks, but other free agents available and Hollands / Weddle better than Ollie

2023 Trade Period / Draft

Fantasia free agent - TE. Gresham possible option but meh
Fisher and Pick 17 for picks 21 and 25 - Dawson with original pick from North meh. Drafted Moir with Logan Morris right there big F. Billy Wilson at what 25 became not much after him - S. But overall trading those picks and missing Morris - F
Swaped pick 26 for Hollands and 28 plus some other picks - good trade up until recently - TE

Overall - clear fail. Imagine Morris as a third tall in our forward line


Now I will have missed some stuff or gotten some things wrong (did this from a quick Wiki) but what it shows is Austin has been very average. Should be moved on today.

 

[Soapy V]

I love how after a loss, everyone suddenly starts screaming for the heads of the coach, the recruiting manager, the football operations manager, and in some extreme cases, the president and spilling the whole board.

One game into the new season... will we never learn ****ing patience?

30 years of Mediocrity and we have lost 10 of last 12 with our only wins against WCE & North

We then lead the worst side in the AFL by more than 40 points and lose allowing them to kick 9 goals to 2 after halftime

TBH my patience is wearing thin because it’s a lot more than one game

 

[btdg]

It shows why you try to hedge your bets a bit, particularly in such a strong draft.

Would never have done that Hawthorn trade, ignored the Baker deal, and shopped our future first around more comprehensively. Could have then tried to thread something with Richmond's simultaneous dealings with West Coast and Fremantle to get a better pick than what Hawthorn were offering.

Yes, Melbourne's deal with Essendon hamstrung our position a bit, but still. We overpaid twice to make pick 3 happen.

As others have pointed out, the collective availability amounted to 3 players. In terms of senior reinforcements, we also added Evans.

So with Lord, Evans, and Haynes, we've basically adequately replaced Kennedy, Owies, and Marchbank. With Lucas, we've replaced Carroll, and we've also got Ben and Moir on the books. Hopefully Moir works out, but as above I feel the issue is what we did at the pointy end.

Still believe it was possible for us to secure Hotton and Hynes.

Come off it.

Lord doesn't replace Kennedy - he doesn't have the same positional flexibility, isn't a goal kicker and is younger and still a way off being a reliable contributor

Evans doesn't replace Owies. He doesn't kick goals or take marks inside 50, both of which were relative strengths for Owies, and we don't have anyone on the list who can play that role. All our small forwards are now essentially ground ball guys.

And then we're into hoping that first year players can replace veterans, and it's all just 'hope'. We haven't seen Moir play a full game at AFL level and he's not ready yet. Ben Camporeale is both too young and injured.

The squad that made the preliminary final two years ago had the following players who were aged 22+ (ie: mature enough bodies to contribute): Ed Curnow, Plowman, Durdin, Cuningham, Martin, Marchbank, Owies, Kennedy, Fisher, O'Brien, Dow. Plus Philp, Honey, Carroll, who would be there now. The 2023 squad had 33 players aged 22 and over, and 12 players aged 21 and younger

Those 14 players who are gone have been replaced by the following mature players: Haynes, Fantasia, Elijah Hollands, Francis Evans. That's it: Kemp and Corey Durdin are the only players who have aged into the 23+ bracket.

We now have 27 players total aged 22+ and 16 players aged 21 or younger. That's not the profile of a contending list. That is a team that is rebuilding. And yet only TWO of those 16 players were drafted in the top 25, and one of those is done for the year. 13 of them have 5 combined games of experience. Somehow we have let all our depth go in favour of a pretty big rebuild that is comprised almost entirely of hopes and prayers. What is worse is we already have 2x ACL injuries two others who are second game back.

To provide contrast, Collingwood have 33x players over 22 and 9x players under. Hawthorn, a rising young team, have 30x over and 12x players under.

The team closest to us is Richmond, who have... 27 players over 22 and 16 who are under. We actually have the same list make up as the expected wooden spooners... Except they traded players out and got draft capital, while we have loaded up on speculative picks.

It honestly looks like a complete botch job to me. Again, with Curnow injured we had zero KP forwards to replace him. If any of our mids get injured, we are bringing in who exactly at this point?

 

[JustOneTime]

So the answer is that MK leaving was not on Voss.

1). Salary Cap
2). Draft pick
3). Future lineup = a tight fit in the midfield. Mutual decision to look about (happy to have you about/back if not)

1 & 2 trumped #3 for the LM side of things = trade is done. Everyone happy with the outcome. Depth lost but S/C gain. List Management team = win.

At the time they were considering offloading a number of other lesser players. Owies, Kemp, Young to get the money. This was the salary cap planning strategy. We found out no one wanted our last 2 players at the salary cap cost. Prob didnt want them at a 50% reduction either where we pay half.

Voss provided a late breaking opportunity that was not part of the plan. Why? Because MK was pissed for being dropped in the final so in the exit chat forced Vossy to say whether he was valued in the midfield. This forced Vossy to make a decision. He obv chose Hewett... But why it is a bit rapid gunfire approach is that he preferred Kennedy earlier in the season and Hewett later...basically in 2024 he didnt really know who was better personally....

I'd also might guess it was Kennedy going FU to Voss after that chat so nothing to do with Carlton's side of planning.

That Vossy chat then gave Austin another player to shop and this is unforeseen from Austin in his 6-12 month list strategy plan.

Obviously this is my guessing of events. Let's not forget, you 1/2/3 is also a guestomate. It's guess vs guess.

 

[JustOneTime]

For the least 3 off seasons there has been a few long time posters who just said we need kicking. Thank god there is now a consensus that it is speed and kicking we need.

Was hard reading for a while. I mean, it is not hard to spot with Fogarty a slow inside midfielder playing the small forward role. Square peg for a round hole.

A bedford or jones would be nice right? And they arent even any of the first 15 we'd take as a small forward.

 

[Jimmae]

Lord doesn't replace Kennedy - he doesn't have the same positional flexibility, isn't a goal kicker and is younger and still a way off being a reliable contributor

Lord is a better disposer of the ball and keeps his feet more, I think that makes up for the current lack of versatility, which often saw Kennedy get run off of when he was deployed outside of midfield.

Footy IQ is the challenge, and any vague versatility would come with that.

Evans doesn't replace Owies. He doesn't kick goals or take marks inside 50, both of which were relative strengths for Owies, and we don't have anyone on the list who can play that role. All our small forwards are now essentially ground ball guys.

Evans handles the ground ball better and has better goal scoring ability. Owies was actually a horrific mark when he came to us, and it was something that he worked on.

He was also not very good with pressure and running games out, and drew the shortest straw in terms of our mediocre small forward unit. More may still follow.

And then we're into hoping that first year players can replace veterans, and it's all just 'hope'. We haven't seen Moir play a full game at AFL level and he's not ready yet. Ben Camporeale is both too young and injured.

Eventually the list turns over, and Moir has a lot of Martin's strengths, but his endurance base needs a lot of work. Overall it still beats paying a hefty salary to a bloke who's able to produce for maybe 5 games a year.

The squad that made the preliminary final two years ago had the following players who were aged 22+ (ie: mature enough bodies to contribute): Ed Curnow, Plowman, Durdin, Cuningham, Martin, Marchbank, Owies, Kennedy, Fisher, O'Brien, Dow. Plus Philp, Honey, Carroll, who would be there now. The 2023 squad had 33 players aged 22 and over, and 12 players aged 21 and younger

What an obtuse metric, that serves little to no purpose other than to point out we staged a list refresh.

Some will compare out strategy with the Pies, and I think they have thrown too much at recruits in the off-season and they're going to struggle against the top teams, who are quicker on the aggregate.

They will play to their maximum, and they'd be a decent chance to finish top 4, but I don't think it gets them over the top.

We've definitely gone backwards, and it's going to smart more with Jagga out for the season, but the key problem is that we didn't bring enough quick talent into the mix, and we're certainly not trying hard to upskill and deploy what we do have.

Austin has consistently erred on the side of caution when it comes to any form of athletic ability that isn't an endurance base, and it's cost us dearly. He also seems to have no grasp of what an elite kick entails, and defers to elite decision making with where to pass as an indirect measure, but that's only as good as the standard of play and gamestyle in a given league, line, and thus the pressure applied on an individual in their role and those receiving their passes.

We need better analysis than this.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Lord is a better disposer of the ball and keeps his feet more, I think that makes up for the current lack of versatility, which often saw Kennedy get run off of when he was deployed outside of midfield.

Footy IQ is the challenge, and any vague versatility would come with that.

Evans handles the ground ball better and has better goal scoring ability. Owies was actually a horrific mark when he came to us, and it was something that he worked on.

He was also not very good with pressure and running games out, and drew the shortest straw in terms of our mediocre small forward unit. More may still follow.

Eventually the list turns over, and Moir has a lot of Martin's strengths, but his endurance base needs a lot of work. Overall it still beats paying a hefty salary to a bloke who's able to produce for maybe 5 games a year.

What an obtuse metric, that serves little to no purpose other than to point out we staged a list refresh.

Some will compare out strategy with the Pies, and I think they have thrown too much at recruits in the off-season and they're going to struggle against the top teams, who are quicker on the aggregate.

They will play to their maximum, and they'd be a decent chance to finish top 4, but I don't think it gets them over the top.

We've definitely gone backwards, and it's going to smart more with Jagga out for the season, but the key problem is that we didn't bring enough quick talent into the mix, and we're certainly not trying hard to upskill and deploy what we do have.

Austin has consistently erred on the side of caution when it comes to any form of athletic ability that isn't an endurance base, and it's cost us dearly. He also seems to have no grasp of what an elite kick entails, and defers to elite decision making with where to pass as an indirect measure, but that's only as good as the standard of play and gamestyle in a given league, line, and thus the pressure applied on an individual in their role and those receiving their passes.

We need better analysis than this.

The lack of overall athletic ability across our list is painful to watch in comparison to other sides. We have a lot of endurance beasts but none of them have any sort of pace or agility to go with it other than Cottrell who's no superstar.

Hopefully some youngsters come on this year and we can find a way to shuffle the list around to bring in the necessary qualities to support Weitering, Cripps, Curnow etc.