Universal Love Not Boo-ing Goodes

[cmndstab]

I have to ask this question.

If Goodes is booed because of racism, how come no-one boos Bachar Houli, a practising Muslim?

Given recent current events, I would have thought booing with racist overtones would certainly have been commonplace in Houlis situation. Having said that, if he were to celebrate a goal by pretending to pull the pin out of an imaginary grenade and then lobbing it into the crowd, I would imagine that he too would attract plenty of boos. In addition, his "Invasion Day" statement did not help his image.

I'm sorry, but that's just a silly comment. Saying "well if player X of race Y is booed, but player A of race B isn't, then it's not because of racism" is just way off the mark.

Bachar Houli isn't using his position to stand up for his people. That's why he's not booed. Because he's not confronting the community at large on their prejudice in the way that Goodes has. If he was using his position to point out that Muslims can't even practice their belief without people making jokes at their expense about terrorism (as you have just done), and then pointed at a child making such a joke, he'd be getting booed off the park just like Goodes is.

And you might want to think twice in the future before likening an Aboriginal war dance to a Muslim simulating the lobbing of a grenade. That's not on, mate.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

You could certainly have a very intelligent debate about whether his methods are going to be successful or not.

But there is no intelligent argument that his methods justify the hatred being displayed towards him at the moment.

I agree with you 100% on this.

He's obviously struggling. Despite the fact I believe he has contributed some of the reasons (not all, some) why he is booed, there is no way I'd boo him.

Unless, he did something worthy of booing, then it's equal opportunity.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Because just like the girl, he did it on the spur of the moment without consideration to how it would look to others or what reaction he would get.

I believe this is incorrect.

I'll stand corrected but I thought he's planned it.

His motives were no doubt not as aggressive as it came across, he was just dumb enough not to consider how it would look to others.

 

[crowgirl]

I think the Goodes situation is pretty simple when you stop and look at it.

People don't like being confronted on their casually racist attitudes. And make no mistake about it - Australians, by and large, are casually racist. Adam Goodes has used his privileged position to challenge Australians on the treatment of indigenous people, and they don't like it. They can't boo him for that, but they can dislike him.

Then, when the pointing at a child thing happened, they latched onto it. Now they had a reason they could admit in public for booing him. It's not because they don't like a sportsman asking difficult questions of them, it's because he's a bully, picking on a poor ignorant child. And so on with all the other excuses. Because he's a thug, he's a dirty player, he's a protected species. As if those same labels don't apply to dozens of other AFL players who don't receive 1% of the booing Goodes does.

The fact is, people don't like Goodes because of he uses his position to shed light on legitimate racial issues. And they latch onto situations like the child, or perceived flaws like arrogance and dirty play because they're just more palatable excuses to boo him.


The fact that he has been so roundly booed by the Australian public that he has had to take a leave of absence is a national disgrace.

so good

 

[cmndstab]

I agree with you 100% on this.

He's obviously struggling. Despite the fact I believe he has contributed some of the reasons (not all, some) why he is booed, there is no way I'd boo him.

Unless, he did something worthy of booing, then it's equal opportunity.

The thing is, comments like "he has contributed to some of them" are not fair. It's a similar line of thought to the "don't wear revealing clothes if you don't want to be r*ped" attitude. I know that's not what you meant, but it's important to use appropriate language in this kind of discussion.

Goodes hasn't done anything wrong. The fact that people haven't liked his approach doesn't give any justification to him being booed, even if that is what has come of it.

 

[BrissyCrow]

Not quite true imo.

Personally, I wholeheartedly agree with the 'cause' (while I'll never agree with the skewed 100% victimhood statements which disempower)…I've worn the Close the Gap shirts etc etc. I'm not indigenous but I'll happily celebrate positive aspects of their culture such as wearing the indigenous guernsey to games.

It's not the cause or the message.

It is HOW Goodes tries to get it across…he is divisive, inflammatory, us vs them, provocative. You would have to be an imbecile to think his methods were going to have a positive effect.

Thank you. That is how I feel and what I have stated earlier. I used Tomic as an example of how not to raise an issue. Now Tomic has more people off side with him and that translates into less people listening.

 

[fabs33]

The attention had already been drawn to her at that point. For better or worse, it was done. The question was how he went forward from there. And the manner in which he did it was respectful, but refusing to back off from the real issue. He should be congratulated for the manner he handled that situation, not booed.

There are two points where I believe our opinions differ; first how the attention was drawn to her in the first place, I believe he's responsible and that he didn't consider the fact she was a child or perhaps even care.

Secondly, whilst I agree that he attempted to draw the public's attention to the underlying issue, he did nothing to help her when he decided to call her Australia's face of racism.

I think what we have in Goodes is someone who's passionate about a good cause who has lost some of the awareness of the collateral damage he's created.

P.S. I have never booed him or any other player, nor do I intend to boo him in the future either.

 

[cmndstab]

There are two points where I believe our opinions differ; first how the attention was drawn to her in the first place, I believe he's responsible and that he didn't consider the fact she was a child or perhaps even care.

Secondly, whilst I agree that he attempted to draw the public's attention to the underlying issue, he did nothing to help her when he decided to call her Australia's face of racism.

I think what we have in Goodes is someone who's passionate about a good cause who has lost some of the awareness of the collateral damage he's created.

P.S. I have never booed him or any other player, nor do I intend to boo him in the future either.

Fair enough. Certainly if I was in his shoes I would have expressed myself in a different way. But then, if I was in his shoes, growing up as a member of a disadvantaged and systemically repressed community, I guess I wouldn't be the same person.

Should I assume then that you don't think his conduct serves as the remotest justification for the hatred that has been directed his way this year, then? A bad look and not productive (or not as productive as it could have been if handled better), but not justification for the conduct of crowds around Australia?

 

[SmegHead]

Look, I'm not trying to say that you're deliberately racist. But you, and I, are both part of a culture that has, and continues to, treat indigenous people poorly for our entire history.

Being challenged to be part of the solution is completely reasonable. That doesn't mean you're being blamed, but yes, it is reasonable that you, as part of the Australian community, be asked to recognise what has happened, and contribute to the way forward.

I don't think of myself as racist, but I am a part of the community which has disadvantages indigenous Australians to an extreme level. I'm not saying that everyone needs to go and pick up a protest banner, but they should at least recognise that plight, and the right of an indigenous man to use his position to draw attention to it without being vilified.

I certainly recognise and empathise with Indigenous Australians and what their culture has been through. As I said earlier, growing up in regional SA I learned a heck of a lot about Aboriginal culture and a lot of it facinates and intrigues me.

I also think Adam Goodes is a champion of Aussie Rules and will be remembered as such. I may not agree with all his views but I have never met anyone that I agree with on everything. And it is true that the booing should end, it is tantamount to bullying, plain and simple. Which is why in the midst of the debate over racial politics, I think we forgot that most people booing are just doing it because they know they will get a reaction, nothing more. The rest are booing because they are morons.

It irks me that people come out and say "if you boo, you are racist and part of the problem".

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

Fair enough. Certainly if I was in his shoes I would have expressed myself in a different way. But then, if I was in his shoes, growing up as a member of a disadvantage community, I guess I wouldn't be the same person.

Should I assume then that you don't think his conduct serves as the remotest justification for the hatred that has been directed his way this year, then? A bad look and not productive (or not as productive as it could have been if handled better), but not justification for the conduct of crowds around Australia?

Mate, your first post this arvo is the reason why he gets booed. You know it, I know it, everyone else on here knows it or chooses to ignore it as the real reason.

 

[FR0GGY]

Should I assume then that you don't think his conduct serves as the remotest justification for the hatred that has been directed his way this year, then? A bad look and not productive (or not as productive as it could have been if handled better), but not justification for the conduct of crowds around Australia?

Where does it end though, is it free reign to do what he wants back?

 

[GROTTO]

Your prescence on this board, your constant bullshit attitude and your extremely poor choice of board name offends me. Welcome to the ignore button. You won't be missed.

Thanks. Top post.

 

[cmndstab]

It irks me that people come out and say "if you boo, you are racist and part of the problem".

This opinion is born of modern-day thinking about social justice. The line of thinking, as far as I can tell, goes that if you're participating in actions which are born from prejudice, even if you don't share that prejudice, you are helping to perpetuate it and therefore you are choosing to be a part of it.

I'm not sure where I sit on that line of thinking, but whether it's racist or not to boo "just for the reaction", it's clearly bullying as you say and not really what the game is about. It's a far cry from booing someone because he kicks goals against your team all the time, or laid a high bump on your star midfielder.

 

[cmndstab]

Where does it end though, is it free reign to do what he wants back?

Of course not. There are obvious boundaries that he shouldn't cross, as there are with everybody.

He's well and truly within those boundaries so far.

 

[crowgirl]

There are two points where I believe our opinions differ; first how the attention was drawn to her in the first place, I believe he's responsible and that he didn't consider the fact she was a child or perhaps even care.

Secondly, whilst I agree that he attempted to draw the public's attention to the underlying issue, he did nothing to help her when he decided to call her Australia's face of racism.

I think what we have in Goodes is someone who's passionate about a good cause who has lost some of the awareness of the collateral damage he's created.

P.S. I have never booed him or any other player, nor do I intend to boo him in the future either.

So we all agree with his message, but we'd prefer he did it in a different way cause he hurt some 13 year old girls feelings.

Imagine if we all had gotten behind him and said "yeah, it's not on for a 13 year old to be yelling racist comments at a football player!"...

And he's right in saying she's the face of Australia's racism... we all are and we need to recognise that to move forward.

lets all stop being so precious and get behind one another. We're all on the same team.

 

[FR0GGY]

Of course not. There are obvious boundaries that he shouldn't cross, as there are with everybody.

He's well and truly within those boundaries so far.

That's the thing it's all comes down to personal opinion, some people would say he's crossed the line, others say he's no where near it, as there isn't a hard and fast rule or line it gets complicated.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

So we all agree with his message, but we'd prefer he did it in a different way cause he hurt some 13 year old girls feelings.

Yes actually.

Try not insulting everyone that you want to appeal to.

 

[cmndstab]

That's the thing it's all comes down to personal opinion, some people would say he's crossed the line, others say he's no where near it, as there isn't a hard and fast rule or line it gets complicated.

There are several hard and fast lines in terms of what is legally acceptable, what is deemed acceptable by his employer (both Sydney and the AFL) who he represents. He's well and truly within the lines there. And of course, the fuzzier question of what is deemed acceptable by society at large.

The thing is, if he has stepped over the line, it's only by degrees. That doesn't make it alright to shower him with boos for months on end. Imagine if it was the other way around, and Goodes went and spewed hatred at white Australians for months on end. That wouldn't be acceptable, any more than this situation is.

That's one of the parts of Australian culture that shits me the most. The "I don't like what he did/said/stands for, so therefore I'm justified in any means I take to display my discontent" attitude. You see it everywhere, and it's bullshit.

 

[oldcrowgirl]

Years ago, I felt the same way as those who argue that they didn't steal land, force indigenous people off their land or rape and kill people and that it happened 200 years ago. The understanding dawned for me when I read that the last of the stolen generation are about 15 years younger than me! For indigenous people, these issues are not in the distant recesses of their minds, they still impact on their daily lives. This is one of the reasons why many indigenous people today are still heavily impacted by the injustices that have been done to their people over the last 200 years.

 

[fabs33]

Fair enough. Certainly if I was in his shoes I would have expressed myself in a different way. But then, if I was in his shoes, growing up as a member of a disadvantaged and systemically repressed community, I guess I wouldn't be the same person.

Should I assume then that you don't think his conduct serves as the remotest justification for the hatred that has been directed his way this year, then? A bad look and not productive (or not as productive as it could have been if handled better), but not justification for the conduct of crowds around Australia?

Yes that's right, I believe he's made mistakes but the booing has exceeded what he deserves by a fair distance.

 

[crowgirl]

Yes actually.

Try not insulting everyone that you want to appeal to.

I don't feel insulted by him

 

[TheLeftFist8]

The thing is, comments like "he has contributed to some of them" are not fair. It's a similar line of thought to the "don't wear revealing clothes if you don't want to be r*ped" attitude. I know that's not what you meant, but it's important to use appropriate language in this kind of discussion.

Goodes hasn't done anything wrong. The fact that people haven't liked his approach doesn't give any justification to him being booed, even if that is what has come of it.

Sorry, but no.

Of course it is fair to say that some of the reasons an individual may be unpopular may actually be caused by that individual.

 

[FR0GGY]

That's one of the parts of Australian culture that shits me the most. The "I don't like what he did, so therefore I'm justified in any means I take to display my discontent" attitude.

Not sure about this? How is it an Australian cultural thing?
How are they doing it by any means?
Sure anyone who is racially abusing him throw the book at them.

 

[PrideOf]

My $0.02.

Like many, many issues in our society, this isn't an open-and-shut case that revolves around one easy-to-find silver bullet.

I know Today Tonight will kill me for saying this, but very few issues in our world today can be summed up in one soundbite and fixed by the first ad break. This whole thing definitely can't.

This whole thing isn't solely about racism. Saying everyone who boos is a racist is pretty simplistic and easy to disprove by showing the numbers of non-white players who don't get booed. The booing started when Goodes was seen as a protected species who could snipe and get away with it from AFL House. He also used to cop flak for diving all over the field looking for cheap free kicks and getting them. Rightly or wrongly, he copped a backlash for his Australian of the Year speeches highlighting issues of his people and pointing out racial slurs from behind the fence. Some folks just don't want to hear they may be part of something that is being criticised - especially as pointedly as Adam did. So people booed him.

But the booing has continued when Goodes has wound back the sniping/diving/carry on and has toned down his public stance on racial issues. Considering Lindsay Thomas, Wobbie Gway and Angus Morefrees don't get routinely booed because of their natural tendency to dive - and Hodge and Lewis don't get routinely booed because they're gutless snipers - and Bachar Houli doesn't get booed for making public statements about his culture, would suggest people are still giving it to Goodes because they haven't forgotten about his behaviour listed above.

So with the continued booing, some of it is possibly racially-motivated. Some think he's a sanctimonious tosser who is a protected species on the field. Some are probably doing it because everyone else around them is and they don't have a backbone to not do it. Some are probably too stupid to think for themselves and think it's funny. Some are possibly too drunk to care. I reckon I've seen all five of these as I've gone to the footy for decades - and directed at more players than Goodes. And all five reasons say more about the person booing than the person on the field.

If there's any good to come out of this, and what this whole circus has done - in a roundabout way - is highlight the very race-based issues Goodes wanted to be brought into the open. It's just that he's had to pay a very, very big price to achieve it. Sadly.

Now that it's on the public agenda, hopefully some good comes out of it and people realise that Aboriginal/indigenous issues weren't solved when Kevvy Rudd stood up and said sorry ... and that they can be part of the solution.

 

[cmndstab]

Sorry, but no.

Of course it is fair to say that some of the reasons an individual may be unpopular may actually be caused by that individual.

That's not what I said, though. They're allowed to dislike him. That's what being unpopular means.

But booing him in the hateful manner they have? That's not okay. And unless he's done something demonstrably wrong, it's not reasonable to accuse him of being responsible for it, partially or otherwise.