Patrick Smith caught out again

[NWTYRX]

It would have been different if he wasn't on an AFL list. All this stuff happened before Pratt was president of Carlton

 

[SA Blue]

Ben Cousins never got charged with anything and he was sacked and delisted.

He was charged with running away from the Booze bus.

 

[Bee]

take your one-eyed blinkers off people.

what Patrick is saying about Pratt is true. He has been found guilty of the biggest price fixing cartel in our history.

700 Million dollars of OUR money he and his mates stole.

If Pratt is allowed to get away with this by Carlton and the AFL, how can they possibly punish anyone for a wrong doing?

If Pratt is allowed to remain, then it is open slather.

Anything is allowed.

As a lifelong Carlton supporter i would state the above if Pratt was President of Carlton or Collingwood or Sydney or whoever.

What he did was not trivial. He should go.

So, do you think we should give the money back he has so far given to the club because it's (by your opinion) tainted. Or are you willing to accept all that and then just ask Dick to leave?

What about all the good he has done since being President, shall we also forget all that as well?

Dick Pratt has put years of love, work and money into this club. Not just in the past 12 months or so, but a lifetime of it.

 

[sherb]

700 Million dollars of OUR money he and his mates stole.

mate u are wasting your time with this mob. according to them a little 700 million dollars worth of price fixing is no big deal - as long as he is doing a good job at Carlton.

I would appreciate you providing documented proof that an amount of 700 million dollars was stolen.

And, no, an arbitrary figure being bandied around by a legal firm for a class action is not proof.

 

[TerryWallet]

So, do you think we should give the money back he has so far given to the club because it's (by your opinion) tainted. Or are you willing to accept all that and then just ask Dick to leave?

What about all the good he has done since being President, shall we also forget all that as well?

Dick Pratt has put years of love, work and money into this club. Not just in the past 12 months or so, but a lifetime of it.

Richard Pratt has been tremendous for the Carlton FC.

I don't expect Carlton to sack him. Clubs are perennially and notoriously self serving.

On the other hand, the AFL are an independant body running the biggest sporting business in the land. And that business( AFL footy) belongs to the people. The people of 16 clubs. The same people that Richard Pratt ripped off.

If the AFL do nothing about Pratt, they surrender the right to pontificate about anyone or anybody.

The AFL is all about public image. It is a big business. Pratt knows all about big business. It is a tough game.

He got caught. He must go.

 

[AlecDuncan]

mate u are wasting your time with this mob. according to them a little 700 million dollars worth of price fixing is no big deal - as long as he is doing a good job at Carlton.

Any amount of price-fixing is wrong, but you should be wary of bandying the $700M figure. It's an guesstimate from a lawyer, it's shared between Visy and Amcor, and who knows what percentage each is liable for? I wouldn't assume 50/50.

It's a big deal, but it's not a criminal offence, and it doesn't disqualify Pratt as a company director. He did and will take his lumps in court and that's the only law that matters. Beyond that it's a matter between him and the members, and we're all very happy together thanks.

You are a member Nutcase, aren't you?

 

[AlecDuncan]

It is not just a matter for the courts and thats the end of it. By that logic, you could have Carey or Ablett as your President. By that logic, you could have Vizard as president. By that logic, you could have Chopper Reid as president.

Our first comparison of Pratt to Chopper Reid.

You are officially a ****wit.

 

[Dramoth]

take your one-eyed blinkers off people.

what Patrick is saying about Pratt is true. He has been found guilty of the biggest price fixing cartel in our history.

700 Million dollars of OUR money he and his mates stole.

If Pratt is allowed to get away with this by Carlton and the AFL, how can they possibly punish anyone for a wrong doing?

If Pratt is allowed to remain, then it is open slather.

Anything is allowed.

As a lifelong Carlton supporter i would state the above if Pratt was President of Carlton or Collingwood or Sydney or whoever.

What he did was not trivial. He should go.

Mate... As a life long supporter of the blues, I think that you are just a waste of space and an outright oxygen thief like Fatprick Smith.

Dick Pratt, who is also a lifelong blues supporter and an ex-player for the club personally did nothing wrong. Visy, his company got dinged for price fixing and because it is owned by Dick, thats all that it takes for a simple minded moron like you to add 2 and 2 together and get 700 million.

Dick has put more into the club than you, I and every other blues fan on this forum will ever be able to do.

He has raised the fortunes of the club back up to where we belong, and if we listened to whining little **** burglers like you and nutcase, we would still have Denis Pagin, no Judd and no future except for a possible move interstate to save the club and get a huge handout from the AFL so we can survive.

Now, thanks to Dick and the guys that he brought into the club to get us back were we belong, we are well on the way and looking like we might be up for #17 sooner rather than never.

mate u are wasting your time with this mob. according to them a little 700 million dollars worth of price fixing is no big deal - as long as he is doing a good job at Carlton.

Going by that logic it wouldn't matter if the prime minister was completely crooked as long as he was running the country well.

And as for you nutcase... you are purely and simply denying some village somewhere in the world of a perfectly good idiot.

As a Carlton supporter, I would expect a little more support for the guy who has saved the club from extinction. But no... you are bleating because they sacked the guy who you give a spit and polish to every night in your dreams who was ruining the club and instilling a culture of failure that was playing into the hands of the AFL for relocating us to Darwin or somewhere else equally barren and inhospitable.

You have lost all credibility amongst the posters on this board with your constant 'Denis is the man' type posts and 'We should never have gotten rid of him'.

If we still had that idiot at the helm, we would have Kreuzer and we possibly would have gotten Masten as well because we wouldnt have gotten Judd and we would be looking at yet another year of tired out cliches and finishing in the bottom 2 again.

I want our club back in the 8... I want to see us winning premierships again and I couldnt see us doing that under Smorgan and Pagan...

So, why dont you crawl back under the rock where you have been hiding for the past couple of months and stay there (And take that other idiot with you for company) because the club doesnt need people like you pulling us down.

 

[TerryWallet]

Our first comparison of Pratt to Chopper Reid.

You are officially a ****wit.

Read what i said properly.

Your response to nutcase888 showed intelligence and thought.

this one didn't.

 

[TerryWallet]

Dramoth,

lol

nice tirade

 

[Dramoth]

Read what i said properly.

Your response to nutcase888 showed intelligence and thought.

this one didn't.

Because at times, nutcase has actually shown intelligence and thought behind some of his posts, while yours are just crap...

 

[Dramoth]

Dramoth,

lol

nice tirade

I bet that is a nervous and embarassed laugh as well...

Maybe I got it wrong and it is you thats depriving a village somewhere in the world of their idiot.

Either way, time to go away TerryWallet... your opinions are blowhard trolling posts and are not wanted on this board.

 

[TerryWallet]

oh dear............

 

[The Cranium]

oh dear............

Take ya pick Wallet, one for ya mouth, you can use the others to fill ya pants....

 

[lopezz]

Let's get one thing straight, Pratt/Visy did not steal $700m of anyone's money. This is just a figure plucked out of the air by those thieving hyenas at Slater & Gordon when they were trying to drum some reward based business called a "class action" for people that were supposedly disadvantaged by the Visy/Amcor action.

Have a look at what Pratt said and, what has not been disproved - Amcor approached Visy about a price arrangement because they were being slaughtered by Visy in the market. Visy agreed and then went on doing exactly what they had been doing, undercutting Amcor's price. Pratt's testimony (again not challenged) was that prices actually fell or did not rise as much as they would have during this period because of Visy's aggressive market approach.

Also, if those hyenas at Slater & Gordron had such a wonderful case, then why haven't they proceeded with a class action. That is because there is nothing for them to chase.

Finally, why did Amcor get off scott free just because they were caught with their hand in the till and rolled over and put their legs in the air. The fact of the matter is that Pratt and Samuel have some history and Samuel has been waiting for some time to have a crack at DP.

He finally found something that he could go to the papers with and Pratt accepted that that had done the wrong thing (in principle) and copped a wack. Since then Samuel has been running around saying "look at me look at me aren't I wonderful" when he actually did bugger all other than work on the paperwork provide by Amcor.

As an Investatigive Organisation the ACCC is a joke and so is Samuel.

It's on this argument that people like Fatprick have been carrying on about DP without ever bothering to check the facts.

Finally, Visy accepted that they had done the wrong thing, copped a fine and have moved on. So should Smith and everybody else.

One of the most thought out and informative posts!!

Hope you don't mind, but i'm keeping it in the archives!! Finally a person who has done research on the subject I have yet to see a rational argument, based on the facts of proceedings in support of Pratt's removal.

I must admit that i'm more worried bout what the government steals from me each week in tax cos i chose to smoke and drink!! Tax has increased the price of a $2.50 pack ten years ago into an $11.00 pack today!! Now Visy don't make the packaging for smokes!!
I don't care bout the shit load of boxes i have to crush and throw out each week or the multi-national companies that pay for them. I don't recall ever being passed on a box fee, and have never received a product increase based on above average box prices!
But most of all, i don't give a Ratt's a** that Pratt had control of the packaging pricing of companies owned by people like Lindsy Fox and Rupert Murdoch!!

 

[TerryWallet]

Blind parochialism is something that has always intrigued me and something i will never understand.

*Some* carlton supporters will defend Pratt till the death no matter what he did because....he is OURS

its like *some* Indians will support Harbijan till the death because...he is OURS

its like *some* Americans will support Bush till the death because...he is OURS.


people should be treated on their merits and actions , irrespective of parochialism.

Pratt has been terrific for Carlton.

BUT

What he did was reprehensible and the AFL should not tolerate him as one of its 16 presidents.

It is the people's game. The same people Pratt defrauded.

People are so ignorant and apathetic of white collar crime. If he held up a bank for $200,000 i wonder if peoples reactions would be different.

 

[mediumsizered]

Blind parochialism is something that has always intrigued me and something i will never understand.

*Some* carlton supporters will defend Pratt till the death no matter what he did because....he is OURS

its like *some* Indians will support Harbijan till the death because...he is OURS

its like *some* Americans will support Bush till the death because...he is OURS.


people should be treated on their merits and actions , irrespective of parochialism.

Pratt has been terrific for Carlton.

BUT

What he did was reprehensible and the AFL should not tolerate him as one of its 16 presidents.

It is the people's game. The same people Pratt defrauded.

People are so ignorant and apathetic of white collar crime. If he held up a bank for $200,000 i wonder if peoples reactions would be different.

If in your opinion the AFL shouldn't tolerate Pratt, how about other AFL presidents that have been involved in what you would consider less than acceptable behaviour? Pratt isn't the only one that has been fined for breaches involving a company, just for starters. We could lose a number of club presidents if the AFL followed your wishes.

Then we could start on the players who have been charged with & found guilty of criminal offences. I'm not sure it is appropriate to have a player running around in the AFL who was found guilty of being in possession of stolen prescription pads. Nor am I happy for a wife basher to be running around. Then of course there is the player who urinated on a croupier & who was also more recently involved in a brawl in a South Melbourne pub. What of a player who was caught driving at 78km above the speed limit? No-one seemed concerned about the ex-Carlton star performing official duties at another AFL club, despite his well known history of substance abuse & less than savoury associates. I could go on, but I think I have made my point. If Richard Pratt has to go, there should be a lot more players & officials go with him.

FWIW, a bank robbery is a lot different to price-fixing. You don't get held at gunpoint, by a drug-crazed nutter, when a couple of cardboard manufacturers decided to collude. I doubt anyone would know when they are the victim of price-fixing, whereas the poor bank employee knows exactly when he/she has been a victim of a bank robbery & in many cases never fully recovers from the traumatic experience.

 

[sherb]

Blind parochialism is something that has always intrigued me and something i will never understand.

*Some* carlton supporters will defend Pratt till the death no matter what he did because....he is OURS

its like *some* Indians will support Harbijan till the death because...he is OURS

its like *some* Americans will support Bush till the death because...he is OURS.


people should be treated on their merits and actions , irrespective of parochialism.

Pratt has been terrific for Carlton.

BUT

What he did was reprehensible and the AFL should not tolerate him as one of its 16 presidents.

It is the people's game. The same people Pratt defrauded.

People are so ignorant and apathetic of white collar crime. If he held up a bank for $200,000 i wonder if peoples reactions would be different.

So where is the proof regarding your statement that Pratt and his mates stole $700 million?

 

[avid blue supporter]

As President he sets the example. Simple fact of life.

It is not just a matter for the courts and thats the end of it. By that logic, you could have Carey or Ablett as your President. By that logic, you could have Vizard as president. By that logic, you could have Chopper Reid as president.

You can have all the gratitude you like for what Pratt has done for Carlton but the simple fact of life is he has been found guilty of the biggest cartel in our history. And contrary to the case made a few posts back , that IS stealing OUR money....and in massive quantitys.

I state again, if Pratt is allowed to go unpunished at the football level, then it is open slather. You cannot punish ANYBODY. If that is the precedent the AFL or Carlton want to set, then fine. If not, then he must GO.

simple.

I am sure that if it was someone of a lesser stature, like Rod Butterrs or Ray Horsburgh etc, they would be long gone.

Pratt has done a lot of good for Carlton, but what he did was inexcuseable and he should GO.

Now.

You are a complete and utter sanctamoneous flowering d*ckhead carrying on like you are. Why don't you get a life. Visy, not DP (although it is accepted that DP is Visy) accepted that there had been some wrong doing, got landed with a penalty, paid the fine and moved on.

Life moves on but sometimes people like you just can not let it go can you?

You remind me of all these clowns that get around now trying to blame everyone else for their stupid behaviour rather than accepting that their own actions caused the problem. They will not accept responsibilty for their own action - is that you?

Why don't you accept that a wrong and illegal business decision was made, a penalty was applied, accepted and paid. Life and business moves on.

If you can't accept that, then I feel very sorry for you. Just accept that things happen and people who make errors and mistakes should have the right and opportunity to move on and make amends where they can.

This should not prevent them from being part of other areas of life.

If you can't do or accept this , then I pity you.

 

[TerryWallet]

medium,

things should be judged on their merits. If Pratts offence was trivial, then he gets dealt with and we move on. But it wasn't trivial. If any other president was found guilty of what Pratt was then i would argue that he should go too.

players are players. they get up to the antics that young men do. If they cross the line of acceptability though, the AFL steps in.

Pratt is one of the 16 figureheads of the AFL. what he did is unnacceptable and the AFL should step in.

Otherwise they are pissing into the wind with this recreational drug stuff and betting stuff and should just let everyone run their own race.

They can't pick and choose misdemeanours.

I disagree with you on your opinion of white collar crime.

 

[Donstuie]

Back on-topic, Swann also cut KB off about Judd and made it clear that Richmond were NEVER in the picture to pick him up

 

[TerryWallet]

So where is the proof regarding your statement that Pratt and his mates stole $700 million?

Sherb,

the proof of his guilt is in his guilty plea.

lets not get into semantics about how many hundreds of millions of dollars he illegally skimmed.

400?...500?...600?....700?....a billion

 

[sherb]

Sherb,

the proof of his guilt is in his guilty plea.

lets not get into semantics about how many hundreds of millions of dollars he illegally skimmed.

400?...500?...600?....700?....a billion

So you state something as fact and then when challenged can't back it up. What a surprise.

You have no idea what amount was involved, as can no-one for that matter. Why? Because you would have to know what would have happened in the market if the collusion had not occurred - which is alternative timeline stuff. For all we know it could have been very little.

The bottom line here is that you posted a fabrication as fact in order to push your agenda. Poor form.

 

[TerryWallet]

Avid Blue,

i have all the sympathy and forgiveness in the world for people in tough times or tough situations who make mistakesand bad decisions.....if you knew me you'd know this to be true.

i don't have sympathy for greedy billionaires who knowingly steal hundreds of millions off US. He knew exactly what he was doing and he did it because of greed.

 

[Donstuie]

Guys, I think we're all missing the big picture here.

Patrick Smith getting owned and KB getting humiliated by Swann on his own show

Let's put things in perspective here!