Roast Our general fitness, strength and conditioning.

[CBombers17]

gary ablett senior could have been an on-baller midfielder.
always dominated when he went up the ground.

Not sure this is the thread but he did play on a wing in his early years from memory.

Edit; and it was electrifying. As quick and powerful a unit as you will see. Stringer plus...

 

[Schnitzengruben]

 

[CBombers17]

I'm not at the games but it appears we are fit enough. There's not much value in that if it doesn't appear in terms of work rate in the game though. Perhaps more investment in mental strength and conditioning could be valuable ?

 

[Lore]

I'm not at the games but it appears we are fit enough. There's not much value in that if it doesn't appear in terms of work rate in the game though. Perhaps more investment in mental strength and conditioning could be valuable ?

Do we have a club sports psychologist? I feel like that comes out of the footy dept soft cap and might have been lost in favour of part-time external experts.

I remember someone saying Bruce Reid used to get in their heads a bit but idk if that's quite the same thing anyway.

 

[CBombers17]

Do we have a club sports psychologist? I feel like that comes out of the footy dept soft cap and might have been lost in favour of part-time external experts.

I remember someone saying Bruce Reid used to get in their heads a bit but idk if that's quite the same thing anyway.

Don't know at the moment but a search suggests a David Reid who seems to have some other sporting affiliations as well.

Is the surname a coincidence? At Essendon one would think not but who knows

Edit; he's got some articles up on the website under 'mental skills mondays' so he seems to have had a good level of involvement with the club.

 

[CBombers17]

Do we have a club sports psychologist? I feel like that comes out of the footy dept soft cap and might have been lost in favour of part-time external experts.

I remember someone saying Bruce Reid used to get in their heads a bit but idk if that's quite the same thing anyway.

In a similar vein this article highlights some of these types of possible concerns over the mental application of the players

For someone like Stringer to be quoted "revealing he’d never been taught how to run long distance or covered such mileage before in AFL training"...at the age of 27 in full time pro sporting environments is ridiculous yet not remotely surprising (you've probably seen the article).

Let's face it, if we are waiting for Jake to unlock his full running potential there was a good chance of it never happening. So the question begs to be asked, how many other players have wandered down that path that apparently "just weren't up to it" - whatever limitation "it" may represent?

Plenty would assume that the club would have done basic things like:

*connecting players mentally to the importance of defensive running to team success - and personal success

*personally connecting to various processes athlete's go through to translate training performance to competition performance

*connecting the work they do on mindfulness with the extra capacity that means with pain tolerance and pushing limits

And so on...but like a heap of other stuff people assume the club does there is a strong chance they haven't.

‘Hadn’t ran over 2km in eight years’: Stringer’s stunning transformation to become AFL’s No. 1 player revealed

‘Hadn’t ran over 2km in eight years’: Star’s epic transformation to AFL’s No. 1 revealed

www.google.com

 

[Lore]

In a similar vein this article highlights some of these types of possible concerns over the mental application of the players

For someone like Stringer to be quoted "revealing he’d never been taught how to run long distance or covered such mileage before in AFL training"...at the age of 27 in full time pro sporting environments this is ridiculous and yet not remotely surprising (you've probably seen the article).

Let's face it, if we are waiting for Jake to unlock his full running potential there was a good chance of it never happening. So the question begs to be asked, how many other players have wandered down that path that apparently "just weren't up to it" - whatever limitation "it" may represent?


Plenty would assume that the club would have done basic things like:

*connecting players mentally to the importance of defensive running to team success - and personal success

*personally connecting to various processes athlete's go through to translate training performance to competition performance

*connecting the work they do on mindfulness with the extra capacity that means with pain tolerance and pushing limits

And so on...but like a heap of other stuff people assume the club does there is a strong chance they haven't.

‘Hadn’t ran over 2km in eight years’: Stringer’s stunning transformation to become AFL’s No. 1 player revealed

‘Hadn’t ran over 2km in eight years’: Star’s epic transformation to AFL’s No. 1 revealed

www.google.com

Hadn't seen the article but I listened to that pod when it first came out, I think someone posted it here or it was shared on Twitter. Might even be cliffs in his player thread. Frustrating that he gets fit and drops a few kilos and then gets injured and it's back to square one, every damned time.

Part of it is probably budget too. I mean sure we can employ a running coach, or send an existing coach to do a PD on how to coach them to run effectively, but when the budget is between that, a part time ruck coach, Lloyd showing them how to kick properly, a club psych – like I think we have to choose between stuff probably more than we ought to in an elite environment due to budget constraints.

Possibly an area we could make better use of the knowledge that we already have at the club too, including former players. I feel like McGrath would have been taught to run efficiently as part of his athletics background. Other players probably have other things to contribute – Stringer could share what he learned from that running coach too.

 

[CBombers17]

Hadn't seen the article but I listened to that pod when it first came out, I think someone posted it here or it was shared on Twitter. Might even be cliffs in his player thread. Frustrating that he gets fit and drops a few kilos and then gets injured and it's back to square one, every damned time.

Part of it is probably budget too. I mean sure we can employ a running coach, or send an existing coach to do a PD on how to coach them to run effectively, but when the budget is between that, a part time ruck coach, Lloyd showing them how to kick properly, a club psych – like I think we have to choose between stuff probably more than we ought to in an elite environment due to budget constraints.

Possibly an area we could make better use of the knowledge that we already have at the club too, including former players. I feel like McGrath would have been taught to run efficiently as part of his athletics background. Other players probably have other things to contribute – Stringer could share what he learned from that running coach too.

I think there's a possible opportunity for the club to reframe how it sees its role in terms of player development. In this situation one of our best players is also overweight and suffers a lot of injuries and doesn't play as well as he could because of it - we have 150 years of knowledge and enormous amount of human capital (and financial support) at our disposal- how can we help him overcome this (at 23 instead of 27) and become an top 10 in the AFL talent instead of a top 30? What would this mean to his output over the journey? Better output.

Rinse repeat on the while list. What are the challenges and what can we do about them. Right down to number 40 (or whatever). Some won't need it but if you couldn't tell Jake may need some support in these areas it shouldn't be your job to know I'm the first place.

I'm not sure an either/or scenario. Though of course as you say everything costs. But they could probably still maintain all the same coaches and just work on things over time with specialists (or as AFL clubs love -free students or volunteers!). I think this sort of individual player analysts and support a no brainer. And it's probably just not done through ignorance and that (some?) Clubs still don't understand humans/performance very well - or the 'getting inside their heads' part.

 

[Lore]

I think there's a possible opportunity for the club to reframe how it sees its role in terms of player development. In this situation one of our best players is also overweight and suffers a lot of injuries and doesn't play as well as he could because of it - we have 150 years of knowledge and enormous amount of human capital (and financial support) at our disposal- how can we help him overcome this (at 23 instead of 27) and become an top 10 in the AFL talent instead of a top 30? What would this mean to his output over the journey? Better output.

Rinse repeat on the while list. What are the challenges and what can we do about them. Right down to number 40 (or whatever). Some won't need it but if you couldn't tell Jake may need some support in these areas it shouldn't be your job to know I'm the first place.

I'm not sure an either/or scenario. Though of course as you say everything costs. But they could probably still maintain all the same coaches and just work on things over time with specialists (or as AFL clubs love -free students or volunteers!). I think this sort of individual player analysts and support a no brainer. And it's probably just not done through ignorance and that (some?) Clubs still don't understand humans/performance very well - or the 'getting inside their heads' part.

It's that idea of setting individual goals for each player - what are you good at, what do you need to improve on, what do you need to do to improve that, and how can we support you? Takes energy to do and to set up and maybe that's part of working with player managers and list managers as well as coaches and during exit interviews. Setting really clear expectations that will be different depending on what a player needs to succeed. Probably a point of difference with your average HR department in a for-profit business environment.

 

[CBombers17]

It's that idea of setting individual goals for each player - what are you good at, what do you need to improve on, what do you need to do to improve that, and how can we support you? Takes energy to do and to set up and maybe that's part of working with player managers and list managers as well as coaches and during exit interviews. Setting really clear expectations that will be different depending on what a player needs to succeed. Probably a point of difference with your average HR department in a for-profit business environment.

Absolutely. Outside of increased performance (ideally) a club with genuine individual player development programs could get a boost in terms of attracting talent as well. Leading the way in player welfare and actual high performance could resurrect our reputation as well.

I just phoned a friend over this and apparently our psychologist is a psychologist who works in sport (as opposed to a sports psychologist) and looks at the mental health and well being side of things wheras Geelong has a sports psychologist who actually sits in on the list meetings (or panel?). They are more likely to look at this sort.of stuff.

We spoke broadly about performance improvement through this type of player approach in the AFL and the costs are a concern with the caps down by 20% (I heard some bodgy shit about this but won't be saying it on here!) But in other sports some some names familiar to the club have recently asked what is possible for their players in the world of international Rugby - so there is interest and there would be links for that information to the club assuming those relationships are still strong.

 

[citizen-erased]

Do we have a club sports psychologist? I feel like that comes out of the footy dept soft cap and might have been lost in favour of part-time external experts.

I remember someone saying Bruce Reid used to get in their heads a bit but idk if that's quite the same thing anyway.

Burgess does this at melbourne.
Teaches them to push through the mental barriers.

For us though, it seems less about being able to push towards the end of limits and more reaching them.
We cant be so unfit that come the 3rd quarter in r5 and we're getting run off our feet. Or first quarter in rd1.

Competitiveness needs to be taught. I dont see a desire to be the best.

 

[CBombers17]

Burgess does this at melbourne.
Teaches them to push through the mental barriers.

For us though, it seems less about being able to push towards the end of limits and more reaching them.
We cant be so unfit that come the 3rd quarter in r5 and we're getting run off our feet. Or first quarter in rd1.

Competitiveness needs to be taught. I dont see a desire to be the best.

I heard we did this thing where the players (I think and coaching staff and possibly club admin) wrote the name on anonymous note about who they thought may be struggling the most each week and stuck in in a box. The names were then tallied up and then someone popped around a little later on just to 'say gedday' and see how the person was doing.

Have to admit Iaughed. Just the thought of some ****er strolling up to my cubicle to check in and hit me up with some kindness knowing my peers think I'm a sad ****er. Probably make me jumpy tbh .

 

[Yoda_]

I want to lay the blame on Dodoro as much as the next guy but when the kids get in the door and are perennially injured in some of the most critical years of development. It is no wonder we are a shambles and have no stars.. The 2010 trio had covid to contend with, Tsatas had his injury issues in his first year in the AFL. Look at Jayden Davey. Im sure if you go back every year the same repeat things happen. I remember we continually waited for the Jetta's, Gumbleton's to come good and tried to play them when fit but just couldnt. get. right.


Easy enough to aim at the s&c staff but not all are them. seems a few have been impact injuries but the mismanagement of Parish, Sheil, Reid's injuries is down to planning and rehab.

Just another area that all makes sense why we are as shit as we are for so long

 

[Milanista28]

I bet the internal numbers would show we're comparable to the better teams, we do not have bottle, our players are mental short people, they're like this because we keep selecting them, they don't know what fighting and scrapping for their footballing lives actually is.

 

[FlyingV]

I’ve been saying this for 10+ years. We have not prioritised aerobic runners at our football club. Whether that be building aerobic base or (and imo) most importantly drafting players who can smash a 2km time trial.

Only recently has this changed… and what do you know? Durham, Martin, Duursma and I’ll throw Caldwell in there are all now our most important players - immediately our best runners.

Beggars belief. This won’t change overnight, we are decades behind the likes of Sydney, Geelong, Hawks and Richmond who figured this out. Carlton have too with the additions of Acres, Hollandsx2, Cottrell etc.

Kills me.

 

[Yoda_]

Who was the last key position player (before Lewis Hayes) to play consistent football in there first two years at the club?

I cant remember a guy consistently putting it together as much as Lewis has and it has showed with his rapid growth.



Tun to the midfield group and apart from Perkins, I cant remember a first rounder who has played as much in there first two years in the seniors.


Im not saying its S&C but the coincidence is remarkable. IS this another area we just take lightly ?

 

[eth-dog]

Who was the last key position player (before Lewis Hayes) to play consistent football in there first two years at the club?

I cant remember a guy consistently putting it together as much as Lewis has and it has showed with his rapid growth.



Tun to the midfield group and apart from Perkins, I cant remember a first rounder who has played as much in there first two years in the seniors.


Im not saying its S&C but the coincidence is remarkable. IS this another area we just take lightly ?

Daniher basically didn't miss, Eyre played most of the VFL games until getting cut, Zerk-Thatcher played plenty. Not sure how many were drafted in between

 

[boncer34]

Who was the last key position player (before Lewis Hayes) to play consistent football in there first two years at the club?

I cant remember a guy consistently putting it together as much as Lewis has and it has showed with his rapid growth.



Tun to the midfield group and apart from Perkins, I cant remember a first rounder who has played as much in there first two years in the seniors.


Im not saying its S&C but the coincidence is remarkable. IS this another area we just take lightly ?

You haven't taken last night well mate.

 

[Yoda_]

You haven't taken last night well mate.

nope, just fed up with being the laughing stock. Every. Single. Year. And nothing changes

 

[Mercurial89]

nope, just fed up with being the laughing stock. Every. Single. Year. And nothing changes

Do you follow other sports?
Maybe invest some more time into one of those and then when this team eventually gets it's act together you can enjoy it.

 

[Mootsy]

nope, just fed up with being the laughing stock. Every. Single. Year. And nothing changes

I have the cats as a 2nd team, but I grew up initially going for them and changing to Essendon in the mid 90s because I’ve always been a fan of both teams, so I guess that makes it easier for me maybe, lol.

 

[Call Me Cake]

nope, just fed up with being the laughing stock. Every. Single. Year. And nothing changes

Nothing changes? Nothing? What hyperbole. We have made in-roads this year. We've had more closer matches and less frequent blowouts. Where there have been moments in the past where we would drop our heads and let an oppo lead grow, we've picked ourselves up and either grounded out a win or come close to it.

For the first time in a long time there have been signs of a system and a respect to professionalism. For the first time we've had some selection integrity where a Heppell or Wright being out for 2 weeks would've been unthinkable. For what was a young team on the park (younger on raw age average behind Norf, Eagles, Hawks) they fought to the end for a 1 point loss which can happen to any team.

The team was predicted to finish on the bottom off the back of what outsiders saw of our finish to last year all the way up until Round 1. Managed to get on a run to have the best start to a season since 2004, challenged the Swans when they were hot to the end and did so by beating teams people had above them.

2nd year for the coach from what was a complete overhaul of the club. The road was gonna be a long one and development and further list building needed to happen. The fact that you placed a higher expectation off the back of them overachieving is on you, not them. Our supporters are the most reactionary supporters in the league and you're not disproving that stereotype in the slightest. The last 10 years has nothing to do with 2023+. Have some persepective.

 

[Old Campaigner]

nope, just fed up with being the laughing stock. Every. Single. Year. And nothing changes

You probably need a different hobby

 

[Yoda_]

Do you follow other sports?
Maybe invest some more time into one of those and then when this team eventually gets it's act together you can enjoy it.

Tottenham in the EPL so ****ed there and was Philli in the NBA so may as well look to stage shows

 

[Yoda_]

Nothing changes? Nothing? What hyperbole. We have made in-roads this year. We've had more closer matches and less frequent blowouts. Where there have been moments in the past where we would drop our heads and let an oppo lead grow, we've picked ourselves up and either grounded out a win or come close to it.

For the first time in a long time there have been signs of a system and a respect to professionalism. For the first time we've had some selection integrity where a Heppell or Wright being out for 2 weeks would've been unthinkable. For what was a young team on the park (younger on raw age average behind Norf, Eagles, Hawks) they fought to the end for a 1 point loss which can happen to any team.

The team was predicted to finish on the bottom off the back of what outsiders saw of our finish to last year all the way up until Round 1. Managed to get on a run to have the best start to a season since 2004, challenged the Swans when they were hot to the end and did so by beating teams people had above them.

2nd year for the coach from what was a complete overhaul of the club. The road was gonna be a long one and development and further list building needed to happen. The fact that you placed a higher expectation off the back of them overachieving is on you, not them. Our supporters are the most reactionary supporters in the league and you're not disproving that stereotype in the slightest. The last 10 years has nothing to do with 2023+. Have some persepective. Nothing changes. Pfft. Give it a rest.

The hope is what drives me insane. Win a few games, look like things are changing and then same old Essendon in new financial year every year pains me.

You just knew we were going to lose on the weekend but still pains me when you know we should be beating such an inept Suns team at our home ground. We are just more inept.


The fact we brought in Goldstein (should retire), Gresham, McKay, Duursma and are no better or worst says that the list is just the same old same old.

Maybe your last paragraph is right but in saying that, I can’t see to much changing from the list perspective