Scape Goat Nick Austin - Head Of List Management

[Beyond Blue]

Easy to do rear vision mirror recruiting.

Jagga Smith was the best prospect in that draft class by a mile.

He will prove it when he gets back.

That may well be but the price we paid was too much. No matter how good Jagga becomes I doubt he’d out performance the combined impact of any two of Murphy Read, Hannaford, Trainor and Berry.

 

[bradfisher14]

That may well be but the price we paid was too much. No matter how good Jagga becomes I doubt he’d out performance the combined impact of any two of Murphy Read, Hannaford, Trainor and Berry.

Time will tell on that. I still have faith.

 

[Coona Blues]

Should there be more scrutiny on Austin’s recruitment?

Or is it more so development?

Recruiting

Going to shout it DEVELOPMENT.

The recruiting team gives the coaches what they request, or try to.
The coaches were the ones assessing the SSP options, and they are the ones making the bulk of the decision. Austin and co gave them the options. Key backs, tall backs, tall forward and a couple of small forwards.

As for not filling our list gaps, they have tried to with the draft capital and options they have.

If I have questions on recruiting it is the occasional overkill.

Acquiring Acres, Ollie and Binns in one off season due to needing “outside run”. Didn’t want Binns for just the reasons that have now manifested. Always a great comoetitor and accumulator, but very inconsistent with disposal. Unfortunately in our regime, there little scope to improve disposal.

We acquired Saad and Williams in one off season. Admittedly Williams was meant to play mid. (Other HBF kids too)

SSP, trialled talls and (after inspired choice of Carroll) took two small forwards, admittedly after Durds went down again. Mots was being hailed for pre season, Williams flying, Fog and Cotts up and about, Elijah ????

Somebody has big faith in Lemmey, is it coaches or recruiters, surely feedback comes from coaches first. I was in the camp that McMahon gives us a failsafe as a young tall forward to step up should Harry or Charlie go down. O’Keeffe is the only other option in that area. (Unless coaches still want to play Pitto and TDK together)

I like Charleson and have no problem with the recruitment, but how does that reflect on Wilson?

Lord was/is a big free hit and similarly, Ben will be a quality midfield option. BUT, we have to develop them right. Keep their two way running inclination as a possibility, encourage them to spread, not be pure insiders and clearly work on disposal. Lucas shows heaps, but has already been overfaced, I hope he doesn’t learn to “cheat” like some of his mates (Ollie is a great POD in our group, in that he has kept his instinct to present where ever he can to do the “team thing”.)

Aggravated that so many are calling for another mature KPD at the end of the year. We don’t have the draft capital, and O’Farrell will be ready sooner than most think. JSOS and Young provide the short term cover. Another kid in the draft would be ideal (I have pencilled in F/S Harry Dean, and suspect Clancy Dennis will be an option MSD or next year)

 

[Arr0w]

Coach puts his shopping list in, type, characteristics, etc

Recruiter picks the name for draftees, for trades, coach gets involved

Acres a great selection by both recruiter and coach

Cowan, solid selection by recruiter

Ollie over Weddle, Binns over Dowling, not so good, if it was to address run

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Somebody has big faith in Lemmey, is it coaches or recruiters, surely feedback comes from coaches first. I was in the camp that McMahon gives us a failsafe as a young tall forward to step up should Harry or Charlie go down. O’Keeffe is the only other option in that area. (Unless coaches still want to play Pitto and TDK together)

McMahon was a free throw at the stumps once the second spot opened up in the SSP. Absolute madness not to bring him onto the senior list for a year to at least trial him. Once again we have no back up option when one of our big boppers goes down - and we're again forced to reshuffle players around to plug gaps.

I've said it before, but I have zero doubt that the Evans selection had Voss written all over it, and his want for 'speed and power'. His job is to win games in order to retain his job, not maintain list balance.

 

[DangerousD]

Aggravated that so many are calling for another mature KPD at the end of the year. We don’t have the draft capital, and O’Farrell will be ready sooner than most think. JSOS and Young provide the short term cover. Another kid in the draft would be ideal (I have pencilled in F/S Harry Dean, and suspect Clancy Dennis will be an option MSD or next year)

Very surprised by this, haven’t seen O’Farrell play as there has only been one game and have seen written many times that he requires quite a bit of filling out, so when do you think he can play CHB in the AFL? There’s not many key defenders doing a great job in their 2nd or 3rd season.

I hope we draft another KPD and hopefully its Dean but we need to decide if we are challenging or not, if we are challenging in the next 1-3 years then we need to find a way of finding a better option than Young, i love SOS but already I’ve made up my mind that he’s a better forward option than Kemp

 

[DangerousD]

Im really struggling on how much blame i out on Austin and co for our list predicament versus the coach. The coach would be telling Austin what types he wants and if Voss is all in on bash and crash contested football, then doesnt that explain why we now have a one paced football side?

Or do you say that Austin in the quest for running players recruiting Acres, Hollands and Binns in one go lacked balance and variety.

I posted something yesterday showing that 7 years ago Austin already had Weits, Cripps, TDK, Harry and Charlie locked in place, he’s had that long to find a second KPD and quality small forwards yet here we are.

I see the Hawks identified defensive height as an issue and rectified it in one of season, they could easily make a play for Harry come seasons end to cover their forward line too.

Then i see our last two drafts and trade periods and feel we have done stuff all.

 

[Michael Jezz]

Caminiti another Austin/Agresta doozie of a drafr/rookie miss. (Played for Carlton Ressies)

 

[Michael Jezz]

Im really struggling on how much blame i out on Austin and co for our list predicament versus the coach. The coach would be telling Austin what types he wants and if Voss is all in on bash and crash contested football, then doesnt that explain why we now have a one paced football side?

Or do you say that Austin in the quest for running players recruiting Acres, Hollands and Binns in one go lacked balance and variety.

I posted something yesterday showing that 7 years ago Austin already had Weits, Cripps, TDK, Harry and Charlie locked in place, he’s had that long to find a second KPD and quality small forwards yet here we are.

I see the Hawks identified defensive height as an issue and rectified it in one of season, they could easily make a play for Harry come seasons end to cover their forward line too.

Then i see our last two drafts and trade periods and feel we have done stuff all.

70% of our issues are Recruiting
30% Coaching
I predict Voss will be replaced but a new coach will not have a massive difference. The list has not the leg speed, kicking skills, burst mids small fwds and key backs to adopt a change to a modern game plan

 

[jpfalvo]

Caminiti another Austin/Agresta doozie of a drafr/rookie miss. (Played for Carlton Ressies)

Caminiti is at St Kilda, because Jack Silvagni talked him up to his Dad at home.

That was actually written in articles at the time.

Caminiti now playing key back, as a mr fix it to solve the saints deficiencies for now.

Big mistake, right under our noses.

You'd think they'd learn after missing Kane Lambert for years -> with this obviously Austin wasn't around, but the lesson of giving your VFL guys a go

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[Blue_Fusion]

70% of our issues are Recruiting
30% Coaching
I predict Voss will be replaced but a new coach will not have a massive difference. The list has not the leg speed, kicking skills, burst mids small fwds and key backs to adopt a change to a modern game plan

Voss has an impact on recruiting too...

He would be telling Austin what he's after... durability and running power was a high priority iinm...

 

[Arr0w]

From the time Voss joined the club, we have endeavoured to bring in more run and speed, unfortunately the selections were very conservative and or off the mark

 

[Michael Jezz]

Voss has an impact on recruiting too...

He would be telling Austin what he's after... durability and running power was a high priority iinm...

Totally absurd to argue the head of recruiting is not accountable for recruiting.
That is symptomatic of the Carlton problem, starting at board level, where departments are not held accountable and the supporter base and board go for the optics of a "coach kill" without gutting the remainder of football departments

Further to your point
If voss requested a small fwd and austin delivers: durdin, motlop, evans and they don't perform who is responsible?
If Voss requests outside mids and Austin delivers Cerra and Williams, who is responsible?

 

[Stamos]

70% of our issues are Recruiting
30% Coaching
I predict Voss will be replaced but a new coach will not have a massive difference. The list has not the leg speed, kicking skills, burst mids small fwds and key backs to adopt a change to a modern game plan

Your percentages are flipped, and that’s being generous.

If we were getting the best out of our players, you could say the problem is our list.

We compete with talent, not system.
If 3 of our 6 guns play a good game, we’re competitive with anyone.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Totally absurd to argue the head of recruiting is not accountable for recruiting.
That is symptomatic of the Carlton problem, starting at board level, where departments are not held accountable and the supporter base and board go for the optics of a "coach kill" without gutting the remainder of football departments

Further to your point
If voss requested a small fwd and austin delivers: durdin, motlop, evans and they don't perform who is responsible?
If Voss requests outside mids and Austin delivers Cerra and Williams, who is responsible?

Not saying Austin isn't accountable...

But Voss did drive decisions such as Ollie over Weddle for example.

 

[Michael Jezz]

Your percentages are flipped, and that’s being generous.

If we were getting the best out of our players, you could say the problem is our list.

We compete with talent, not system.
If 3 of our 6 guns play a good game, we’re competitive with anyone.

My view a new coach will not do much better because it is not a.top.4 list & barely top.8.

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

From the time Voss joined the club, we have endeavoured to bring in more run and speed, unfortunately the selection were very conservative and or off the mark

Or former Port players
Orazio and Evans….waiting for us to make a play for Dixon or Boak

 

[bigblueboy]

Austin’s picks to fill our most crucial needs have been poor. No-one can sugar coat that.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Austin’s picks to fill our most crucial needs have been poor. No-one can sugar coat that.

We've had problems with Hughes... Silvagni... now it's becoming apparent with Austin...

SOS nailed the 2015 draft. Picked TDK in 2017 and Walsh was a safe pick at 1.

Austin has picked:

2020:
#37 Durdin - hasn't come on
#41 Carroll - out the door

To be fair to him here, there wasn't much he missed out on anyway...

2021:
#27 Motlop - still waiting...

Which small forward would you have preferred here?

2022:
#11 Ollie Hollands - best 25
#30 Lachie Cowan - best 25
#32 Jaxon Binns - still waiting...

Could argue that Weddle was the better option here but given Voss wanted elite runners, he picked Ollie and he is part of our best 25 at the moment, not a bust.

Cowan is up and down with his AFL performances but still a regular in the team. But he had speed and decent kicking skills as a rebound defender. Not a bust yet.

Binns played well in a lot of VFL games last year but wasn't given much of a chance at AFL level due mainly to Ollie cementing his spot. Not quite a bust yet but getting there.

2023:
#29 Ashton Moir
#34 Billy Wilson

Jury still out on these two. Moir showcased his ability to impact games last year, just needs to build on his fitness and consistency. When he does, he will be a real pod in our forward line.

Wilson's attributes are speed and kicking... needs time but could come on as a rebound defender for us too.

Logan Morris is the glaring one that was missed here.

2024:
#3 Jagger Smith
#40 Harry O'Farrell
#43 Ben Camporeale
#54 Lucas Camporeale

Ticks the boxes in terms of crucial need with Jagger and HOF. Whether they develop into what we expect... only time will tell.

Ben + Lucas F/S they were always getting picked up.

Here's his high draft pick trade history:

#8 for Saad - most people are happy with this.. I didn't like it at the time. Still don't.
#6 for Cerra - could have drafted Gibcus here, but Cerra is one of our best mids.

Fisher + #17 for #21 + #25
Then brought Elijah in for a 2 pick downgrade (#26 for #28)

 

[blues4flag]

From the time Voss joined the club, we have endeavoured to bring in more run and speed, unfortunately the selections were very conservative and or off the mark

Yes. Austin's post draft interviews are easy to find, and there's been consistent themes:
Class and/or speed up forward (Durdin, Motlop, Moir)
Speed across the ground (Williams, Saad, Fogarty, Wilson)
Outside run (Acres, Hollands, Binns)
KPD depth (Parks, Lemmey, HOF through the draft, McDonald, Durdin, Young as stop gaps)

We've addressed outside run but thus far yet to see much on the other three fronts.

 

[ray8182]

We've had problems with Hughes... Silvagni... now it's becoming apparent with Austin...

SOS nailed the 2015 draft. Picked TDK in 2017 and Walsh was a safe pick at 1.

Austin has picked:

2020:
#37 Durdin - hasn't come on
#41 Carroll - out the door

To be fair to him here, there wasn't much he missed out on anyway...

2021:
#27 Motlop - still waiting...

Which small forward would you have preferred here?

2022:
#11 Ollie Hollands - best 25
#30 Lachie Cowan - best 25
#32 Jaxon Binns - still waiting...

Could argue that Weddle was the better option here but given Voss wanted elite runners, he picked Ollie and he is part of our best 25 at the moment, not a bust.

Cowan is up and down with his AFL performances but still a regular in the team. But he had speed and decent kicking skills as a rebound defender. Not a bust yet.

Binns played well in a lot of VFL games last year but wasn't given much of a chance at AFL level due mainly to Ollie cementing his spot. Not quite a bust yet but getting there.

2023:
#29 Ashton Moir
#34 Billy Wilson

Jury still out on these two. Moir showcased his ability to impact games last year, just needs to build on his fitness and consistency. When he does, he will be a real pod in our forward line.

Wilson's attributes are speed and kicking... needs time but could come on as a rebound defender for us too.

Logan Morris is the glaring one that was missed here.

2024:
#3 Jagger Smith
#40 Harry O'Farrell
#43 Ben Camporeale
#54 Lucas Camporeale

Ticks the boxes in terms of crucial need with Jagger and HOF. Whether they develop into what we expect... only time will tell.

Ben + Lucas F/S they were always getting picked up.

Here's his high draft pick trade history:

#8 for Saad - most people are happy with this.. I didn't like it at the time. Still don't.
#6 for Cerra - could have drafted Gibcus here, but Cerra is one of our best mids.

Fisher + #17 for #21 + #25
Then brought Elijah in for a 2 pick downgrade (#26 for #28)

You might be giving some context by mentioning names like weddle and Logan morris as players missed but we have to be careful about chery picking players taken later in the draft that look good. Every club would look bad by this standard.

Regarding weddle, my memory from his draft year was that he played as either key defender or third tall intercepting defender. It was a great bit of projection for the hawks to see the player he could become with his elite running but this wasnt a straight forward pick.

When being critical of our selections I would be more inclined to look purely at the players we took and assess there traits and whether they stack up for afl level and do they fit a list need.

An example would be Jackson binns. Run was a list need. But I think this was a poor pick because his traits as an under 18 player did not align with afl football. He is a very outside player with questionable disposal. This combination is a red flag for afl footy. Secondly his running style has no power or core strength to it, even for an outside player. Has to avoid contact because too easily stopped. Looks far too outside a player. Wingers at under 18 level are known as a risky proposition for afl footy.

Re. lemmey His size combined with lack of physicality or strength in contest, is another bad combination for afl footy.

I have some other gripes like recruiting so many half backs with lack of attention to small forwards, but in saying all the above l don’t think Austin has been as bad as some say. He’s had to try and plug a lot of holes because of previous failed drafting with high draft picks.


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[DangerousD]

70% of our issues are Recruiting
30% Coaching
I predict Voss will be replaced but a new coach will not have a massive difference. The list has not the leg speed, kicking skills, burst mids small fwds and key backs to adopt a change to a modern game plan

Im very torn as Voss would be telling Austin the types of players he wants to compliment his game style.

Seperate to that I’ve always thought Austin to lack creativity at the draft and have thought we overpay at the trade table and with contract $$$$

 

[DangerousD]

My view a new coach will not do much better because it is not a.top.4 list & barely top.8.

This is fair but you are assuming the new coach will persist with the same set up and I doubt they would.

It was reported on another page that Hewett will hit a trigger for another year, Cerra has recently re-signed, Cripps is on a long term deal, so is Walsh, all of these players suit Voss”s game style but a new coach could easily just say that’s too many mids with the same skill set and we need to move one on.

A new coach could value two quality key backs over two quality key forwards for example.

 

[The Return of the Paf]

In regards to list management, intent is no excuse for poor performance. Also, just because a player is in our best 22 does not automatically mean we should have drafted that player. I don't like to put the blame on one person but the last 5 years have been poor overall.

Silvagni needed a foil, not sacking. The players are in the same boat but we need draft capital.

 

[ray8182]

In regards to list management, intent is no excuse for poor performance. Also, just because a player is in our best 22 does not automatically mean we should have drafted that player. I don't like to put the blame on one person but the last 5 years have been poor overall.

Silvagni needed a foil, not sacking. The players are in the same boat but we need draft capital.

What was poor was the 4 years prior to Austin, 2016-2019. If Austin is poor, then these 4 years were an absolute disaster. So many high draft picks wasted with poor talent identification or poor list strategy. Failed in drafting/recruiting midfielders, half backs, half forwards, small forwards. Any medium size or small players of note would have been useful. Compare Austin’s record to this debacle and he looks like a genius. Carlton is still trying to put the pieces back together.


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