A Section Premier 2016

[Canada]

Everyone has injuries, absentees and players at VFL. You just play who you have and offer zero excuses. Always the same.

 

[BrianSpeaking]

Everyone has injuries, absentees and players at VFL. You just play who you have and offer zero excuses. Always the same.

Agree Canada. OX are a great club, they were the better team yesterday and thoroughly deserved their victory. We aspire to be as good as they are and have been working very diligently to stay in Premier this year. That is our goal as I have always stated.

Chopper Handley is a superstar, both as a player and bloke, I have a man crush for him.

 

[DoubleDraw]

Speaking about the quality of VAFA Premier football, would be interested to know what the standard is like in SA Amateur football.

Jas,i can tell you're aware of the upcoming state game.I wouldn't be too worried-I honestly believe that if the VAFA picked their absolute best 22 they would win by 100(pts) minimum.SA are unfortunately a pale imitation of what they were during their heyday(69-77).

 

[BrianSpeaking]

This illustrates the point I've been making (perhaps ineloquently) in recent weeks.

VAFA footy is prone to significant changes in playing personnel and club culture from season to season.

Looking at teams "on paper" can be unhelpful as it is rather superficial to presume a moderately successful club in one season needs to have recruits/additions in order to improve.

Conversely, the mere fact a successful club attracts new players (from higher leagues particularly) doesn't mean successes inevitable. What really counts is the players' motivation for joining the club.

Using De La as an example. Williams and Rayson return having played solid VFL footy (in previous years). As far as I'm aware, they are returning to their original VAFA club to play for that club, as opposed to with a couple of mates. It doesn't matter who is in the 22 that runs out, these type of guys will crack in 100% all day long.

Subconsciously or not, in my opinion, the players who come across with no prior playing connection, but are there to "play with their mates", could be a shade flat if/when a mate, or several mates, are not running out in that 22 (due to work/injury/absence). It's just not quite as enjoyable, and thus even though they are genuinely there to play their best, internally it can be harder to motivate yourself.

There are obviously other factors at play, but I still believe clubs investing and trusting in their home grown emerging talent will be a more prudent means of establishing consistent output and long term sustained success.

It seemed to work well for the Snowdogs last year, and is working against them this year with their list of departures.

Interesting that Cartledge pulled the plug last week and moved to Qld, on top of Jones and Merrington reitiring, so their big man stocks have taken a massive hit. Is that because they weren't St Bernards through and through? Hard to know but IMO you can't beat class, regardless of where it has come from.

I also hear their skipper Caven did his ACL yesterday, can anyone from the Snowdogs confirm or deny?

 

[AM]

This illustrates the point I've been making (perhaps ineloquently) in recent weeks.

VAFA footy is prone to significant changes in playing personnel and club culture from season to season.

Looking at teams "on paper" can be unhelpful as it is rather superficial to presume a moderately successful club in one season needs to have recruits/additions in order to improve.

Conversely, the mere fact a successful club attracts new players (from higher leagues particularly) doesn't mean successes inevitable. What really counts is the players' motivation for joining the club.

Using De La as an example. Williams and Rayson return having played solid VFL footy (in previous years). As far as I'm aware, they are returning to their original VAFA club to play for that club, as opposed to with a couple of mates. It doesn't matter who is in the 22 that runs out, these type of guys will crack in 100% all day long.

Subconsciously or not, in my opinion, the players who come across with no prior playing connection, but are there to "play with their mates", could be a shade flat if/when a mate, or several mates, are not running out in that 22 (due to work/injury/absence). It's just not quite as enjoyable, and thus even though they are genuinely there to play their best, internally it can be harder to motivate yourself.

There are obviously other factors at play, but I still believe clubs investing and trusting in their home grown emerging talent will be a more prudent means of establishing consistent output and long term sustained success.

Hear, hear oh wise one.

 

[AM]

Press coverage of the Snowdogs v hedgeburners (can't resist Scribe!) game.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/...y/news-story/b2265762d5441d779c1e6928ee705a4f

 

[Canada]

It also doesn't matter where you get players from. From the school, a mate of a mate, a gun who you can get down. All school clubs have most players that are from the school anyway. Whether it is 60 or 90% is not something to hang your hat on for or against. All of them build predominantly from within. Some widen the net and benefit greatly. We are all the same inside. If you are part of that club you do it better than others. Oh yeah..we all do. Go us!

 

[Penski]

Usually when BS begins going for the injury excuse we collectively just roll our eyes, but SKOBs are the only side to have already played over 30 players through the seniors. No surprise that Bernies are around 29 as well.
Can't see SKOBS near the bottom come the pointy end of the season (as long as they get everyone back).

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

[AM]

Refreshing to see the sides making up the final four as we speak have predominantly not gone the buy-in route. Particularly pleased for OMs who were widely panned by many of the pundits here.

 

[Bell Ringer]

This illustrates the point I've been making (perhaps ineloquently) in recent weeks.

VAFA footy is prone to significant changes in playing personnel and club culture from season to season.

Looking at teams "on paper" can be unhelpful as it is rather superficial to presume a moderately successful club in one season needs to have recruits/additions in order to improve.

Conversely, the mere fact a successful club attracts new players (from higher leagues particularly) doesn't mean successes inevitable. What really counts is the players' motivation for joining the club.

Using De La as an example. Williams and Rayson return having played solid VFL footy (in previous years). As far as I'm aware, they are returning to their original VAFA club to play for that club, as opposed to with a couple of mates. It doesn't matter who is in the 22 that runs out, these type of guys will crack in 100% all day long.

Subconsciously or not, in my opinion, the players who come across with no prior playing connection, but are there to "play with their mates", could be a shade flat if/when a mate, or several mates, are not running out in that 22 (due to work/injury/absence). It's just not quite as enjoyable, and thus even though they are genuinely there to play their best, internally it can be harder to motivate yourself.

There are obviously other factors at play, but I still believe clubs investing and trusting in their home grown emerging talent will be a more prudent means of establishing consistent output and long term sustained success.

Rayson's original VAFA club was Hampton Rovers.

 

[Penski]

Does anyone have an idea of how the 'points' totals have been for teams each week? That will give you the real picture of who's got the most 'home grown' talent.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

[Rooster 24]

Rayson's original VAFA club was Hampton Rovers.

Did he ever play a senior VAFA game for Hampton Rovers? Might have played juniors there (I thought it was East Brighton) or U19s but went to school at De La Salle and played there before going to Coburg.

 

[Max Leader]

He never played a VAFA game for Hampton Rovers. Might have played juniors there (I thought it was East Brighton) but went to school at De La Salle and played there before going to Coburg.

When we played

De La, we were always hopeful the Cobyrg didn't have a bye.

He can't be a young man. I would say early 30's.

Max "loved playing at the Dairy Dell" Leader

 

[Rooster 24]

When we played

De La, we were always hopeful the Cobyrg didn't have a bye.

He can't be a young man. I would say early 30's.

Max "loved playing at the Dairy Dell" Leader

Has just turned 30 I believe Max. Missed all of 2014 and a fair bit of 2015 following a reco so still got a few years left in him. When he became entrenched at senior VFL level Coburg stopped releasing him altogether. Seems most VFL club do that now and once established they prefer they take a week off than turn our for their local club

Speaking of VFL players, Kenny Ong turned out for Collegians against De La Saturday. Absolute jet. Was squeezed out due to the number of St Kilda players available and Sandy Development League have had 2 byes in a row. Would be a handy addition to the Lions if and when he calls time at Sandy.

 

[Canada]

Having a home grown player or someone who didn't attend the school playing for you makes zero difference. This obsession with it being better to have guys who attended the school is ridiculous.
Don't know how some of you guys would go following a suburban or Uni team.

 

[heslop]

Having a home grown player or someone who didn't attend the school playing for you makes zero difference. This obsession with it being better to have guys who attended the school is ridiculous.
Don't know how some of you guys would go following a suburban or Uni team.

I agree, homegrown talent is the biggest crap on of all time
that basically means all district clubs would basically cease to exist

 

[Canada]

I agree, homegrown talent is the biggest crap on of all time
that basically means all district clubs would basically cease to exist

Yep. It's elitist tripe. Just because his dad had a high paying job and he went to the school...send him down. And don't say that there will be more buy in with playing with mates. A stranger is a just good bloke you haven't met yet.

 

[Rooster 24]

Having a home grown player or someone who didn't attend the school playing for you makes zero difference. This obsession with it being better to have guys who attended the school is ridiculous.
Don't know how some of you guys would go following a suburban or Uni team.

I have played at and followed suburban teams (still do) and the same applies – best recruiting ground is the junior affiliate (in the same way as the feeder school or Uni) as they are more invested in the place and more likely to be there for the long haul.

This does not mean that your affiliate juniors, school or uni is the only feeder. I am on the record as saying I wish my ammo club could attract a few more from outside the usual networks. However it still makes perfect sense and is entirely logical that the it remains the main point of recruitment as history shows they are more likely to stay beyond a few seasons. The attraction of playing with your mates, who you played juniors or went to school with is what defines the ammos, be that school, uni or district based. I am surprised you don't seem to understand that.

I had you pegged as someone who understood ammo football but if you think it has anything to do with elitism or your old man’s job then you just don’t get it.

 

[AM]

I agree, homegrown talent is the biggest crap on of all time
that basically means all district clubs would basically cease to exist

Firstly, many district clubs have amongst the best junior development programs in the VAFA. Ormond and Rovers are two prime examples.

Secondly, you clearly don't have the most basic understanding of what constitutes a buy in player in the context of the discussion.

 

[Canada]

No..you have no understanding that anyone can be as a good a buy in as anyone else in all interpretations of buying in.

 

[Canada]

And secondly...discussing district club junior development has nothing to do with it.

 

[Rooster 24]

No..you have no understanding that anyone can be as a good a buy in as anyone else in all interpretations of buying in.

Surely you are in tune with what is happening in other competitions? Players hopping from club to club have all but destroyed some metro and country leagues with clubs falling over or merging at a rate never seen before. In many leagues its about who has the biggest cheque book with loyalty a thing of the past (Macleod in the NFL a notable exception). Some of the GF winning margins last year were ridiculous.

I still believe the VAFA model defines us from these other competitions and whether you accept it or not the lure of playing with mates (from your junior club or school) is what sets us apart. If you are an old boys club and most of your players are from outside the school network then you are in deep trouble in the same way as a club like Beaumaris, Ormond, Hampton Rovers etc rely heavily on their junior affiliate.

I’m sure you don’t need a lesson in the hierarchy of schools in Victoria but with all due respect to my old school, De La, St Bedes, St Bernards and a few others are hardly ‘elite’. If you were at TP the other Saturday night you would have heard your mates from Xavier regularly reminding us of that very fact as they like to do each time we play them !

Please don’t misconstrue this as meaning VAFA clubs are a closed shop. Of course they are not and nor should they be but we have school, Uni and junior alignments for a very good reason. Otherwise we might as well give it away or jump into one of the paying comp and fight it out like the rest.

Of course outsiders can buy in and nobody is suggesting they cannot. Most do and do it well however the reality is they are far more likely to also ‘buy out’ again.

 

[Canada]

In my recollection some of the greatest buy ins have never then gone the buy out. I think you are all generalising.
Whose to say Gysberts for example won't play for a few years, drag down mates and go on to be a coach of the club in 2020?
Open the doors and embrace all.

 

[Rooster 24]

In my recollection some of the greatest buy ins have never then gone the buy out. I think you are all generalising.
Whose to say Gysberts for example won't play for a few years, drag down mates and go on to be a coach of the club in 2020?
Open the doors and embrace all.

Nobody is saying he won’t. But if I were a betting man I would suggest that there are numerous others at that club who stand a far greater chance of doing what you suggest then he does. And it would seem that the generalisation is well and truly going both ways.

We are poles apart on this one. Nothing wrong with healthy debate however it seems I am not able to influence your views and you sure as hell wont change mine. As such we perhaps should agree to disagree and move on.

 

[Scribe]

In my recollection some of the greatest buy ins have never then gone the buy out. I think you are all generalising.
Whose to say Gysberts for example won't play for a few years, drag down mates and go on to be a coach of the club in 2020?
Open the doors and embrace all.

Well hopefully lightning doesn't strike twice. I know a few players/officials involved at the Norwood FC (EFL) which was his junior club. He returned there in 2014 after finishing up at the Kangaroos and they understood he was in for the long haul there.

Fair to say they weren't impressed when he walked out the door at the end of one season.

Don't shoot the messenger.