Non Lions Discussion 2024

[Perrip]

A lot of clubs are participating in Retro Round this week (here’s a sample); any idea what we’re doing?

Probably nothing, but it'd be cool to get the Fitzroy jumper every year for retro round

.

 

[KissKiss]

I reckon we should alternate each year between a Fitzroy and a Bears option. Pay respect to both sides of the history.

Im probably one of the few Melbourne based people who would be really happy for us to wear the more yellow based BB options in Melbourne. Its a cool strip and it provides a better clash perspective against a lot of teams

 

[Grasshopper17]

Honestly thought these would be pretty settled by now, but nope, another round, new seeds!

#1 - Sydney 141% (#1 in attack, #1 in defence - up 1). Despite losing, they get a bit of a kick from keeping a highly rated attack to only 79 points.
#2 - Western Bulldogs 124% (#4 in attack, #4 in defence - up 2). Really shoring up their defence the last couple of weeks. Yes it was wet in Geelong, but that didn't stop them putting 95 on the Cats.
#3 (up 2) - Brisbane 116% (#3 in attack, #10 in defence - up 2). Our 2 point win is scaled up because of our opponent.
#4 (up 2) - Fremantle 115% (#7 in attack - up 1, #2 in defence - down 1). Coming with a rush.

Carlton and Geelong are both tipped out of the seeds. Geelong slip back to #6 (111%, #5 in attack, #11 in defence - down 1), while Carlton slide all the way to #7 (110%, #2 in attack - down 1, #13 in defence).

St Kilda reclaim their spot in the defensive seedings - back in at #3. 90% but still #15 overall and #17 in attack. They replace Adelaide who drop out as quickly as they arrived. Now #6 defensively, 101% and #8 overall (up 1), #13 for attack (down 1). The Dogs have also replaced Melbourne after the Dees' shellacking yesterday. Back to #7 for defence, 98% and #12 overall, #14 in attack.

The model has us beating Gold Coast by 14 points on Saturday, but doesn't really take into account the Suns' huge divergence between home and away form. As an aside it also has Fremantle beating West Coast by 49 points in the derby this weekend, and these two results combined would be enough to elevate Fremantle above us on percentage, on the actual ladder.

No changes to the seeds this week!

#1 - Sydney 139% (#1 in attack, #1 in defence). The fact their loss was against a highly rated opponent lessens the impact on their rating considerably.

#2 - Western Bulldogs 131% (#2 in attack - up 2, #2 in defence - up 2). Coming with a rush now - their convincing win is actually further enhanced by the calibre of their opponent, meaning they get a massive boost to their rating.

#3 - Brisbane 120% (#3 in attack, #8 in defence - up 2). Bit of a surprise to see us get a considerable uptick to our rating as well. This is partly related to a better than expected performance against Gold Coast, but also by St Kilda eviscerating Essendon, who we are yet to play.

#4 - Fremantle 114% (#7 in attack, #4 in defence - down 2). Despite a comfortable 6 goal win, the quality of their opposition actually means their overall rating takes a hit. If only actual percentage worked like this!

Carlton slip 2 spots to #4 in the attack seedings. 108%, still #7 overall and #14 in defence (down 1).

On the defence side, St Kilda hold at #3. 95%, #14 overall (up 1) and #16 in attack (up 1). The model has us winning by 18 points, but probably doesn't quite do justice to the form the Saints are currently in. It also has Fremantle beating Essendon by 23 points, but again, this probably doesn't do justice to Essendon's current form.

If both these results came to pass, it would eat into our % advantage, but only slightly, reducing it from the current 2.26% to about 1.91%, or around 28 points.

 

[p4p1]

I reckon we should alternate each year between a Fitzroy and a Bears option. Pay respect to both sides of the history.

Im probably one of the few Melbourne based people who would be really happy for us to wear the more yellow based BB options in Melbourne. Its a cool strip and it provides a better clash perspective against a lot of teams

This would be great.
Personally I would love to see a game in the bears jumper from 92-96.
Rotating them every year would be a good money spinner I would have to imagine.

 

[McIvor]

This would be great.
Personally I would love to see a game in the bears jumper from 92-96.
Rotating them every year would be a good money spinner I would have to imagine.

I just hope we do something this year for Retro round. We have so much to work with and its an opportunity lost if we don't do anything. Yes, we do indigenous round well, like all 18 clubs, but these types of rounds are great for those like me that like seeing a retro / yesteryear look as a nod to the past of our great club.

 

[McIvor]

Stengle must have been off his trolley; great way to re-pay the club after locking you in for 5 more years.

 

[braddsey]

Probably nothing, but it'd be cool to get the Fitzroy jumper every year for retro round

.View attachment 2063294

I'd buy that one... provided it doesn't have a huge ugly green sponsor logo slapped across the top half!
(appreciate we weren't the team we are now and were desperate for whatever sponsor cash we could get... but surely any colour other than green would have worked better!).

 

[McIvor]

See I don’t understand why the tribunal didn’t reach exactly the same conclusion as it did with Uwland

The Rising Star nominee was cited for an incident on Brisbane star Lachie Neale

9

Lachie Neale

Age

31

Ht

178cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.0

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

15.5

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.7

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

28.3

5star

K

13.9

5star

HB

14.4

5star

M

4.6

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

12.0

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

7.4

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

CL

0.4

3star

during last weekend's QClash, with the MRO grading it as careless conduct, medium impact and high contact.

But the Tribunal cleared Uwland of the charge, noting it was not rough conduct and that "Uwland’s feet lost purchase with the ground, making it unlikely that his force was the ultimate cause of Neale making forceful contact with the ground with his head."

The same could have been said for Charlie that his “feet lost purchase with the ground” when Duggan pulled and lifted and twisted Charlie.

I don’t mind that Uwland got off at all but that second paragraph could easily have been applied to Charlie and I still don’t get why the Tribunal took such issue with Charlie save for the fact that Duggan was concussed which I still maintain was due to the hardness of the ground and his propensity for concussions. I mean I doubt the same commonsense would’ve been applied to Camerons as it clearly was to Uwlands.

Seriously baffling how the Tribunal reasoned in that first hearing.

 

[Nathan Barley]

See I don’t understand why the tribunal didn’t reach exactly the same conclusion as it did with Uwland



The same could have been said for Charlie that his “feet lost purchase with the ground” when Duggan pulled and lifted and twisted Charlie.

I don’t mind that Uwland got off at all but that second paragraph could easily have been applied to Charlie and I still don’t get why the Tribunal took such issue with Charlie save for the fact that Duggan was concussed which I still maintain was due to the hardness of the ground and his propensity for concussions. I mean I doubt the same commonsense would’ve been applied to Camerons as it clearly was to Uwlands.

Seriously baffling how the Tribunal reasoned in that first hearing.

Wow. The system just looks dumber every week

 

[snooplions]

I feel dumber every time I have to listen to David King speak.. openly and excitedly pumping up teams and players who draw high frees in their forward line saying it’s great and how much he loves it.. I don’t understand how he could say those words without a hint of sarcasm.

 

[Viceregal]

I don’t understand how he could say those words without a hint of sarcasm.

It could be just the set of filters he wears ... I mean we can watch a game and be utterly convinced that the umpires are helping out the other side as much as they can while at the same time the other guys are equally convinced that those same umpires (apparently known as 'Voldemorts' on the Suns' board ) in the same game are completely and utterly falling down everlastingly in love with their sweetheart Lions!

It takes a special kind of person to be able to view things through a truly neutral filter ... and while many would very much agree that Master King is 'special' it ain't in that way.

Alternatively he could be a privilaged jerk, a bought and paid for stooge, and impervious idiot, or a contemptalbe fool (note multiple options may be chosen if more than one apply)

 

[twhowler]

I've had another look at Carlton.

I think this week is their fork in the road.

If they get over the pies in Pendlebury's 400th that could easily get them back in to form.

From their, hawks at the mcg (tough but blues would go in faves), west coast away, saints docklands.

I think if they win this week every chance they go 4-0

 

[Section 5]

I've had another look at Carlton.

I think this week is their fork in the road.

If they get over the pies in Pendlebury's 400th that could easily get them back in to form.

From their, hawks at the mcg (tough but blues would go in faves), west coast away, saints docklands.

I think if they win this week every chance they go 4-0

I think i want the Pies to get it done for Pendles even though they are just 1 game out of the 8.
Hard to go for the Pies but the Blues should beat Eagles and Saints so we need them to drop at least 1, possibly 2 games.

The best option is the Lions win the 4 remaining games but that is a big ask.

 

[Elixuh]

I feel dumber every time I have to listen to David King speak.. openly and excitedly pumping up teams and players who draw high frees in their forward line saying it’s great and how much he loves it.. I don’t understand how he could say those words without a hint of sarcasm.

Because he is being told to say that by a producer. He’s like Biden on the teleprompter - “American is the greatest country in the world, repeat line, pause”.

 

[mpal6]

I feel dumber every time I have to listen to David King speak.. openly and excitedly pumping up teams and players who draw high frees in their forward line saying it’s great and how much he loves it.. I don’t understand how he could say those words without a hint of sarcasm.

Could be a double bluff from someone in the backend - put together a list of high frees footage which AFL would care about, roll out the village idiot with the biggest mouth to waffle on about it and then put that issue under the microscope for all clubs to escalate.

Next step is to find a neuroscientist who needs to talk about a study how accidental neck injuries could result in brain problems and how AFL needs to do more in this space. They'll start paying fines the other way if players lift their arms to initiate head high contacts.

 

[Sanchez365]

I am pretty against adding more grey areas to the rules, but the way players "uppercut" to get high tackles looks terrible and is a real blight on the game. Selwood at least when he started the trend kept his hands on the ball and just angled his elbows out, so mostly was his strength forcing tackling errors.

Players dropping the knees at incoming tackles and then upper cutting arms into their neck is one of the most frustrating things about the game. It's frustrating when the top level of the sport becomes completely disconnected from the lower levels, I imagine if you tried to do that in a state league you would get ypur head ripped off. It's reminds me of the farce that travelling in the NBA has become.

 

[mpal6]

I am pretty against adding more grey areas to the rules, but the way players "uppercut" to get high tackles looks terrible and is a real blight on the game. Selwood at least when he started the trend kept his hands on the ball and just angled his elbows out, so mostly was his strength forcing tackling errors.

Players dropping the knees at incoming tackles and then upper cutting arms into their neck is one of the most frustrating things about the game. It's frustrating when the top level of the sport becomes completely disconnected from the lower levels, I imagine if you tried to do that in a state league you would get ypur head ripped off. It's reminds me of the farce that travelling in the NBA has become.

AFL just has to do one or the other -
1. Tell players they'll pay frees against players initiating head high contact
2. Or if you get a head high contact free, you'll be off the ground for HIA. Suit yourself.

 

[Elixuh]

Treat it as staging. Fines and suspensions.

 

[BrainOfMorbius]

This might be the best one yet

 

[Dalions]

This might be the best one yet

Forever grateful to Essington for not selecting Hugh McCluggage.

 

[BrainOfMorbius]

That clip of Stringer gathering the ball in the goalsquare, swinging around to kick it back over his head but just flat out dropping it to the ground and having an air swing is just [chef's kiss]

I hear he's out of contract soon, gotta wonder what those talks will look like

 

[Dalions]

That clip of Stringer gathering the ball in the goalsquare, swinging around to kick it back over his head but just flat out dropping it to the ground and having an air swing is just [chef's kiss]

I hear he's out of contract soon, gotta wonder what those talks will look like

Some talk that he has already signed a contract extension which is why his form has dropped off recently.

 

[Darren Downunder]

I am pretty against adding more grey areas to the rules, but the way players "uppercut" to get high tackles looks terrible and is a real blight on the game. Selwood at least when he started the trend kept his hands on the ball and just angled his elbows out, so mostly was his strength forcing tackling errors.

Players dropping the knees at incoming tackles and then upper cutting arms into their neck is one of the most frustrating things about the game. It's frustrating when the top level of the sport becomes completely disconnected from the lower levels, I imagine if you tried to do that in a state league you would get ypur head ripped off. It's reminds me of the farce that travelling in the NBA has become.

I think the entire concussion, head high and dangerous tackle issue, needs to resolved through negotiation with coaches, clubs and players association.

Nobody wants concussions, or staging. If everybody agrees to set of conventions, then the AFL can implement some rules to make them explicit. But the agreement must come first.

No amount of rules or enforcement can work if players are being coached to undermine them.

 

[dlanod]

I think the entire concussion, head high and dangerous tackle issue, needs to resolved through negotiation with coaches, clubs and players association.

Nobody wants concussions, or staging. If everybody agrees to set of conventions, then the AFL can implement some rules to make them explicit. But the agreement must come first.

No amount of rules or enforcement can work if players are being coached to undermine them.

They don't even have to be coached to do it, the incentives are obvious to individual players - but the risks probably aren't, or they view it as negligible.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Looking at where we are and the fixtures remaining

Fixture analysis: Pies, Bombers face brutal runs in finals chase

Check out how difficult your team's run home is

www.afl.com.au

I would say if we win 3/4, IF! we are a decent chance still to finish top 2. The main dangers would be cats winning all of their remaining games (hardest is away v freo) or Freo percentage toppling ours.

The barracking index for this weekend:

Dogs v Dees - definitely want dees to win as they are way behind us and dogs flying. But we are 6 points clear of the dogs so if we drop behind them we have stuffed up the end of our season anyway and will struggle. DEES 4/10 care factor, occasional umpire complaint

Cats v Crows - massively behind the crows, cats could still easily overtake us. but fat chance the crows will do much. Still no Rankine to. CROWS 10/10 care factor, until they concede the first goal then just watch something else and shake your head each time you check the score on your phone

Pies v Blues - torn on this one. Loss for blues great for our top 4 chances. But a win for the pies keeps their season alive which we do NOT want come round 23. So i am saying JUST HOPE THEY BELT THE CRAP OUT OF EACH OTHER AND THEN DRAW

Port v Swans - get your swans flags out. a loss for port would make it very hard for them to get top 4 given their draw BLOODS 10/10 he's just ken, anywhere else he'd be a ten

Giants v hawks - honestly the hawks scare me. very wary of them getting on a role. and giants the sort of side if they lose this to come out snarling the week after and knock us off. AND YET they are very close to us on the ladder. Therefore i am saying GIANTS (for a narrow and unconvincing win)5/10 care factor, check the injuries list in the match report before deciding on mood

Bombers v dockers - another one where you will need to borrow a scarfe, this time an essendon one. throw it in the bin once they concede 8 goals in a row. bonus is if their season dies off round 24 they will be very flat DONS 10/10 but keeping our hopes in check

I really like this and have been thinking about it for much of the week. I must admit I have some of my own thoughts without necessarily being sold one way or the other.

Dogs v Dees - Think I'm on the Dees here. Want to see the Dogs revert to their consistent inconsistency. Also relieves a bit of immediate pressure on our ladder position.

Cats v Crows will be a boring game I think, Crows no chance you'd think but would be nice to be wrong on that.

Port v Swans yeah I kind of see your point, but also I'm thinking if Port get up, then it means last Sunday's game was perhaps more about Sydney falling away a bit than the Bulldogs going up a cog. Plus, if the Swans do somehow lose 2 more games it means our top 2 destiny is in our own hands without even needing to worry about Freo's percentage.

Pies v Blues - yeah I think I'm marginally leaning towards the Pies here. If they could somehow find some of their form maybe they're a chance to go up to Sydney and knock the Swans off as well. If we're good enough we still beat them at the MCG in Round 23 no matter what kind of form they're in and what they have to play for. Also the way Carlton have been going of late, a Collingwood win here won't necessarily mean they're back in form.

Giants v Hawks - Probably favouring the Hawks here, just due to the respective ladder positions. But only slightly given everything you've posted.

Bombers v Freo - Absolutely on the Essendon bandwagon here, but yeah a loss makes it more likely they're cooked by the time they fly up to play us. They'll lose this by 10 goals anyway so whatevs

Being the last game of the round sucks a bit... Maybe I'd have a different viewpoint of these games if I knew we'd won or lost!