Autopsy Practice Match: Sydney Swans vs Brisbane Lions 24th Feb @ 12pm Tramway Oval on Foxtel

[rustycrate]

I kinda get ShireSwan's (admittedly harsh) perspective but I think Punts has made the point more effectively in the past. There's enormous hype and expectations around McDonald but it has to turn into results. Doesn't have to become an All Australian forward as a 21 year old, but start putting in more decent games than bad games, because I think to date that ratio would be the wrong way around.

Considering how much McLean & Amartey have copped it in the past when they were also young, developing forwards people didn't have much faith in, McDonald seems to get a pass because he's so "talented." Well OK, but that means nothing if he doesn't actually show it.

As of right now I think McDonald is just about our most overrated player, and it's not even his fault, it's the fans.

You have compared McDonald's lack of progression to Campbell's, not me.

There was enormous hype around Campbell, a mid. Pick 5. A position where players can star in their first year. Has according to Punts and a lot of others, not lived up to expectations. There was enormous hype around McDonald. Could have gone Pick 1.

Let us look at your post, which to me, is one of your worst on record.(By the way I reckon you as the most prolific and most responded to, and did I say prolific, poster have so much respect on here). Not with this post. I like your posts. But this one is like you slipped over making your eggs this morning, bumped your head and an idiotic post just spurted out.

Lets us look at your post. I will dissect every word.

Part 1.
I kinda get ShireSwan's (admittedly harsh) perspective but I think Punts has made the point more effectively in the past.
Punts shoots from the hip. Last year wanted us to sign the Package. Turned up at preseason training unfit. Enough said.

Part 2.
There's enormous hype and expectations around McDonald but it has to turn into results. Doesn't have to become an All Australian forward as a 21 year old, but start putting in more decent games than bad games, because I think to date that ratio would be the wrong way around.
Full forwards take a lot of time to develop. As I have said in a previous post, it took Hawkins until about the age of 24ish to become a star. Full forward is a brutal game. You and your mate Punts expect mature results from a 21 year old? Crazy stuff. Lofty expectations indeed from someone I thought was one of the best posters on this forum.

Part 3.
Considering how much McLean & Amartey have copped it in the past when they were also young, developing forwards people didn't have much faith in, McDonald seems to get a pass because he's so "talented." Well OK, but that means nothing if he doesn't actually show it.
He is 2 years younger than them. And yet you are comparing his results to theirs. Enough said.

Part 4.
As of right now I think McDonald is just about our most overrated player, and it's not even his fault, it's the fans.
Young forwards take time. It seems in your and Punts mind that 21 year old full forwards have to be kicking 50 goals to be a pass.


Your most stupid post.

 

[caesar88]

You have compared McDonald's lack of progression to Campbell's, not me.

There was enormous hype around Campbell, a mid. Pick 5. A position where players can star in their first year. Has according to Punts and a lot of others, not lived up to expectations. There was enormous hype around McDonald. Could have gone Pick 1.

Let us look at your post, which to me, is one of your worst on record.(By the way I reckon you as the most prolific and most responded to, and did I say prolific, poster have so much respect on here). Not with this post. I like your posts. But this one is like you slipped over making your eggs this morning, bumped your head and an idiotic post just spurted out.

Lets us look at your post. I will dissect every word.

Part 1.
I kinda get ShireSwan's (admittedly harsh) perspective but I think Punts has made the point more effectively in the past.
Punts shoots from the hip. Last year wanted us to sign the Package. Turned up at preseason training unfit. Enough said.

Part 2.
There's enormous hype and expectations around McDonald but it has to turn into results. Doesn't have to become an All Australian forward as a 21 year old, but start putting in more decent games than bad games, because I think to date that ratio would be the wrong way around.
Full forwards take a lot of time to develop. As I have said in a previous post, it took Hawkins until about the age of 24ish to become a star. Full forward is a brutal game. You and your mate Punts expect mature results from a 21 year old? Crazy stuff. Lofty expectations indeed from someone I thought was one of the best posters on this forum.

Part 3.
Considering how much McLean & Amartey have copped it in the past when they were also young, developing forwards people didn't have much faith in, McDonald seems to get a pass because he's so "talented." Well OK, but that means nothing if he doesn't actually show it.
He is 2 years younger than them. And yet you are comparing his results to theirs. Enough said.

Part 4.
As of right now I think McDonald is just about our most overrated player, and it's not even his fault, it's the fans.
Young forwards take time. It seems in your and Punts mind that 21 year old full forwards have to be kicking 50 goals to be a pass.


Your most stupid post.

You've seemingly just completely misunderstood nearly every one of my comments you've highlighted there.

If you think Punts & I agree on much then you obviously haven't been paying much attention over the years LOL. But I do think Punts has been spot on in regards to simply tempering expectations on McDonald until he actually warrants it with his performances.

You've then said that I expect McDonald to be a star, even as you literally quoted me saying "Doesn't have to become an All Australian forward at 21." You later say that I expect McDonald to be kicking 50 goals in a season when nowhere have I ever said that. I said he needs to start having "more decent games than bad games". And I think that is completely fair enough? It's what most of our other youngsters have done.

I also never mentioned Campbell anywhere, so not sure where you got that comparison from.

Love that you're going into bat for a player you like but geez you've gone a bit HAM on the criticism there rusty, and I think it's a bit unwarranted.

 

[bedford]

One of the best, THE most effective full forwards currently running around now, Hawkins, was not much good until 24-25 years old. To be a Swans supporter and deriding a very promising young player, playing in one of the most difficult positions, speaks to the credibility of people making assertions about that player.

You hit the nail on the head there

 

[Dubai Quacker]

I kinda get ShireSwan's (admittedly harsh) perspective but I think Punts has made the point more effectively in the past. There's enormous hype and expectations around McDonald but it has to turn into results. Doesn't have to become an All Australian forward as a 21 year old, but start putting in more decent games than bad games, because I think to date that ratio would be the wrong way around.

Considering how much McLean & Amartey have copped it in the past when they were also young, developing forwards people didn't have much faith in, McDonald seems to get a pass because he's so "talented." Well OK, but that means nothing if he doesn't actually show it.

As of right now I think McDonald is just about our most overrated player, and it's not even his fault, it's the fans.

I think aside from his draft position, high hopes are held for Logan because he ticks so many boxes:

• athletic - tick
• good kick - tick
• quick - tick
• good endurance - tick

Physical strength is still a work in progress - but that’s not unexpected.

And the constant focus on Buddy has made Logan a (very) secondary target.

Contrast with Armatey and McLean who appear inherently limited in certain aspects (McLean lacks athletic traits & Armatey just seems to fall a bit short in a number of areas) - I’m firmly of a view that Logan is the future of our forward line.

 

[rustycrate]

I think aside from his draft position, high hopes are held for Logan because he ticks so many boxes:

• athletic - tick
• good kick - tick
• quick - tick
• good endurance - tick

Physical strength is still a work in progress - but that’s not unexpected.

And the constant focus on Buddy has made Logan a (very) secondary target.

Contrast with Armatey and McLean who appear inherently limited in certain aspects (McLean lacks athletic traits & Armatey just seems to fall a bit short in a number of areas) - I’m firmly of a view that Logan is the future of our forward line.

All he needs is patience, training, and game time. He will be very very good.

 

[caesar88]

I think aside from his draft position, high hopes are held for Logan because he ticks so many boxes:

• athletic - tick
• good kick - tick
• quick - tick
• good endurance - tick

Physical strength is still a work in progress - but that’s not unexpected.

And the constant focus on Buddy has made Logan a (very) secondary target.

Contrast with Armatey and McLean who appear inherently limited in certain aspects (McLean lacks athletic traits & Armatey just seems to fall a bit short in a number of areas) - I’m firmly of a view that Logan is the future of our forward line.

But every player we draft will have good attributes. They need to actually translate into games and bring them together in complete performances. McDonald hasn't done this in the majority of his games, so surely you can understand why some still see him as speculative?

I am always optimistic when it comes to young players and I see plenty of potential in McDonald, but he's not a sure thing for me yet.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

But every player we draft will have good attributes. They need to actually translate into games and bring them together in complete performances. McDonald hasn't done this in the majority of his games, so surely you can understand why some still see him as speculative?

I am always optimistic when it comes to young players and I see plenty of potential in McDonald, but he's not a sure thing for me yet.

I agree he’s not a sure thing.

But I do still see Logan as the best chance we have among the current crop.

The true test won’t come until Buddy is out of the equation.

 

[caesar88]

I agree he’s not a sure thing.

But I do still see Logan as the best chance we have among the current crop.

The true test won’t come until Buddy is out of the equation.

Agree on all of those.

 

[rustycrate]

I agree he’s not a sure thing.

But I do still see Logan as the best chance we have among the current crop.

The true test won’t come until Buddy is out of the equation.

The truest test will not come until even after he is out of the equation. Lots on here think Buddy centric was a hindrance to McDonald. There may be some logic and justice to this but McDonald is just a kid. He was afforded protection with Buddy around. When Buddy goes that will not be there. Sure he will get focus but from opposition as well as teammates.

It is a difficult position to play. He needs patience from us all. He will not hit his prime for a few years yet. When he is 24+ then I will judge him.

 

[caesar88]

On the AFL site, they have 'Every team's best play from the match sims', and ours is at the 0.00 mark of the first term. All went downhill from there LOL

 

[Bloods86]

You have compared McDonald's lack of progression to Campbell's, not me.

There was enormous hype around Campbell, a mid. Pick 5. A position where players can star in their first year. Has according to Punts and a lot of others, not lived up to expectations. There was enormous hype around McDonald. Could have gone Pick 1.

Let us look at your post, which to me, is one of your worst on record.(By the way I reckon you as the most prolific and most responded to, and did I say prolific, poster have so much respect on here). Not with this post. I like your posts. But this one is like you slipped over making your eggs this morning, bumped your head and an idiotic post just spurted out.

Lets us look at your post. I will dissect every word.

Part 1.
I kinda get ShireSwan's (admittedly harsh) perspective but I think Punts has made the point more effectively in the past.
Punts shoots from the hip. Last year wanted us to sign the Package. Turned up at preseason training unfit. Enough said.

Part 2.
There's enormous hype and expectations around McDonald but it has to turn into results. Doesn't have to become an All Australian forward as a 21 year old, but start putting in more decent games than bad games, because I think to date that ratio would be the wrong way around.
Full forwards take a lot of time to develop. As I have said in a previous post, it took Hawkins until about the age of 24ish to become a star. Full forward is a brutal game. You and your mate Punts expect mature results from a 21 year old? Crazy stuff. Lofty expectations indeed from someone I thought was one of the best posters on this forum.

Part 3.
Considering how much McLean & Amartey have copped it in the past when they were also young, developing forwards people didn't have much faith in, McDonald seems to get a pass because he's so "talented." Well OK, but that means nothing if he doesn't actually show it.
He is 2 years younger than them. And yet you are comparing his results to theirs. Enough said.

Part 4.
As of right now I think McDonald is just about our most overrated player, and it's not even his fault, it's the fans.
Young forwards take time. It seems in your and Punts mind that 21 year old full forwards have to be kicking 50 goals to be a pass.


Your most stupid post.

I'm not sure what you dissected there, but it wasn't the post you were quoting.

 

[Tedeski]

I've seen 2 flags after 3 quarters of my life believing i'd never see 1

I said exactly that walking to the G on GF day.
Walking back to the car after that 82 point drubbing has somehow left a bad taste Bedders.
Only one thing will change that, but apart from Warner, I can't see any ticker in this group.
None of them looked as hurt as JPK after 2016 loss, other than Warner.

Just my opinion.

 

[HighReeve]

Hawkins was definitely considered a star before the age of 24.

2011 GF..
Took 350 or so marks across the 2009-10-11 seasons from 58 games.
Best and fairest and all-australian

McDonald start putting in more decent games than bad games, because I think to date that ratio would be the wrong way around.

Yeah, it's not tho.

 

[Tedeski]

Add that Amartey & McLean are also nursing injuries also & we have a shortage of ruckmen. Was hopng to see Owen also get a run but I ddnt see him.

As for McAndrew, he did well & could provide cover if Ladhams plays & needs assistance. Problem is that the Swans also tend not to play two ruckmen.

I think Ladhams is available after serving three matches already with the GF being the third. He didn't play the VFL final, the AFL Prelim & the AFL GF.

Sinclair can do a Mummy.

 

[melbournehammer]

Interesting debate. Can I add my contribution ?

McDonald could very easily go the way of Lewis Johnson. Both of them have good hands and a pretty accurate kick. This is important in the first 25 games of your career where you get limited opportunities and you have to make the most of them.

But like Johnston before him he lacks a couple of yards of pace at afl level - hes not quick enough to get separation. Hes definitely more athletic than mclean - who clearly can work all day but cant get near the ball or player if it gets to ground. Hes incredibly team oriented - he goes with natural handballs to support in a way that Johnston couldnt from what i saw of him.

But what is his mechanism for actually getting the ball at afl level ? Hes going to either have to work exceptionally hard or become incredibly strong, or learn how to lead in a way through the congestion of an afl system where wingers peel back into space.

Id say the jury is out on him currently as remotely likely to be a roughhead level player. But it also is with sam darcy and jamarra ugle hagan joe daniher rory lobb

7

Rory Lobb

Age

31

Ht

207cm

Wt

106kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

4.4

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.4

4star

G

0.9

4star

D

11.3

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

3.3

2star

M

4.6

4star

T

1.4

2star

G

1.0

4star

D

7.0

2star

K

4.0

2star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.6

3star

jesse hogan

23

Jesse Hogan

Age

29

Ht

196cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.0

4star

K

9.3

4star

HB

5.7

4star

M

6.4

5star

T

1.4

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

10.3

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

4.3

3star

M

5.3

5star

T

0.0

1star

G

0.0

1star

D

13.0

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

4.0

3star

M

6.4

5star

T

1.4

4star

G

1.8

5star

and sundry others. Tall forward has become an impossible position to play well.

So I'd prefer to have him and hope he can kick his 30 goals a season and be involved in another 30 than have him somewhere else but my expectations arent much higher than that

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

I like your posts. But this one is like you slipped over making your eggs this morning, bumped your head and an idiotic post just spurted out.

Love that you're going into bat for a player you like but geez you've gone a bit HAM on the criticism there rusty, and I think it's a bit unwarranted.

Did someone say EGG and HAM toastie?

 

[Bloods86]

I said exactly that walking to the G on GF day.
Walking back to the car after that 82 point drubbing has somehow left a bad taste Bedders.
Only one thing will change that, but apart from Warner, I can't see any ticker in this group.
None of them looked as hurt as JPK after 2016 loss, other than Warner.

Just my opinion.

Yeah they looked absolutely stoked after the match, Rampe was particularly upbeat in his speech.

Pretty basic concept that people process pain differently.

 

[Membling]

I will put my hat in on the McDonald debate.

If he gets a consistent run of 15-20 matches, I reckon he has 35 goals in him this year.

Over a 1.5 goal a game average

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

McDonald is an interesting one. I think we will all watch his year with interest.

I agree that we need to be patient, he could still become anything - good, bad or in between.

If I had to guess as the moment, I’d predict that he will become a really solid contributor but never become a focal point like Buddy, Hawkins, etc.

I’m perfectly comfortable with this. I’d prefer a mix contributors. I think this is both better for team performance and more enjoyable to watch as a supporter.

 

[Tedeski]

Yeah they looked absolutely stoked after the match, Rampe was particularly upbeat in his speech.

Pretty basic concept that people process pain differently.

What about during the match?

 

[caesar88]

What about during the match?

Are you going to sit here and say that Robbie Fox had no ticker in the GF?

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Sinclair can do a Mummy.

Mumford un-retiring again might be more likely.

I still don’t quite know why Brayden Crossley isn’t on a list (ideally, ours) - surely it can only be attitude. He’s only 23 and absolutely destroyed us in the VFL last year.

 

[Bloods86]

What about during the match?

Don't change the goalposts, you referenced post-match displays.

What about in the other matches to get to the grand final, no ticker from anyone but Warner? Is that what you're saying?

 

[Tedeski]

Don't change the goalposts, you referenced post-match displays.

What about in the other matches to get to the grand final, no ticker from anyone but Warner? Is that what you're saying?

Well no one looked as dejected as JPK because he gave his all that day & Warner was perhaps the closest to that.
Well unfortunately they will be judged on their last effort. You of course can choose not to do that but I think it's only fair.
Practice match or not, last week against Brisbane followed what I am saying may be the new pattern which is showing glimpses of no ticker.

These guys are not even close to having the ticker we had from the group of 2005/2006 era.
We are the new "Ferrari's" that Kirky used to refer to. Look good on the outside but when we look deep.....................anyway let's just see.

 

[Tedeski]

This guy?

Former Gold Coast ruckman Brayden Crossley accepts 12-month anti-doping ban

Former Gold Coast ruckman accepts 12-month anti-doping ban

www.foxsports.com.au

Yeah let's get him to our club.