List Mgmt. Our Trade/FA, Suburban & Country Town Thread

[Bianconeri]

That’s because if Mitchell wasn’t playing, Adams was the first choice replacement and if Adams wasn’t playing a forward was selected. We don’t have that luxury anymore

We don’t have Adams but we’re still likely get a Lipinski or Crisp to replace Mitchell before Finn so the luxury is still there.

Why do you think that our recruiting department would change their philosophy of the past 20 years which is drafting best available, to drafting for needs? That makes no sense.

Do you think our club has changed philosophy to add more mature ages?

 

[Apex36]

We don’t have Adams but we’re still likely get a Lipinski or Crisp to replace Mitchell before Finn so the luxury is still there.

You think that Lipinski is capable of replacing the inside work that Mitchell does? I mean, even Crisp is a stretch, his run and carry is far more valuable than any inside work he would provide. If Fin is performing to the standard reports have him at this preseason then I don’t see either of those two being ahead of him for that inside role.

Do you think our club has changed philosophy to add more mature ages?

Not particularly from a drafting perspective, no. From a SSP standpoint absolutely, but as it stands that’s an entirely separate entity to the draft so it’s unsurprising that the recruitment philosophy would be different too.

 

[Bianconeri]

You think that Lipinski is capable of replacing the inside work that Mitchell does?

You think Macrae is? So far Lipniski is more proven inside mid.

I mean, even Crisp is a stretch, his run and carry is far more valuable than any inside work he would provide. If Fin is performing to the standard reports have him at this preseason then I don’t see either of those two being ahead of him for that inside role.

Crisp run and carry is his most valuable asset but it’s also the area we have the best proven depth in. We’re more likely to bring a Noble in to replace the run and carry than Fin to replace the inside work.

Not particularly from a drafting perspective, no. From a SSP standpoint absolutely, but as it stands that’s an entirely separate entity to the draft so it’s unsurprising that the recruitment philosophy would be different too.

So you can admit we’re capable of changing strategies after years, good.

 

[Apex36]

You think Macrae is? So far Lipniski is more proven inside mid.

At this point, yeah I do. Macrae has proven himself to be an extremely effective extractor in the VFL, and Lipinski is more on an outside on-baller. At some point we need to back Fin in to make the step up to senior level. How the hell does he become “proven” unless he’s given the opportunity?

Crisp run and carry is his most valuable asset but it’s also the area we have the best proven depth in. We’re more likely to bring a Noble in to replace the run and carry than Fin to replace the inside work.

Strongly disagree.

So you can admit we’re capable of changing strategies after years, good.

come on man, you know this is a flimsy argument. Whether or not we’re capable of changing is one thing, whether we actually have is another, and there’s absolutely no evidence to show that the best available philosophy has changed, otherwise we wouldn’t have recruited two draftees to an area of the ground that’s already regarded as one of our biggest strengths.

 

[sr36]

That’s because if Mitchell wasn’t playing, Adams was the first choice replacement and if Adams wasn’t playing a forward was selected. We don’t have that luxury anymore

You only need 4 stoppage mids to cover your midfield rotations, so with Mitchell, JDG, Nick, Pendles, Crisp and Lippa we can still bring in a flanker to replace an injured mid if that's preferable. Plus suggestions that McCreery will get some midfield minutes this year. Finn has got to push past someone or make himself a more attractive selection than adding in one of the flankers and shifting roles within the 22. I hope he does, as Mitchell and Pendles won't last forever.

 

[Bianconeri]

At this point, yeah I do. Macrae has proven himself to be an extremely effective extractor in the VFL, and Lipinski is more on an outside on-baller. At some point we need to back Fin in to make the step up to senior level. How the hell does he become “proven” unless he’s given the opportunity?

Many players get that chance. Lipinski’s is more outside but he too played as an inside mid in the VFL.

Strongly disagree

You can disagree all you want but literally what happens last season.

come on man, you know this is a flimsy argument

Collingwood is probably the most changed football club in the league over the past 3
Seasons yet you want to hang to argue we won’t in specific just because. It was barely relevant to the point I was as well but go off.

 

[pablo disco bar]

Farkn me

Re Finn

Just play him

Ffs

 

[Jen2310]

I think we can agree its Fin Szn.
I'm with pablo disco bar just play him.

 

[Gaspard]

All the discussion about our extraction resources skate over just how good Adams is. He is an elite player, acquired at considerable cost, and will not be replaced by a reasonable player. Mitchell is a bit better, so he was a sensible target, but now we only have the one elite extractor. If he is injured, we are suddenly a much worse team. Other players can do his job, but nowhere near as well.

Macrae looks the best of the backups for the job, and should probably be inserted into Adams' role of last year, but he would be the Mitchell understudy, not a true Adams replacement. The other midfielders, and there are many, are very dependent on the extractor. They are not ideal in that role, though the likes of Pendlebury, Crisp or DeGoey, even Daicos do it well. McCreery is a fairly low posession player and clearly not an extractor. He is more like DeGoey.

This is a very active discussion, and I don't see who we have as a clear solution, just some prospects.

 

[sr36]

All the discussion about our extraction resources skate over just how good Adams is. He is an elite player, acquired at considerable cost, and will not be replaced by a reasonable player. Mitchell is a bit better, so he was a sensible target, but now we only have the one elite extractor. If he is injured, we are suddenly a much worse team. Other players can do his job, but nowhere near as well.

Macrae looks the best of the backups for the job, and should probably be inserted into Adams' role of last year, but he would be the Mitchell understudy, not a true Adams replacement. The other midfielders, and there are many, are very dependent on the extractor. They are not ideal in that role, though the likes of Pendlebury, Crisp or DeGoey, even Daicos do it well. McCreery is a fairly low posession player and clearly not an extractor. He is more like DeGoey.

This is a very active discussion, and I don't see who we have as a clear solution, just some prospects.

My take is that adding in someone who can roll through the midfield would be a good thing for the future as we've got some oldies in there, but in the short term, JDG and Nick will continue to improve and alongside Mitchell, Pendles and Crisp we'll have an awsome midfield next year with or without Finn or someone else who might get themselves into the rotation.

 

[Mollythedolly]

Yes, which was essentially argued in the latter part of that post.

Hardly, but happy for you to think that.

 

[Bianconeri]

Hardly, but happy for you to thank that.

I’m also happy for to continue to but into points you can’t comprehend.

 

[RobJD]

You think that Lipinski is capable of replacing the inside work that Mitchell does? I mean, even Crisp is a stretch, his run and carry is far more valuable than any inside work he would provide. If Fin is performing to the standard reports have him at this preseason then I don’t see either of those two being ahead of him for that inside role.

Not particularly from a drafting perspective, no. From a SSP standpoint absolutely, but as it stands that’s an entirely separate entity to the draft so it’s unsurprising that the recruitment philosophy would be different too.

When the team is in the premiership window it makes sense to recruit ready made/mature players who can perform specific roles, as they are much more likely to have an immediate impact and that's what the team needs if it is to sustain high performance levels. This isn't to say that we should abandon best available at the draft, rather that we tune our recruitment approach to a more shorter term focus on recruiting for the future - for now, focussing on the SSP for top up players is a significantly better approach than using those list spots for speculative late draft picks.

 

[Apex36]

Many players get that chance. Lipinski’s is more outside but he too played as an inside mid in the VFL.

I think our coaching panel values Lipinskis endurance as a mid/flanker more than as an on-baller. I think they’ll try to use him in the WHE role, much like they were intending to last year before he got injured.

You can disagree all you want but literally what happens last season.

Circumstances have changed, no Adams and Fin with a full preseason under his belt shifts the selection dynamic signicantly.

Collingwood is probably the most changed football club in the league over the past 3
Seasons yet you want to hang to argue we won’t in specific just because. It was barely relevant to the point I was as well but go off.

Yet our drafting strategy this year 100% indicates that we’re still going best available as we have done for the past 2 decades. It’s weird that you’re arguing against something that’s so clear to see.

 

[Mollythedolly]

When the team is in the premiership window it makes sense to recruit ready made/mature players who can perform specific roles, as they are much more likely to have an immediate impact and that's what the team needs if it is to sustain high performance levels. This isn't to say that we should abandon best available at the draft, rather that we tune our recruitment approach to a more shorter term focus on recruiting for the future - for now, focussing on the SSP for top up players is a significantly better approach than using those list spots for speculative late draft picks.

We have a strong history of spreading our draft focus looking at delisted and fringe players going back to Chad Rintoul and Scotty Cummings under MM's early tenure, and even before. Only thing that's changed is the mechanism to do it since the establishment of the SSP process rather than taking them via the national, pre-season or rookie drafts.

 

[sr36]

We have a strong history of spreading our draft focus looking at delisted and fringe players going back to Chad Rintoul and Scotty Cummings under MM's early tenure, and even before. Only thing that's changed is the mechanism to do it since the establishment of the SSP process rather than taking them via the national, pre-season or rookie drafts.

When's the last time we only drafted 2 18 year olds?

 

[The Phantom]

At the last Club42, Craig Kelly told us that our ability to access top picks at the draft was going to be very limited based on anticipated finishing position and compromised drafts due to northern states assistance packages, North Melbourne and Tassie.

He stated out right that we were looking to other mechanisms to acquire talent, which I think we can see in our use of the SSP, and also apologised in advance for hard decisions that would be made in this he future.
I suspect the Adams and Ginivan trades are examples of this.
It’s not a surprise to me we didn’t load up on raw late pick 18 year olds in light of this.

 

[OniAu]

At the last Club42, Craig Kelly told us that our ability to access top picks at the draft was going to be very limited based on anticipated finishing position and compromised drafts due to northern states assistance packages, North Melbourne and Tassie.

He stated out right that we were looking to other mechanisms to acquire talent, which I think we can see in our use of the SSP, and also apologised in advance for hard decisions that would be made in this he future.
I suspect the Adams and Ginivan trades are examples of this.
It’s not a surprise to me we didn’t load up on raw late pick 18 year olds in light of this.

Going into more compromised drafts i wouldve been concerned if we had the same management from 2020. Wright, Kelly and Fly along with the assistant coaches, ive never felt more comfortable.

I love this foresight the club is taking , our biggest downfall of the 2020 trade debacle was just papering over the cracks until they became gaping holes later on.

 

[Gone Critical]

All the discussion about our extraction resources skate over just how good Adams is. He is an elite player, acquired at considerable cost, and will not be replaced by a reasonable player. Mitchell is a bit better, so he was a sensible target, but now we only have the one elite extractor. If he is injured, we are suddenly a much worse team. Other players can do his job, but nowhere near as well.

Macrae looks the best of the backups for the job, and should probably be inserted into Adams' role of last year, but he would be the Mitchell understudy, not a true Adams replacement. The other midfielders, and there are many, are very dependent on the extractor. They are not ideal in that role, though the likes of Pendlebury, Crisp or DeGoey, even Daicos do it well. McCreery is a fairly low posession player and clearly not an extractor. He is more like DeGoey.

This is a very active discussion, and I don't see who we have as a clear solution, just some prospects.

Agree with this, there is no one in the young mids vying for a possie who looks like they will measure up to Adams standards. We underestimate how good he has been.

I look at things differently from what most are expressing here in that I dont see any "next in line" for the mids who want to grab a spot. I see a logjam and a dogfight, essentially the same as you would see on all lists. Finn isnt next cab off the rank, he is in a fight for his footy life. Young blokes, 1st season on the list, should be looking to go straight past Finn.

Harry D should be saying to himself " I want senior games this season and a good few, I reckon I am AFL standard and I know for the mids who are good usually get games early even in top teams". One of his goals should be to go straight past Finn, Carmichael, Allen, Harrison, Reef and Richards and claim a spot. Look at the last 10 premiers. They all had 1-3 year players in their team except Hawks of 2014. Look at 2010 and the lead up. Blair, Caff, Sidey and Beams didnt say Stanley and Cooke have been getting a few games before I arrived and have promise, I will bide my time til they have had their chance. Nah take that chance straight off them

The one I am strongest on is Allen as I reckon he has most potential. Still thats a dirty word and he wouldn't want to finish 24 without a good number of AFL games to his credit. Finn, Reef and Carmy are the ones in the crosshairs, with Richards almost gone already. Uncontracted come years end with a good few others. None of them may be with us in 25. They will need 10 games minimum to have a case for staying. Harrison and Allen should get games this year if they are going to be good. The spot is there for anyone from Finn to Harry, no ones at the front of the queue

 

[SchuPie]

Our bid on Caiden Cleary seems to indicate that we valued some more inside grunt/extraction.

Wondering if we'd have taken Hardeman if he'd have slipped one more pick - was our interest off halfback or wing?

 

[Mollythedolly]

Agree with this, there is no one in the young mids vying for a possie who looks like they will measure up to Adams standards. We underestimate how good he has been.

I look at things differently from what most are expressing here in that I dont see any "next in line" for the mids who want to grab a spot. I see a logjam and a dogfight, essentially the same as you would see on all lists. Finn isnt next cab off the rank, he is in a fight for his footy life. Young blokes, 1st season on the list, should be looking to go straight past Finn.

Harry D should be saying to himself " I want senior games this season and a good few, I reckon I am AFL standard and I know for the mids who are good usually get games early even in top teams". One of his goals should be to go straight past Finn, Carmichael, Allen, Harrison, Reef and Richards and claim a spot. Look at the last 10 premiers. They all had 1-3 year players in their team except Hawks of 2014. Look at 2010 and the lead up. Blair, Caff, Sidey and Beams didnt say Stanley and Cooke have been getting a few games before I arrived and have promise, I will bide my time til they have had their chance. Nah take that chance straight off them

The one I am strongest on is Allen as I reckon he has most potential. Still thats a dirty word and he wouldn't want to finish 24 without a good number of AFL games to his credit. Finn, Reef and Carmy are the ones in the crosshairs, with Richards almost gone already. Uncontracted come years end with a good few others. None of them may be with us in 25. They will need 10 games minimum to have a case for staying. Harrison and Allen should get games this year if they are going to be good. The spot is there for anyone from Finn to Harry, no ones at the front of the queue

Adams himself didn’t measure up to those standards when he first arrived. It wasn’t till his 2nd year at the club (his 4th overall) that he stated showing the potential to hit those “standards”. While i’m not sure too many underestimate how good he’s been, I’m also not sure too many are expecting any of the potential replacements to immediately fill that void completely.

 

[Mollythedolly]

When's the last time we only drafted 2 18 year olds?

2022.

 

[Jen2310]

2022.

Thats right. Allan and Ryan. Given Richards is mature age when drafted.

 

[Mollythedolly]

Thats right. Allan and Ryan. Given Richards is mature age when drafted.

Yep, 2017 & 2019 similarly. In 2015 we only took 1 18yo at the draft.

 

[Jen2310]

Yep, 2017 & 2019 similarly. In 2015 we only took 1 18yo at the draft.

2015, I didnt realise Phillips was an overager, but we took sier and crocker

2019, we took 3.

Rantall, Bianco and Ruscoe.

2017, technically we took 3, if you include matching a bid for Tyler.